Shaw yearns for Poch

_Viva_Vida (U6044)

He wasn't undergoing anything. He'd been put back into the reserves after barely any time with the first team and there's simply no evidence to suggest Jose had plans to integrate him into the team.

Why are you ignoring what Jese himself said?

Is it because it makes your view look even more ridiculous?

Adan was a sub. He played 7 times in three years and left. If that's integration into the first team then you need to review your definition.

Morata and Nacho I had down as maybesalong with Santon as a definite.

That's where my three players in 13 years comes from and such a figure is proof I am right.

Jose has shown with his lack of youth development that he's not remotely interested in developing these players into the first team.

The evidence is there - you are either just not mature enough to admit it or you're so entrenched in your view that you're suffering from confirmation bias.

To look at what happened to Jese, including the player's own comments on his time under Mourinho, and still conclude that Mourinho can chalk that one down as part of his commitment to youth development is a sign that you've lost the plot.

Oh, and McTominay, as I have said over and over again, is encouraging but far too early to make any judgements like the one you're making.

To say Jose is not at all interested is inaccurate

............

Two people. Winston and Dazza.

Dazza hates Jose so much you can't have a sensible conversation on the man with him.

To say in isn't interested in youth development is not quite true.

To say he doesn't have a good record with youth development is true.

That is me now done with this thread.

Good day to you all.

Vidicschin (U3584)

You were done a long time ago.

After losing various debates about the meaning of certain words, whether players played a certain season etc. you have then tried to move the goalposts about what was being discussed.

When you finally got back on topic, you effectively claimed that a manager who promotes up to three youth players into the first team for more than 5-10 games, over a 13 YEAR period, somehow proves that that manager is committed to developing youth into his teams.

Laughable stuff.

I've proven that Jose is not remotely interested in youth development to a point where they are first team regulars.

I've also proven that his record of developing youngsters is terrible.

To claim otherwise is moronic.

But then, VC, you are the guy who claims that Mourinho giving a debut to a youth goalkeeper because he's the only fit keeper at the club is proof that he's committed to youth development.

You really will argue anything.

Unfortunately for you, I won't let these stupid comments slide and you've been found out.

Have a nice weekend, VC.

To say in isn't interested in youth development is not quite true.

To say he doesn't have a good record with youth development is true.

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I have listed some names which Jose has integrated which puts to bed the myth that "Jose isn't at all interested" in youth development. He clearly has some interest.

Me and VC have never suggested that Jose has a great historical record, but have provided some examples where he has shown interest in youth development.

Is that a fair compromise Winston?

_Viva_Vida (U6044)

Most of the names you've listed would not qualify as integrated into the first team.

Of those that did, we're left with a maximum of three.

In 13 years.

That is not proof he is interested in youth development and I'd argue it's proof of the opposite.

Sorry but no, I don't feel there's any compromise here.

Mourinho is well known for not developing youth into his teams and my criticism of him for that is absolutely valid.

Of course, this debate would have been a lot shorter had you not harped on about whether these players 'developed' in their time at Chelsea etc.

That was never up for debate.

The point was always whether he works with them to develop them into a first team player.

Clearly he doesn't, though fingers crossed for that to change.

We presumably all want the same thing.

You were done a long time ago.

you've been found out.

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Please don't let silly comments like this end the debate.

.................................................

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I will always maintain that Jose has some interest in youth development based on what we have discussed despite not having a good historical record and this media perception to the contrary. You don't agree with me and you have your own criteria for this, which I don't agree with, fine.

Unfortunately I don't have the time this evening, weekend or majority of next week to discuss this further. So I will have to leave it there.

Good weekend to you as well Winston and VC

_Viva_Vida (U6044)

Fair enough, I will keep it civil. My apologies.

I can begrudgingly accept that some of this is down to opinion, I'll give you that.

But what I can't accept is when we're debating things and blatant mistruths are being bandied around - particularly the actual debate itself being moved into things I had never said.

The Jese example - from the horse's mouth - shows us that Jose wasn't really interested in helping him develop into a first team player. I think you probably know that now.

And the only reason he was on the table is because there are so few examples of him promoting youth and then giving them an established place in his first team squad.

Anyway, there's probably little more to say on the matter and I'm sure we can all agree to keep our hopes up that Jose will use United youngsters more often and will integrate them properly so that they have a genuine chance of becoming a mainstay in the team.

Have a good one.

I don't like Mourinho, I admit. But I'm perfectly capable of having a sensible conversation when it comes to him.

The issue is that suggesting Mourinho has an interest in developing youth players is not sensible, so this isn't the time for sensible conversation.