In light of the news today of the departures of Diaby and four others, what exactly is the position with these three?
Does Flamini have the option of a year's extension as has been widely touted?
Has Arteta and Rosicky signed new terms?
I am all for keeping the little Morzat but Flamini has to go and wont shed a tear if Arteta were to be replaced by, say, a Lars Bender.
Flamini, Arteta & Rosicky
posted on 2/7/15
comment by Viviano's Debut (U19138)
posted 25 minutes ago
Good teams are allowed to have bad players as backup. No team is allowed to have nailed on 1st teamers as backup (for long)
DM is sorted. Get off it. Arteta/Flamini can manage the 20 odd games between them they are going to get next season.
Coq is better than most DM names I see making the rounds on here.
If you bought a 15M DM that did half as well as coq did last Jan you'd be talking of how he could kick on next season, not how we needed to go buy another 15M DM FFS.
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Arteta and Flamini are about as much use at DM (the type of DM we need) as Giroud would be. Both could probably just about survive in Chelsea or United's set up as they're far more compact sides. A young Flamini would've been useful but Arteta has never been capable of playing DM in the way currently required by Arsenal, he could on occasion do a job alongside the Coq though.
The Coq certainly deserves to keep his place but it's one injury to him and we would be back to a battle for 4th.
posted on 2/7/15
As well as Coq did in his position, he is still limited. Thats why Wenger preferred to pair Santi with Coq instead of Ramsey and Coq.
Coq has great stamina, tackles well, reads the game well defensively. However he lacks height, is limited at starting attacks, and so needs Santi to help him. This is not saying Coq can't develop those parts of his game. Its more that he doesn't have it at the moment.
Ideally we need a player like Busquets who can do what Coq does but also initiate attacks. Maybe William Carvahlo is that player, maybe Wenger has someone else in mind. But we really do need that player. This way we can play Coq when we want to go ultra defensive and at the same time let him develop those parts of his game in training.
I just don't know what Arteta/Flamini add. Rosicky can at least add depth behind Ozil.
posted on 2/7/15
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 16 minutes ago
As well as Coq did in his position, he is still limited. Thats why Wenger preferred to pair Santi with Coq instead of Ramsey and Coq.
Coq has great stamina, tackles well, reads the game well defensively. However he lacks height, is limited at starting attacks, and so needs Santi to help him. This is not saying Coq can't develop those parts of his game. Its more that he doesn't have it at the moment.
Ideally we need a player like Busquets who can do what Coq does but also initiate attacks. Maybe William Carvahlo is that player, maybe Wenger has someone else in mind. But we really do need that player. This way we can play Coq when we want to go ultra defensive and at the same time let him develop those parts of his game in training.
I just don't know what Arteta/Flamini add. Rosicky can at least add depth behind Ozil.
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You aren't playing football manager. You have 2 choices. Play Coq / Arteta at their current capacity (Coq to get better) or sign another an instantly lose them as an asset long-term.
Good players don't accept bench roles, especially not after being the best in their position for half a season.
Look at the Ospina/Cech/Szcz clusterfack we have on our hands now...Saying nothing of Martinez.
The irony is that fans are clamouring for luxury DM signings (Yes, that's what u call it when you are looking to buy in a position where u have your club captain. And arguably the best player in the league on current form).
A luxury DM signing.
Let that sink in for a bit.
When u factor in the difficulty of getting any Striker worth anything for less than 45Million you'd think we'd be keeping our powder dry for the start of the transfer merry-go-round.
Get off it. Coq is our answer. We just didn't have to sell him for 4 million and repurchase him for 25M for him to feel quality.
Arteta is better than Mikel. Arteta is better than Joe Allen. Arteta is better than Fernando.
If those teams aren't scrambling for DMs, neither should we.
posted on 2/7/15
^ Not at playing the DM role Arsenal require...
posted on 2/7/15
Viviano's Debut
I am very well aware that we are not playing football manger.
"Play Coq / Arteta at their current capacity (Coq to get better) or sign another an instantly lose them as an asset long-term."
