9/11 - Where Were You ?

Just got my first office job, and it was in sales in Purley, was sat at my desk reading up on stuff, and the tv in our department showed the 2nd plane hitting

We all watched in horror

metro, you have not responded to the point of the the phone call being made at 9.58 and the plane crashed at 10.03
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Point 1 - you asking people to address points after failing to address those put to you. You suggested the explosion may have been a trolly

Secondly - without knowing the type of missile and the point and location of impact, it would be futile to debate the time it lasted in the air
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metro,

point 1-we know from the transcript and from the families of the victim and the operator who took the call know that he didn't mention smoke and an explosion.

point 2-you can't answer. you have claimed that the missile caused debris to scatter. well this would have caused depressurisation...it's didn't happen.

so in conclusion the claim of white smoke and explosion didn't happen, no debris over the flight path, the cockpit recorder transcript at 10.01 "shall we put it down". the cabin not being depressurised. last but not least Cleveland notified North East Air Defence Sector (NEADS) about flight 93 at 10.07 four minutes AFTER the plane had crashed! How could it shoot down a plane that it had not been reported until after the crash....END OF STORY!

point 1-we know from the transcript and from the families of the victim and the operator who took the call know that he didn't mention smoke and an explosion.
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He did and i provided evidence of this being reported. The story changes as the years have gone by. I'd expect that.

point 2-you can't answer. you have claimed that the missile caused debris to scatter. well this would have caused depressurisation...it's didn't happen.
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Like i said earlier, we don't know what was hit, where and at what altitude so your point is moot.

You said that the explosion may have been a trolly. That should have been your final comment. Now you're posting assumptions and quite frankly, wasting my time

Where was the furthest debris from the impact site and how far was it?

metro the operator and relatives claim he did not make that comment. NEADS did not receive notice about 93 from the command centre until after it had crashed. you made no reference to this

The FAA and NORAD both insist that no other plane was within 100 miles of Flight 93 when it crashed, yet numerous eyewitnesses reported seeing a small white military-looking jet in the vicinity of the crash site immediately following the plane’s demise. There were shoot-down orders given by President Bush after the third plane had struck the Pentagon. That this order was eventually given was confirmed by Vice President D Cheney, who told Meet the Press on NBC, September 16, 2001,“I wholeheartedly concurred in the decision he [Bush] made, that if the plane would not divert, if they wouldn’t pay any attention to the instructions to move away from the city, as a last resort our pilots were authorized to take them out.”

Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Defense Secretary, told The New York Times on September 15, 2001 that the Pentagon had been tracking Flight 93 and could have shot it down if necessary.

If indeed the plane was being tracked - as is confirmed by Cheney, Wolfowitz, and the eye-witness reports - then The FAA and NORAD are either lying about the vicinity of the next closest aircraft or are woefully incompetent.

Rumsfeld himself said it was shot down

We have a hole in the ground that looks different to all plane wrecks in aviation history

Debris spread over miles

Witness reports of falling debris

Witness reports of another jet in the sky which contradicts the official story

Confirmation of shoot down orders

FAA and NORAD contradicting witness reports

Passenger claiming that there had been an explosion

Cockpit recordings played to family members being different to that played at Zacari Moussaris trial.

Seismic reports contradicting the timing of the crash with that of the official story

... And you follow it up with 'could have been a trolly'

You my friend have been shot out of the sky on this very thread

TKO

And i suppose this man is lying as well according to you

http://youtu.be/LWcdSyyppHI

Passenger claiming that there had been an explosion
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incorrect. the operator claimed he did not speak those words. the victim's brother listened to the phone call and said he never said those words. the passenger did not hear an explosion.

metro debunked on that point

joely 1-0 metro

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Debris spread over miles
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already been discussed. keep up. it was south of the impact and not I repeat not over the flight path.

joely 2-0 metro
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Seismic reports contradicting the timing of the crash with that of the official story
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this is a big flaw in your "theory"

according to your theory based on seismic data the missile struck the plane at 10.03 and then plane crashed at 10.07. the phone call by ed felt was 9.58 and lasted 1 minute. so, in one moment you are claiming the missile strike happened before 9.59 am and now are trying to claim it happened at 10.03.....

