as long as there isn't an almighty melt down before the end of the season I will be happy with OGS as full time manager as 2nd best option and might even be able to to convince myself he is a better option than Poch
first I think there are 3 things that make a great manager for a club. Bearing in mind a great manager at one club might be a horrible choice at another
1) Embracing the club ethos or the ability to impose his ethos on the club. Any manager coming into utd due to the legacy of SAF will have to embrace utd's ethos IMO. This is where moyes, LVG and jose failed. They had their own idea which is what made them a successful manager but these ideas were percieved as being contrarian to utd's ethos. So it became very easy for utd as a football club to dissociate from the failures of these managers. These managers failed not utd is the attitude, and not a very constructive one. Poch is seen as number 1 choice because mor than anyone else his ethos "appears" to align with utd. But OGS does not need to align because he embodies utd.
2)Man management. This is why SAF is unquestionable the best manager in the world. I have seen "hints" of this in OGS. One thing that strikes me about OGS is that he is some one who spent his career watching and listening and not letting his ego get in the way. This on reflection makes him the stand out candidate from SAF protegees. But only time will tell if this is a true observation or a machination of my imagination/hopes.
3) The coaching/tactics. I have zero idea of how good OGS is at this tbh. 10 years ago I would have confidently said excelling at point 1 and 2 were enough for a manager to be successful by utd's standards. But that is no longer the case with the wealth throughout the EPL and also the influx of some of the best tactical managers and coaches like pep/klopp/poch/sarri etc I am sceptical OGS can compare to these managers but all is not lost.
My reason for sayin all is not lost is one word delegation. Utd are currently in a phase we need to rebuild the backroom. So while OGS might not for example have the tactical nous of a pep, if we recruit the right staff to support him and he can "trust" the staff it could become something special.
Will an established manager like poch be completely open or trusting of such a structure or will he want to bring in his own men?
I will be the first to say it
posted on 18/1/19
One aspect under Jose was that he didn't coach (or do drills or plays with) the attacking players, as his view is that football is too random and players need to figure it out themselves.
While I agree with part of that, you do need coordination between the players and have ideas on what to do.
Young players, especially, will need guidance. Those that lack intelligence, will work better with drills and coaching play.
If you go dogmatically to one or the other, your players lose something. Too much freedom, you lose structure. Too much structure and you lose creativity. Jose failed to get that right here, amongst many other things.
One key thing is that Ole has allowed them to make mistakes again. That's one key aspect that was missing from Jose's time. The established players can make mistakes and still keep their places. Those that weren't, had little time to make impact and each mistake means they don't keep their place. Look at how Rashford was treated. Those front line was used under Jose once and he blasted it saying this is why he plays Lukaku. He took away belief the players had in themselves, that he didn't trust them and that any mistake isn't tolerated.
posted on 18/1/19
The current front line was used once*
posted on 18/1/19
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 7 hours, 21 minutes ago
He might well have said that, I just don’t think it’s made that much difference yet or made the difference in any of your games so far, what has made the difference has been the simpler but far more important changes in terms of just having a happier team that is playing the type of football they want to play.
I wouldn’t expect any more, it’s only been six games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They might be happier with their footballing lives, more suited to and enjoying the style of play the new coaching team has introduced, but I don't think we've seen any change in application or dedication. Just the effectiveness (for several reasons) of the tactical changes in action.
I think United fans would do well to reflect on the professionalism of the players, who despite the average results, pretty severe restrictions on their games, and oppressive management style of Mourinho's tenure (which included pretty derogatory comments being made about many of them very publicly), overwhelmingly performed admirably in their commitments on and off the pitch.
They trained well, prepared well and followed instructions on the pitch (likely often against their intuition and/or best judgement). Nobody missed training, nobody went missing (of their own volition), nobody downed tools or spoke publicly about de-motivation, about frustrations with the style of play or with the manager.
For all of the (vacuous) commentary around social media shenanigans, dabbing, haircuts and the like, given what they were subjected to, I think the players acted pretty admirably right to the end.
posted on 18/1/19
I think United fans would do well to reflect on the professionalism of the players, who despite the average results, pretty severe restrictions on their games, and oppressive management style of Mourinho's tenure (which included pretty derogatory comments being made about many of them very publicly), overwhelmingly performed admirably in their commitments on and off the pitch.
----------------------------------------------------
I very much agree with this. Applied to all of them, Pogba included. We were disjointed, indecisive, lacking in confidence at times. But I don't think we ever looked like we weren't trying.
posted on 18/1/19
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 8 hours, 18 minutes ago
He might well have said that, I just don’t think it’s made that much difference yet or made the difference in any of your games so far, what has made the difference has been the simpler but far more important changes in terms of just having a happier team that is playing the type of football they want to play.
I wouldn’t expect any more, it’s only been six games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree with you on this one, Melton.
There are some clear differences in what the players have been asked to do and they're already making a difference.
Some of it is relatively simple, granted, but not simple enough for Jose to do it apparently.
posted on 18/1/19
"There are some clear differences in what the players have been asked to do and they're already making a difference."
I'm saying exactly the same thing.
"Some of it is relatively simple, granted, but not simple enough for Jose to do it apparently."
Yes, that's ultimately my point. It wasn't the players that were really ever the issue, it was that you had a defensive manager that didn't set them up to get the best out of them, particularly the match winners.
What I am saying hasn't made much of a difference yet is any real tactical nuance as there's been nowhere near enough time for it to have done. Instead, its been the core of getting a positive manager in and changing your mentality.
I'm not saying any of it in a critical way, its exactly where it should be after only six games and shows what some have said for three years (including me) - that Mourinho was never the right fit.
posted on 18/1/19
meltonblue (U10617)
Ah okay - I think I misinterpreted your original comment.
posted on 18/1/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 27 minutes ago
I think United fans would do well to reflect on the professionalism of the players, who despite the average results, pretty severe restrictions on their games, and oppressive management style of Mourinho's tenure (which included pretty derogatory comments being made about many of them very publicly), overwhelmingly performed admirably in their commitments on and off the pitch.
----------------------------------------------------
I very much agree with this. Applied to all of them, Pogba included. We were disjointed, indecisive, lacking in confidence at times. But I don't think we ever looked like we weren't trying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 18/1/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
meltonblue (U10617)
Ah okay - I think I misinterpreted your original comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I said afterwards I typed it quickly and without any context so I would have done too! Thats my fault.
posted on 18/1/19
meltonblue (U10617)
I'll share the blame with you then!