Hi Gooners. What great news to kick off the season...NOT!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45102559
So after all we have done as a club to become financially self sufficient with a fat bank balance. The wonderful prize we win, is to have the yank who has been draining the club the last how many years, now be allowed to purchase a whopping 37% of the club with a £550,000,000 LOAN!!
I can't see how we'll be spending big money on transfers now. This loan to pay for full control of the club will be paid off with the CLUB'S money not Stan's. I'm sure we were told as fans that this sort of purchase would never be allowed.
I'm 100% with the trust on this one. If/When this sale is done, the day that sale contract is signed, will be a very dark day indeed for Arsenal FC. Don't bother celebrating Wenger's leaving because the greedy yank sucking the life out of AFC is now getting the opportunity to sit and suck all the cash out too. If you thought it was bad the last ten years, it's got nothing on the ten coming. For all his flaws, this sale, I don't think, could have happened whilst Wenger was at the club.
Oh Great!
posted on 8/8/18
I think its very hard to understand all this corporate finance until you examine how little profits are generated by the clubs compared to their worth. P/E Ratios! So when ppl complain abt how owners will try to take money out of the club through stealth they miss the point. You could do that sort of thing 10 years ago, maybe even 6 or 7 years ago and get away with it. Taking it now or being tight might make you a few 10s of millions. But it could wipe £100s of millions from the value of your business. The ultimate in being penny wise and pound foolish.
posted on 8/8/18
I'm not saying he's doing it blind Jenius, dude knows exactly what he is doing. Everything you're talking about only makes sense if he doesn't go and leverage the club in some deal overseas to buy something else. Maybe we're just divided on his intention.
You seem to think his endgame is to sell Arsenal FC for a sale price profit. Where I'm saying he's intending to make HIS profit from other deals made with the gargantuan sum he'll go and borrow against the club. It's standard "Sly dirty fat cat" business. Borrow against the business, spend the money and then use the business to pay the debt.
He's not planning to make a sale price profit, he's planning a much more lucrative percentage profit by leaving us owned by God knows which bank/financier several years from now. After whatever dodgy back room deal he cuts to not have to pay dime from his or KSE's cash.
posted on 8/8/18
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 14 minutes ago
I think its very hard to understand all this corporate finance until you examine how little profits are generated by the clubs compared to their worth. P/E Ratios! So when ppl complain abt how owners will try to take money out of the club through stealth they miss the point. You could do that sort of thing 10 years ago, maybe even 6 or 7 years ago and get away with it. Taking it now or being tight might make you a few 10s of millions. But it could wipe £100s of millions from the value of your business. The ultimate in being penny wise and pound foolish.
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It's the way corporate financing works which allows him to pull the exact kinda thing I'm talking about and get away with a tonne of cash. He doesn't need to directly raid the reserves in the way you say. He makes way more money as I'm saying with said reserves ending up paying for it in the long run.
posted on 8/8/18
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 26 minutes ago
Arsenal's valuation would have risen just like every other Premier League club around. What da fack does that have to do with Kroenke?
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I am talking about Arsenal's valuation compared to others in the premier league. By paying £550m Kroenke has set the value of Arsenal. All the other clubs were bought for small amounts and have not yet been sold for profit. In fact those that have transferred hands, have done so in loses. Its why there is so much haggling over Newcastle for example.
So for example Roman paid £150m and probably covered in the region of £1.2Bn of loses. Now for RA to make a profit he has to sell the club in excess of £1600m. Good luck with that with a new stadium shelved.
So for an investor like Kroenke to have so much faith in his exit strategy shows ambition. Thats what I was referring to. Kroenke has paid a lot of money and he is not going to risk that investment by allowing the club to stagnate.
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And I'm pointing out that Arsenal's comparative valuation hasn't risen any higher over the years. If anything, Man U have expanded faster than Arsenal since our Emirates move, Chelsea and City are now around the same level. Abramovic would easily make good money if he chooses to sell now and he reportedly fended off a takeover bid close to $2b from Jim Ratcliffe. Spurs despite vastly lower success than Arsenal over the years wouldn't sell for less than £1b today.
So I'm not sure why you're making it out like Kroenke somehow added value to us with his moves. We're a valuable club because Arsenal are the biggest, most successful, most supported club in Europe's most vibrant city.
Your optimism about Kroenke's ambitions fall flat under the simple scrutiny of his record with his American franchises. If his Rams team could be sooo sheite in the NFL, which has to be the most egalitarian sports league in the world where everyone theoretically has a good chance of victory, it doesn't quite feel rational to be optimistic about overhauling teams with greater financial power than us, who also happen to be further ahead in their development. Our squad is a mess and we need to rebuild. Kroenke simply isn't liquid enough to inject serious money into the club.
posted on 8/8/18
*comparative valuation with our rivals.
posted on 8/8/18
The Rams have also doubled in value in 2 years from $1.45bn to $2.9bn, for what it's worth...
posted on 8/8/18
comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
I'm not saying he's doing it blind Jenius, dude knows exactly what he is doing. Everything you're talking about only makes sense if he doesn't go and leverage the club in some deal overseas to buy something else. Maybe we're just divided on his intention.
You seem to think his endgame is to sell Arsenal FC for a sale price profit. Where I'm saying he's intending to make HIS profit from other deals made with the gargantuan sum he'll go and borrow against the club. It's standard "Sly dirty fat cat" business. Borrow against the business, spend the money and then use the business to pay the debt.
He's not planning to make a sale price profit, he's planning a much more lucrative percentage profit by leaving us owned by God knows which bank/financier several years from now. After whatever dodgy back room deal he cuts to not have to pay dime from his or KSE's cash.
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There is absolutely no evidence or precedent from Kroenke for any of this. Jenius' explanation (and what I said on the previous thread) of a shrewd investor who wants to see the value of his assets increase with a view to one day monetising, them makes far more sense... It just doesn't make headlines.
posted on 8/8/18
*misplaced comma, this place needs an edit feature.
posted on 9/8/18
Why would Kroenke borrow against the club? Arsenal are stable, but that's only relative to football clubs. He owns plenty of real estate and predictable, profitable businesses in the US, it's far easier and cheaper to borrow against those.
Kroenke is worth about 8 billion. His purchase of arsenal makes us worth roughly 2 billion. I don't think he's about to dip into our revenue stream, which is chump change compared to his other assets. Also that would reduce our value wouldn't it? Please correct me if not.
It is still a sad day, there are fans out there who owned shares and planned to do so for the rest of their lives. There will no longer be those agm events, which were a nice idea but ultimately pointless as nothing ever came from them.
I'm more interested to see who Kroenke appoints on our board. With Gazidis leaving we'll need a new CEO. I thought he would put his son Josh in, but with the amount he's invested in us, I think he will want somebody more competent.
posted on 9/8/18
It's clear some of you work in the finance sector, or have a very keen interest in it. I appreciate your interpretations of what's going on, I wouldn't have a clue what to make of it but I don't want to be like some fans and be outraged just for the sake of it