Arteta is pretty much finished. You only need to look at some of his performances over the last two seasons to know that he doesn't have the legs for any role at the club. I wouldn't keep him. Wenger has to make the same decision of choosing who to keep between Ospina and Woj. There is no clusterfeck, its what Wenger is paid £8m to do and he knew that before bringing in Cech.
Now who do you think Coquelin is exactly? He had a great end to the season after nearly being out of the door. We gave Flamini a contract based on 6 months trial and where did that get us. The real question is do you think that Coq can carry the team for the whole season. You really want to risk that based on 6 months after and ignore the two years where Coq's development was going nowhere? Do you think its even fair on him to be expected to carry the load? We are not talking about a recognised holding player but one who has not experienced playing a whole season as first choice even in a weaker league. Coq is an emerging player and you want to risk our entire season on him because anyone coming in will be a luxury? Are you serious? The fact that Coq looked so good was not because he was the next Makelele and none of his coaches, Wenger, scouts or coaches and managers at the clubs where he was loaned to had no idea. Its because of the paucity of quality we had in that position before he stepped in making him look twice the player he is at the present moment in his career. Coq aqffect on th team were a sad indictment of the lack of quality of Arteta/Flamini.
posted on 2/7/15
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Viviano's Debut
I am very well aware that we are not playing football manger.
"Play Coq / Arteta at their current capacity (Coq to get better) or sign another an instantly lose them as an asset long-term."
Arteta is pretty much finished. You only need to look at some of his performances over the last two seasons to know that he doesn't have the legs for any role at the club. I wouldn't keep him. Wenger has to make the same decision of choosing who to keep between Ospina and Woj. There is no clusterfeck, its what Wenger is paid £8m to do and he knew that before bringing in Cech.
Now who do you think Coquelin is exactly? He had a great end to the season after nearly being out of the door. We gave Flamini a contract based on 6 months trial and where did that get us. The real question is do you think that Coq can carry the team for the whole season. You really want to risk that based on 6 months after and ignore the two years where Coq's development was going nowhere? Do you think its even fair on him to be expected to carry the load? We are not talking about a recognised holding player but one who has not experienced playing a whole season as first choice even in a weaker league. Coq is an emerging player and you want to risk our entire season on him because anyone coming in will be a luxury? Are you serious? The fact that Coq looked so good was not because he was the next Makelele and none of his coaches, Wenger, scouts or coaches and managers at the clubs where he was loaned to had no idea. Its because of the paucity of quality we had in that position before he stepped in making him look twice the player he is at the present moment in his career. Coq aqffect on th team were a sad indictment of the lack of quality of Arteta/Flamini.
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A few points.
Arteta has had barely 5 games over the last 2 seasons where he was at full fitness...mostly because he was constantly being rushed back with flamini being so rubbish(same thing that happened to Rambo, Wilshere and Ox).
Make not mistake, with Coquelin's emergence he now able to take the load off and regain full fitness.
You don't understand how football works. Players age on the pitch..not off it. That's why Rocky looks quicker that Rooney.
Arteta has missed so much football over the last decade that I (and thankfully Arsene) fully expect him to be at least back-up quality for the next 2 seasons.
In that time, the gametime expectations would have reduced considerably (50+ full games) to somewhere in the 15-20 games.
Did you see what actually being allowed to recover completely did for Jack, Rambo and Ozil late last season?
Arteta has been within 5 games of a recent injury for the past 2 seasons. Blaming him for not regaining form in that time frame is as idiotic as blaming Debuchy for his shiite performance against Reading.
But arsenal fans do that often. Like they did to Eboue, Denilson (when he was nursing back spasms the season they grew to hate him) and now Theo.
It's not facking Football Manager, you don't go out and waste 15 odd million on another player because your bang-in-form player hasn't been around long enough for you to think highly enough of him.
It's ridiculous. Anyone who watched Coq when he was dominating the youth league with Jack and Frimpz would tell he'd be a beast once his physique was up to snuff.
Well now it is (like matic is. Like Harry Kane is) and he can hold his own in this league.
