Listening to talksport this evening and their report on the Real Madrid v PSG game last night in which reports have come out that the PSG hierarchy intend to approach the European football authorities about forming a European Super League.
The feeling at PSG is that they are at a disadvantage in European competition because of the weakness of their domestic league. Apparently they feel strongly about this and will not let it drop.
One reason why we have to gain promotion this season with Fosuns comments about being in the champions league within 3 years after promotiom.
My feeling about this is if it does happen and the likes of sky drop the domestic coverage in place of the super league the majority of clubs that don't make it will go bust.
European Super League.
posted on 21/2/18
comment by pertonwolf (U17284)
posted 1 day, 9 hours ago
A stalling market for the UK market not the worldwide market.
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that still doesn't make any sense perton
the premier league is a global brand and brings in billions for home and overseas tv rights. shared between 20 sides, with the biggest 6 or so clubs netting about 35% of the money. in order for those clubs to make more money the investment would need to go up considerably, or their share would have to increase (or both).
in a European super league their share is likely to fall significantly. they will be playing with 14 other clubs, or 34 other clubs in a two league system, who will all want equal amounts of money. not clubs like stoke and palace who are grateful for whatever they get.
so the only way to get richer is if the investment increases, and that increase would have to be quite large. if you were Malaysian TV, or Chinese TV or wherever, would you pay a lot more for football than you do now, with no overall increase in audience?
and all of that is assuming that if there is any increased money going into clubs, it somehow sticks with the club or is drawn by the owners. whereas in reality to attract players into the league and to buy them from the clubs that are outside of the league, transfers and wages will simply rise again and suck out all of the case.
the finances don't make any sense at all.
and that is before you throw in practicalities like the start and end dates for the season, season breaks, policing and security, brexit, potential EUFA/FIFA bans or restrictions...
struggling to see the benefits for fans, TV, clubs or players. the main target audience appears to be people who don't currently like or follow football in their own country. which doesn't strike me as a stable, long term audience.
posted on 21/2/18
newly formed club would need to be spending £500-600m at least to play catch up with a team like man city. 20+ newly formed clubs would have to spend billions.
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Unimaginable a team spending £500m in a short space of time... Oh, teams like City and PSG already do
No one mentioned 20+ new teams, not sure where you got that figure from. Barcelona, PSG, Real etc are well established teams.
"FC Glasgow" would be big and rich because a very rich person would see the opportunity to exploit the lack of competitive football in Scotland, the continued financial struggles of teams in the league, and the comtinued love of football.
You only have to look at Spurs Wembley attendances to see how many fair weather "tourist" fans there are. Wembley would sell out no problem for the 15 visits of Europeans best teams and the top players in the world.
How is America far better placed? They see football as a woman's sport and behind their own traditional men's sports.
As for attracting players - you only have to look at players who went to Russia when the money was flowing, or more recently to China.
posted on 21/2/18
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
newly formed club would need to be spending £500-600m at least to play catch up with a team like man city. 20+ newly formed clubs would have to spend billions.
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Unimaginable a team spending £500m in a short space of time... Oh, teams like City and PSG already do
No one mentioned 20+ new teams, not sure where you got that figure from. Barcelona, PSG, Real etc are well established teams.
"FC Glasgow" would be big and rich because a very rich person would see the opportunity to exploit the lack of competitive football in Scotland, the continued financial struggles of teams in the league, and the comtinued love of football.
You only have to look at Spurs Wembley attendances to see how many fair weather "tourist" fans there are. Wembley would sell out no problem for the 15 visits of Europeans best teams and the top players in the world.
How is America far better placed? They see football as a woman's sport and behind their own traditional men's sports.
As for attracting players - you only have to look at players who went to Russia when the money was flowing, or more recently to China.
