Good luck to him, silly experiment to bring him into the England set up so quick having arrived from years playing what is essentially a much simpler game. He could have been great and played a role similar to SBW in providing midfield holes and offloads but it takes time to learn the complexities and he simply wasn't given that time. Just because you are big and successful in a sport which, at first glance looks similar is no predictor of success in another sport.
posted on 10/11/15
Very happy to have Big Slammin Sam Burgess back in Rugby League
His name is carved deep in Rugby League history.
posted on 11/11/15
It may be a much simpler sport but remembering when bath and wigan played each other at both codes and bath won union by less than 20 and wigan put about 80pts past them in league.
Found the league scapegoat convenient enough as usual along with no good reason shaun edwards has never been involved with England. England were ahead against Wales when Burgess was taken off and showed themselves to be the worst performing side in their home tournament without a single positive to their name. At least the 'minnows' achieved a high standard comparable with their abilities and some had great moments of attacking rugby. England were a joke full of anti-league snobbery from the media from start to finish which was very early.
posted on 11/11/15
Guys
It didn't have to do with snobbery or scapegoating or anything like that. It was down to poor decision making and probably a bit of money taking over all round, including the Messiah, Big Sam.
Then there was the shambles of selection. Mike Ford (league hero) had him as a blind side flanker, a position that doesn't exist in league. Stuart Lancaster, ably assisted by Andy Farrell (league legend) had him down as an inside centre. This created two problems.
Kyle Eastmond (league convert - who is a very capable international player IMHO) would walk up to Mike Ford and say. Hey gaffer, if you reckon I'm the best IC at Bath, how comes the England coaches reckon the best IC in England is a forward from Bath.
Secondly, every other IC in England, particularly Burrell, Twelvetrees and Slade, would be right pi5sed off to learn that their efforts were nothing compared to a guy who nothing about the position. Quite possibly that feeling ran right throughout the squad.
The long and the short of it is that Sam was fast tracked to a position beyond his real capability at the time. The how, why and wherefore of that will probably never be known to the likes of you and me. Some people should be made to answer very searching questions, but I doubt their responses will ever be made public.
One such is Andy Farrell who made the same fruitless journey into union some years ago. How much did he encourage Sam in this fantasy? It follows a remarkably similar pattern to his own journey. Tried at club level as a blind side, tried at international level as a centre. Not really up to standard in either position.
You will believe what you want to believe, there's nothing anybody can do to stop that, but please, please stop this 'chip on the shoulder' scapegoat and snobbery nonsense. Apart from not being correct, it really does make you look quite silly.
posted on 11/11/15
He wasn't good enough to as an international UNION center. That's a cold hard fact. There is of course credence behind the idea that he could have gotten good enough given time. I wouldn't take that away from him. He certainly had to potential. But clearly not dedicated or interested enough to stick around and work his way into the team on MERIT! Just like sonny bill Williams did. and it took SBW nearly 3 damn years to do it. but at the very least he earned his sport on guess what.... hardwork and MERIT:
Another fact is that he was being wished well by most corners until he looked back over his shoulder and started talking nonsense. Like a bratty child.
Now he looks like a cry baby. But then his attitude sums up league rugby perfectly. So this is my im not even a little bit surprised face -
posted on 13/11/15
England went out of the world cup because as a TEAM they simply weren't good enough. It's a TEAM sport and the singling out of Sam by some ex-players and elements of the media has been appalling, and smacked of anti-league bias/snobbery.
No one really questions that the world cup was too soon for him, but as others have pointed out, England were beating Wales with him in the side, and he made line breaks and offloads against Fiji in a game England one........... yet he is to blame in some quarters.
Against Australia the much vaunted pack of England were played off the park by a far superior opposition.
England rugby needs to look at it's overall approach, then maybe they can/should start beating the southern hemisphere sides (or Wales!) on a regular basis. The anti Sam stuff has been pathetic and completely misses the point/issue.
posted on 13/11/15
lol England won !!! damn grammar !
posted on 13/11/15
VOF
I hear you, and I agree with SOME of what you say. Everybody knew he shouldn't have been in the squad. It was, as you say, too soon for him.
Nothing has been "anti Sam". It may have been anti his selection, but it was NOT anti him. That is more anti the numpties who selected him. Some would focus on Lancaster, I would include Farrell in that scrutiny.
What has been pathetic has been some of the league reaction to the criticism of the whole thing. That has smacked of a definite chip on the shoulder with the use of words of snobbery elitism and scapegoating.
posted on 14/11/15
comment by VOF - Evans Above.......... !!! (U17124)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
England went out of the world cup because as a TEAM they simply weren't good enough. It's a TEAM sport and the singling out of Sam by some ex-players and elements of the media has been appalling, and smacked of anti-league bias/snobbery.
No one really questions that the world cup was too soon for him, but as others have pointed out, England were beating Wales with him in the side, and he made line breaks and offloads against Fiji in a game England one........... yet he is to blame in some quarters.
Against Australia the much vaunted pack of England were played off the park by a far superior opposition.
England rugby needs to look at it's overall approach, then maybe they can/should start beating the southern hemisphere sides (or Wales!) on a regular basis. The anti Sam stuff has been pathetic and completely misses the point/issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like to see a reference for this stuff. Like a link to any comment that blaims burgess. Kind of getting tired of pointing out the fact that if you say" The selection of burgess was mistake" it automatically translates into "anti sam" comments.
Personally i'm anti cry baby. Take that whatever way you want.
posted on 16/11/15
comment by DingBatMan ™©®☺ (U3857)
posted 2 days, 1 hour ago
comment by VOF - Evans Above.......... !!! (U17124)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
England went out of the world cup because as a TEAM they simply weren't good enough. It's a TEAM sport and the singling out of Sam by some ex-players and elements of the media has been appalling, and smacked of anti-league bias/snobbery.
No one really questions that the world cup was too soon for him, but as others have pointed out, England were beating Wales with him in the side, and he made line breaks and offloads against Fiji in a game England one........... yet he is to blame in some quarters.
Against Australia the much vaunted pack of England were played off the park by a far superior opposition.
England rugby needs to look at it's overall approach, then maybe they can/should start beating the southern hemisphere sides (or Wales!) on a regular basis. The anti Sam stuff has been pathetic and completely misses the point/issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like to see a reference for this stuff. Like a link to any comment that blaims burgess. Kind of getting tired of pointing out the fact that if you say" The selection of burgess was mistake" it automatically translates into "anti sam" comments.
Personally i'm anti cry baby. Take that whatever way you want.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure you can say this article "blames" Burgess, but it does highlight that he wasn't an international standard centre. And the article is written by one of the best centres we've had in the Northern Hemisphere...
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-burgess-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821
posted on 16/11/15
He wasn't any more of a centre than Andy Farrell was. Now, could there be a link there?