6 months of being easily the best DM IN THE LEAGUE would have had YOU moaning for Wenger to sign him if he was a Southampton player.
But it doesn't go with the English media narrative of "spunck money up a wall to make a statement"...so Coq iis pants.
The fact that you were looking for a player name to upgrade on Coq and could only come up with "a Busquets" should be enough indication that you care more about your certainty of the player reputation that you do about his ability.
posted on 2/7/15
It's also quite ridiculous the number of players we have that can "do a job" in DM right now. Coq, Arteta, Rambo Jack, Chambers, Kos(as he showed for france). Heck Bielik will be 18 in a few and is a talent.
Buying a DM this season makes not sense. Signing a DM and putting Coq on the bench makes no sense.
It's sorted. Move on. Personally I want Fekir.
posted on 3/7/15
Viviano's Debut
"You don't understand how football works. Players age on the pitch..not off it. That's why Rocky looks quicker that Rooney."
I think you are reflecting your lack of your knowledge. What do you think footballers do when they don't play? They don't sit around playing with their xbox. They train. Just because they are not playing competitive football doesn't mean that you can stop the ageing process. Just absolutely ridiculous comment.
"Arteta has been within 5 games of a recent injury for the past 2 seasons. Blaming him for not regaining form in that time frame is as idiotic as blaming Debuchy for his shiite performance against Reading."
You are missing the point entirely. You have just admitted that we cannot rely on Arteta. It doesn't matter if we differ on our opinion of why Arteta isn't performing. The FACT is he isn't performing. And therefore you cannot bet the season on a vital position in middle of the park on someone who hasn't performed for 2 seasons and is 33 years old to backup anyone. At that age it just isn't possible to recover, play, recover without getting injuries. How can you compare the recovery process after serious injury of younger men like Ramsey/Wilshere to Arteta is just beyond common sense.
"But it doesn't go with the English media narrative of "spunck money up a wall to make a statement"...so Coq iis pants."
What are you talking about? Arsene Wenger sent Coq on two loans where he failed. Arsene Wenger has admitted he was not intending to offer Coq a new contract had it not been for his emergence. Had it not been for our injury situation Coq would not be at Arsenal. This is not about some media driven hype. When players rise like that their form can also regress. The best way to cause that is by saying to Coq that we are betting the entire season on you. Where are Denilson/Eboue today? And who the feck has turned on Theo? Those who hated him will always hate him but the majority of the fanbase in this country is very supportive of Theo.
"The fact that you were looking for a player name to upgrade on Coq and could only come up with "a Busquets" should be enough indication that you care more about your certainty of the player reputation that you do about his ability."
You are again missing the point. I am talking about a player LIKE Busquets who can do both. Obviously that went over your head. We need a player who can initiate attacks whilst still being competent defensively. Whilst Coq did superbly defensively he still needs to develop the attacking side of his game.
If you want names? William Carvalho, Bender are two on the market and can do both. We missed out on Kondogbia and Schneiderlin. Its been widely reported that Wenger enquired for both but did not agree with their valuations. So obviously Wenger isn't 'moving on' like you.
You keep on talking about Arsenal as not being able to afford decent depth in the squad. Do you have any idea what Arsenal's turnover is? Arsenal are extremely cash rich and can easily afford to spend. In fact that is what they have been doing over the last two seasons? Wenger paid £16m for Chambers who wasn't even a regular at Southampton! Have you stopped following Arsenal after 2011? We have a new ownership and multitude of new sponsors. Thats not even taking the new TV deal into account.
posted on 3/7/15
AW is in the market for a holding player. This much is known. It is simply unrealistic to expect Coq to play 40+ games next season. Even allowing for injury and suspension.
Arteta does not have the physicality to adequately perform the role. He hasn’t for some time. A fact also supported by his defensive stats. They are considerably poorer than Flamini’s, and a world away from Coqs.
For Coq to flourish I believe he needs viable competition. Arteta and Flamini are simply not feasible, and I believe he will look to other options to challenge/compliment Coq.
posted on 5/7/15
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/19/arsene-wenger-arsenal-francis-coquelin