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it was your suggestion that new clubs might need to be formed because of the need to go outside of UEFA. my view is that none of this will ever happen. but even if someone did show interest in forming a super league, it is easier to have smaller established clubs taken over and invested in (hence the AEK Athens example) than it is to set up a brand new football team in most parts of Europe where the game is already well established.
if you seriously think any scotsman would move allegiance to FC Glasgow, regardless of them having a rich owner and being part of a European super league, then you have no idea of Scottish football. and most countries and areas would be similarly uninterested, if not quite so violently partisan as Glasgow.
yes, clubs like man city and PSG do invest £500m+ figures, although it is usually over several years rather than in one go. and they often already have first or second flight squads. if you wanted to set up a team from scratch to compete in a league that would also feature Barcelona, City, Bayern etc., then yr going to need a squad of say 25 players, at which point £500m doesn't actually buy you that much. also, remember that PSG and City received investment knowing that they could challenge for titles and cups. one of the things that sides need to maintain global interest (and the money it brings) is the chance for all those far flung fans to celebrate their team winning the league every other year. under the current set up every Chinese Real fan, or Malaysian Man United supporter knows they're only a year or two away from a trophy. would they stick with those sides (and keep pumping their money in) if they were finishing 17th in a super league every year? Not a chance. any proposed European league reduces the prospects of your team winning something from the dozens of different league titles and cups down to just one or two things a year - which is never going to maintain the interest of plastic fans across the world
posted on 21/2/18
if you seriously think any scotsman would move allegiance to FC Glasgow
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Why would they have to switch alliance? That is like saying a Rangers fan who goes and watches Scotland has switched alliance. You are discounting the many who don't support either. Then there are the 50k + Celtic fans who go to home matches but cannot get to away games. Every other week that is a massive number of match going fans sitting at home.
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it is easier to have smaller established clubs taken over and invested in (hence the AEK Athens example)
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But England is far more marketable than Greece - you seem to be ignoring that.
There are a lot of fans who cannot go to their own teams games for various reasons - Spurs have got 80k at games but are moving to a 60k stadium, that is 20k straight away.
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PSG and City received investment knowing that they could challenge for titles and cups.
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Yet the whole reason for this article is PSG moaning about the massive restrictions their league has on them. They have outgrown their league, but cannot grow into a genuine big team (ie a Real, United, Barca) because of their domestic league.
Not sure why any team would be expected to struggle year after year in this format?
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Not a chance. any proposed European league reduces the prospects of your team winning something from the dozens of different league titles and cups down to just one or two things a year - which is never going to maintain the interest of plastic fans across the world
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Doubt any plastic fan is supporting a team because they win the League Cup.
They support teams because of marketing and accessibility in their own countries (hence why they support English teams not Greek multiple champions).
The very fact you call these foreign fans "plastic" suggests they could very easily move to a new team...
posted on 21/2/18
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 18 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-Wolves, passing the ball since 2017 (U11551)
posted 2 hours, 3 minutes ago
As before, why can't teams compete in both leagues?
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68 league games is a bit much for one season!
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Couldn't that be resolved by having expanded squads?
posted on 21/2/18
comment by Cinciwolf-Wolves, passing the ball since 2017 (U11551)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 18 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-Wolves, passing the ball since 2017 (U11551)
posted 2 hours, 3 minutes ago
As before, why can't teams compete in both leagues?
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68 league games is a bit much for one season!
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Couldn't that be resolved by having expanded squads?
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So pretty much two different squads - two different managers and coaching staff. Pretty much a new club within a club?
posted on 21/2/18
then yr going to need a squad of say 25 players, at which point £500m doesn't actually buy you that much.
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Also, you are talking about transfer fees - which wouldn't be a factor. Players would be resigning from FIFA/UEFA.
posted on 21/2/18
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-Wolves, passing the ball since 2017 (U11551)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 18 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-Wolves, passing the ball since 2017 (U11551)
posted 2 hours, 3 minutes ago
As before, why can't teams compete in both leagues?
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68 league games is a bit much for one season!
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Couldn't that be resolved by having expanded squads?
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So pretty much two different squads - two different managers and coaching staff. Pretty much a new club within a club?
