I want to discuss the formation Unai deployed yesterday, why it worked better than when Arsene used it and why it might just be the secret to getting the best out of Auba and Lacazette.
For large parts of the game, we looked solid defensively, the 3 center backs played well. However, the noticeable difference is the protection the center backs received. Under Wenger, Xhaka and Ramsey were the 2 in front and we know how that went. Torreria has transformed this team in so many ways that we are able transition between formations and achieve the desired outcome.
Moving forward, We have struggled to get the best out of Auba and Lacazette in the 4-2-3-1. We miss that defensive cover and width when Auba is played out wide. Kolasinac had a great game in that wing back role, providing both assists. We stretched the opposition and I think Auba, Lacazette and Ozil/Iwobi/Mkhi can cause issues centrally in a 3-4-1-2.
.
The Second Coming Of The 3-4-3
posted on 26/11/18
I'm pretty sure there was a period we were in great form with 3 at the back under Wenger, with Ox ripping it up at wing back. Messed up as things were under Wenger, can we stop pretending we were like Fulham?
posted on 26/11/18
Messed up as things were under Wenger, can we stop pretending we were like Fulham?
-----------------------------------
Arsenal ended up mid-table just like we did with George Graham when he was fired. We weren't fighting relegation but its the same low that has precipitated the firing of managers before so we weren't in some healthy position either. We were in decline. The problem is it was much easier in the past to climb back to the top. Now we have clubs competing against us that spend more than us. The board should have recognised the decline sooner and acted whilst we still had a squad qualifying in the top 4.
posted on 26/11/18
That's why I think the 3-4-1-2 would get the best out of the two front men.
It would give them the license to drift without being forced wide. Aubameyang can enjoy the luxury of getting on the end of things as he always does.
With Xhaka and Torreira siting in front of the 3 man defence, it would give ozil the opportunity to sit in the hole in between the lines and dictating play.
In addition, we would have wing backs in bellerin and kolasinac who would be stretching the opposition whilst providing assists.
Il reserve my judgement until we see it in action against a solid team.
posted on 26/11/18
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 24 minutes ago
Players to play on the right and left, they don't have to hug the lines but the only options are Iwobi and Mkhi. 442 is outdated anyway and not a fan of 3 at the back, almost no top teams play 2 strikers nowadays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And iwobi and Mkhi were both cutting in from out to in. Just like Pires and Freddie used to, the fullbacks used to provide the width in those days as well. The only difference to the attackers in those days was that Wenger played with 4 back, Gilberto, Vieira, Sol and Kolo to defend the counter attack. Emery likes to keep 5 back, yesterday he had 3 CBs and 2 midfield players, on other occasions he has used 3 midfield players and 2 centre backs to prevent the counter attack.
I prefer 3 midfield players and 2 centre backs rather than using an extra defender. We still conceded from the counter attack yesterday but missed an extra midfield player to control the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mkhi, Torreira, Xhaka, Iwobi would be a terrible midfield though that can't be compared to the invincibles. Auba and Laca would still struggle playing in front of that. Also the fact that Ozil can't play in that formation.
posted on 26/11/18
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 22 minutes ago
Messed up as things were under Wenger, can we stop pretending we were like Fulham?
-----------------------------------
Arsenal ended up mid-table just like we did with George Graham when he was fired. We weren't fighting relegation but its the same low that has precipitated the firing of managers before so we weren't in some healthy position either. We were in decline. The problem is it was much easier in the past to climb back to the top. Now we have clubs competing against us that spend more than us. The board should have recognised the decline sooner and acted whilst we still had a squad qualifying in the top 4.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You missed the point. The point was that in the 2016/2017 season, Wenger found success employing the 3-4-3 system. I was pointing out that we didn't just find some magic formula that we never did before because Emery used it in a game.
posted on 26/11/18
Was Torreira even used in a defensive capacity yesterday? I swear Emery told him to play much further forward. Look at where he was when Bournemouth countered us for the goal yesterday.
posted on 26/11/18
comment by Sheriff John Brown - Wenger Till I Die (U7482)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 22 minutes ago
Messed up as things were under Wenger, can we stop pretending we were like Fulham?
-----------------------------------
Arsenal ended up mid-table just like we did with George Graham when he was fired. We weren't fighting relegation but its the same low that has precipitated the firing of managers before so we weren't in some healthy position either. We were in decline. The problem is it was much easier in the past to climb back to the top. Now we have clubs competing against us that spend more than us. The board should have recognised the decline sooner and acted whilst we still had a squad qualifying in the top 4.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You missed the point. The point was that in the 2016/2017 season, Wenger found success employing the 3-4-3 system. I was pointing out that we didn't just find some magic formula that we never did before because Emery used it in a game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was not a success that you are making out. Whilst we were getting results at home because teams were not attacking us, our away results were diabolical and that was exposed in Wenger final season. In fact I used to state often on the match threads of how lucky we had been getting those results because managers had not adjusted to our change of system.
We won only 4 games away last season playing 3-4-3. And we only finished as high as we did because teams were not pressing us high at the Emirates. Suppose we had continued to play that way, don't you think teams would have done that to us this season?
posted on 26/11/18
Mkhi, Torreira, Xhaka, Iwobi would be a terrible midfield though that can't be compared to the invincibles. Auba and Laca would still struggle playing in front of that. Also the fact that Ozil can't play in that formation.
--------------------------------------
Oh I completely agree with you on that. Just wanted to make the point that our two best players are no doubt Lacazette and Aubameyang. Thats just reflected in their transfer values.
I think it important that Emery finds a way of combining those two upfront. Not putting Aubameyang on the wing. The rest are expendable imo and Emery's clean up the squad will hopefully begin in Jan or the summer.
posted on 26/11/18
It was not a success that you are making out.
---------------------------------------------------
The point was never whether it was a winning formula. The point is after we made the switch to 3-4-3 in April of the 2016/2017 season against Middlesborough, we came from 7 points behind the top 4 to just 1 point behind by the final day of the season. Also had crucial victories against City and Chelsea in the period that won us the FA Cup. What I'm pointing out here is that you can't be contrasting one match in which Emery played the formation with a much larger sample size under Wenger. I'm not convinced from anything I saw yesterday that the system will work better for us under Emery, as we lack certain players who can make it work.
posted on 26/11/18
Sheriff John Brown - Wenger Till I Die (U7482)
I am sorry I misunderstood your comment. It was specifically about the formation and not Wenger.
In that I agree with you. I don't think it will work either. I think Emery is trying to get the team used to a multitude of formations. Its very difficult for players to go from unstructured methods to strict regimens. Think Emery is trying to get them not to expect one thing or the other. So it keeps players on their toes.