which time did the missile strike metro? before 9.59 or 10.03? you can't have it both ways unless now you are stating 2 missiles were fired

joely 3-0 metro

FAA headquarters never notified NORAD, in Colorado, that Flight 93 was hijacked until after it crashed at 10:03a.m- you forget this!

based on the timeline of the day:

10:02: Communicators with the Vice President in the security bunker begin receiving reports from the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft — presumably hijacked — heading toward Washington. This is Flight 93.

joely 4-0 metro

in conclusion you can't explain the lack of debris over the flight path. the fact the phone operator who took the from ed felt and ed felt's brother actually confirmed that no explosion had occurred. you have contradicted yourself wrt seismic data and ed felt's phone call. your inability to explain the lack of despressurisation. the fact that the military were not told of the hijacking until after it had crashed.

also, the video the witness- he didn't see a missile hit the plane at all!

joely 5-0 metro

10:05 a.m.-10:08 a.m. September 11, 2001: NEADS Alerted to Flight 93, Reportedly for the First Time

The military liaison at the FAA’s Cleveland Center calls NORAD’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) and alerts it to the hijacked Flight 93. According to the 9/11 Commission, this is the first notification NEADS receives about Flight 93, but it comes too late, since the plane has already crashed (see (10:06 a.m.) September 11, 2001).

'Bomb on Board' Flight 93 - At 10:05 a.m., the military liaison at the Cleveland Center, who is unaware that Flight 93 has just crashed, calls NEADS to inform it that Flight 93 is heading toward Washington, DC. Even though communicating with NEADS is not one of his responsibilities, he wants to make sure it is in the loop. At NEADS, the call is answered by Tech Sergeant Shelley Watson. Shortly into the call, at 10:07, the military liaison tells her: “We got a United 93 out here. Are you aware of that?” He continues, “That has a bomb on board.” Watson asks: “A bomb on board? And this is confirmed? You have a mode three [beacon code], sir?” The military liaison replies, “No, we lost his transponder” (see (9:40 a.m.) September 11, 2001). The news about Flight 93 is shouted out to Major Kevin Nasypany, the NEADS mission crew commander. Nasypany responds: “Gimme the call sign. Gimme the whole nine yards.… Let’s get some info, real quick. They got a bomb?”
Liaison Wants Fighters Sent toward Flight 93 - The military liaison continues, asking Watson if NEADS scrambled fighter jets in response to Delta 1989, an aircraft that was mistakenly reported as having been hijacked (see (9:28 a.m.-9:33 a.m.) September 11, 2001 and 9:39 a.m. September 11, 2001). Watson replies: “We did. Out of Selfridge and Toledo” (see (9:55 a.m.) September 11, 2001 and 10:01 a.m. September 11, 2001), and says these jets are airborne. When the military liaison asks if the fighters can be directed to where Flight 93 is, Watson asks him if the Cleveland Center has latitude and longitude coordinates for this aircraft. The military liaison replies that he has not got this information available right now. All he knows is that Flight 93 has “got a confirmed bomb on board… and right now, his last known position was in the Westmoreland area.… Which is… in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, area.” [North American Aerospace Defense Command,

NEADS Searches on Radar - The news of a bomb on board Flight 93 spreads quickly at NEADS, and personnel there search for the aircraft’s primary return on their radar screens. But because the plane has already crashed, they will be unable to locate it. NEADS will only learn that Flight 93 has crashed at 10:15 a.m., during a call with the FAA’s Washington Center (see 10:15 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 30-31]
FAA Failed to Notify Military Earlier - The Cleveland Center’s notification to NEADS about Flight 93 comes 39 minutes after the plane was hijacked (see (9:28 a.m.) September 11, 2001) and 33 minutes after FAA headquarters was alerted to the hijacking (see 9:34 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 11, 28] At the time NEADS is alerted to Flight 93, NORAD is similarly uninformed about this aircraft, according to the 9/11 Commission. The Commission will state, “At 10:07, its representative on the air threat conference call stated that NORAD had ‘no indication of a hijack heading to DC at this time.’” According to the Commission, the National Military Command Center (NMCC) at the Pentagon learned about the Flight 93 hijacking slightly earlier on, at 10:03 a.m. (see 10:03 a.m. September 11, 2001). However, the NMCC was notified by the White House, not the FAA. [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 42]