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Not quite but you could see managers chopping and changing depending on the opposition and priorities, I would think most clubs would want the euro title more than the domestic title for a start and of course many will be out of the running half way so set sights on the domestic league.
posted on 21/2/18
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 15 minutes ago
if you seriously think any scotsman would move allegiance to FC Glasgow
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Why would they have to switch alliance? That is like saying a Rangers fan who goes and watches Scotland has switched alliance. You are discounting the many who don't support either. Then there are the 50k + Celtic fans who go to home matches but cannot get to away games. Every other week that is a massive number of match going fans sitting at home.
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if they don't already support celtic or rangers, it is VERY unlikely they will support a new team. and no, i don't think most celtic fans would want to shell out money to watch FC Glasgow every other week. sat next to rangers fans. the national side is different in all countries, as club fans put aside rivalries for their country, but even that can be quite tribal and divisive.
you know that a large number of football fans who actually go to games already find the costs unreasonable? how many neutrals go to watch matches now when their team isn't playing?
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it is easier to have smaller established clubs taken over and invested in (hence the AEK Athens example)
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But England is far more marketable than Greece - you seem to be ignoring that.
There are a lot of fans who cannot go to their own teams games for various reasons - Spurs have got 80k at games but are moving to a 60k stadium, that is 20k straight away.
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but the money isn't coming from paying customers at grounds its coming from overseas tv rights? so it makes no difference if the club is in Greece, England or Timbuktu if they can say Ronaldo is playing for them?
also, the 20,000 spurs fans are unlikely to go to support another team instead. they don't do it now, why would they do it to watch two sides they have no connection with? maybe occasionally for Barcelona, but every year, and for clubs that aren't as good to watch?
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PSG and City received investment knowing that they could challenge for titles and cups.
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Yet the whole reason for this article is PSG moaning about the massive restrictions their league has on them. They have outgrown their league, but cannot grow into a genuine big team (ie a Real, United, Barca) because of their domestic league.
Not sure why any team would be expected to struggle year after year in this format?
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i suspect the real reason is PSG want access to more money and don't get a fat lot from being part of the french league. and also, their owners are not typical football fans. is there any reason to think PSG fans want what their owners are after? i doubt it.
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Not a chance. any proposed European league reduces the prospects of your team winning something from the dozens of different league titles and cups down to just one or two things a year - which is never going to maintain the interest of plastic fans across the world
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Doubt any plastic fan is supporting a team because they win the League Cup.
They support teams because of marketing and accessibility in their own countries (hence why they support English teams not Greek multiple champions).
The very fact you call these foreign fans "plastic" suggests they could very easily move to a new team...
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if it was simply marketing they'd support a wide range of English and other clubs. the vast majority support man united, arsenal, chelsea, city and Liverpool. yes those clubs have good marketing but their marketing is based on winning lots of stuff, not the joys of being based in England.
spurs has nowhere near the market share of foreign fans and money in the east by proportion to their success in this country, yet they are as big and as rich as others in the prem? the reason being, they haven't won anything for years.
yes one league cup isn't going to do it. but league titles and regular fa cups will. arsenal may not win the league any more but they are still regular finalists in and winners of domestic cups.
an existing or new team in a European league who wins nothing for the next 25 years is not going to get the same share of money that they could expect by being a bigger fish in their own domestic league. so if they aren't going to get money, are a lot less likely to win trophies, and will potentially lose a lot of their home fans interest, what is there to attract them to jump ship to the super-league?
posted on 21/2/18
you know that a large number of football fans who actually go to games already find the costs unreasonable?
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So going to watch "London FC" for a far more reasonable price would be very attractive.
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if it was simply marketing they'd support a wide range of English and other clubs. the vast majority support man united, arsenal, chelsea, city and Liverpool.
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They are the clubs heavily marketed. The marketing of them is because they are the biggest clubs, and most successful, yes. But none are are successful as Olympiakos or Celtic - so why aren't they the clubs heavily followed ? Because marketing of the PL put it far ahead.
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an existing or new team in a European league who wins nothing for the next 25 years is not going to get the same share of money that they could expect by being a bigger fish in their own domestic league
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That would be dependant on the success of the ESL.