#incorrect. the operator claimed he did not speak those words. the victim's brother listened to the phone call and said he never said those words. the passenger did not hear an explosion.

metro debunked on that point

joely 1-0 metro

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He did. All major news broadcasts reported this. I even posted a video of this. This story was changed at later date conveniently - much like the audio recordings played to relatives. Its now clear that you failed to watch the video

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Debris spread over miles
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#already been discussed. keep up. it was south of the impact and not I repeat not over the flight path.

joely 2-0 metro
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You failed to answer this actually. One of the questions put to you was how far was the furthest debris? You didn't want to answer this and we all know why.


Seismic reports contradicting the timing of the crash with that of the official story
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#according to your theory based on seismic data the missile struck the plane at 10.03

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actually, not according to my theory at all. This is actually common knowledge. You can research these readings yourself you fool.

#so, in one moment you are claiming the missile strike happened before 9.59 am and now are trying to claim it happened at 10.03.....
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When did I say the missile struck at 10:03? I thought we were referring to seismic data which may have recorded the impact on the ground. You're conjuring all this out of thin air.

#which time did the missile strike metro? before 9.59 or 10.03? you can't have it both ways unless now you are stating 2 missiles were fired
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I haven't stated any time when I think the missile struck. I'm just posting facts about passengers testimonies, audio recordings and seismic data. You just posted about trollies.

#FAA headquarters never notified NORAD, in Colorado, that Flight 93 was hijacked until after it crashed at 10:03a.m- you forget this!
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Do I?

According to one account given by NEADS Commander Robert Marr, some time before around 9:36 when it changes direction, while it is still flying west, Flight 93 is being monitored by NEADS. Marr describes how, “We don’t have fighters that way and we think [Flight 93 is] headed toward Detroit or Chicago.” He says he contacts a base in the area “so they [can] head off 93 at the pass.” Not only does NORAD know about the flight, but also, according to NORAD Commander Larry Arnold, “We watched the 93 track as it meandered around the Ohio-Pennsylvania area and started to turn south toward DC.” (This change of direction occurs around 9:36 a.m.) [Filson, 2003] This account completely contradicts the 9/11 Commission’s later claim that NEADS is first notified about Flight 93 at 10:07 a.m. [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004]
Miles Kara's explanation does not account for this contradiction even if it does explain the 9:16 time. If the 9:16 time is correct then NORAD was tracking the flight for 47-50 minutes (depending on which crash time is correct) as opposed to zero. If the 9:36 time is correct then NORAD was tracking the flight for at least 27-30 minutes as opposed to zero.

Now for the bottom line. If the 9:16 and 9:36 times are both mistakes, what we are left with is the FAA not notifying NORAD about Flight 93 for 37 minutes entire minutes.

That's even worse when you consider that planes had already struck in NYC. Did they forget their role?

#in conclusion you can't explain the lack of debris over the flight path.
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Actually the onus is on you to explain why there was debris spread over miles. just how far does it bounce?

#the fact the phone operator who took the from ed felt and ed felt's brother actually confirmed that no explosion had occurred.
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We know that it did occur and this was changed some time after. The information is readily available. Or did so eone magically put words in Felts mouth on September 11th?

#you have contradicted yourself wrt seismic data and ed felt's phone call.
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Actually, again the onus is on you to explain why the seismic data contradicts the official story

#your inability to explain the lack of despressurisation.
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Futile as we don't know where, when, what altitude, what missile etc.

#the fact that the military were not told of the hijacking until after it had crashed.
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See above. Evidence and testimony indicate that they were fully aware. Or... Like Felt, are you going to dismiss these peoples claims as well

Ha - and you had the audacity to post scorelines

Remember, after your trilly comment, you went down to minus 1000