When you are young you have nothing behind you, and all your future in front of you. When middle aged it's half and half, and you find yourself saying "do you remember when...".
When you are old, as me, it's all behind you and much less to come. That's why all your grandparents talk about the old days, which is what I'm going to do. Football then, now and in between.
Munich memories got me started. It's easy to think everything in the past was better, it wasn't. Or that everything new is, it isn't.
In terms of teams the current side would beat the pre Munich side comfortably. Bigger, fitter, better coached, planned by computer, better training and health care. But that's only half the story.
Take Stanley Matthews, the most famous player of his generation, how would he fair now. Stanley didn't tackle, track back, score goals or head the ball. So what could he do ? He could beat his fullback every time, it was a kind of magic. He approached the fullnack, at the last second came inside, ot so it seemed, but with a nanosecond to go before le lost it he flicked it round the outside and was away, he was fit and fast Stanley. Then he could cross, really cross. Tommy Lawton used to say, as a joke, which way he wanted the laces facing.
Could he do it today in the same way, no, there wouldn't be one full back, there would be two marking him, as fast as him, they would have watched clips and known what he was going to do. But suppose he came along now, the same body and skills, but now modern equipment ,training etc. I doubt he would be as big a star but I'm sure he would be a PL footballer. (for the non scientist a nanosecond is commonly known as a jiffy).
Then there are some players from then who would be stars now unchanged, step forward Duncan Edwards and Tommy Taylor, you don't, of course, have to take my word for their talents, but you will have to take my word that they would have thrived and been stars now.What they had never goes out of fashion, talent, strength and the knowledge of how to use it. Any others, Charlton, Law, Best and Robbo, these are definites, and probably one or two others.
On the other hand just about every current player would be a first teamer pre munich, and most in the 1968 team.
One thing they would have to change though is their attitude to fair play, it used to be something to be proud of. I can only imagine the look of scorn on the players then if one of the side had dived, or rolled around in simulated agony. Dunc was one of the hardest players I have seen, not dirty, strong, fast and hard. George wasn't hard but he hardly ever ended on the floor, he would do all he could to stay on his feet.
Our present side, at least under Ole, is a good side, but unusually for United we are lacking in stars, only Dave really, but they would all do well in the past, especially, I think, Shaw, Martial, Rashford and Mata.
So, football goes on, changes in equipment and formations.But the verities remain, and always will, talent, fitness and knowing how to apply it.
I would love to see a team made up from the Munich team and 1968 team play against a current United team. I'm not going to make a prediction but it would be exciting , and open a fewer younger peoples eyes.
Anyway, let's beat Fulham, keep it going and make some memories for the new generation.
Then and now.
posted on 7/2/19
comment by babyen ansikt snikmorder (U9094)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 12 minutes ago
These are the best articles on the United board. (And often the Best articles on the United board. Thanks, I'm here all week...)
So thanks again, 52.
I'm interested to learn why you think Shaw, Martial, Rashford and Mata in particular would have fared well in times passed. Attitude, demeanour, temperament? Physicality? Or certain technical attributes?
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Not quite as 'old' as the OP (only became a fan/supporter in the 60s) but I can assure you, of those four, only Mata would be guaranteed a place in every United squad since 1968.
Martial and Rashford = no chance. For start both are very easy for a good defender to mark out of a game. They lack vision and team intelligence. Pretty certain I could still mark Rashford out of a game for ten minutes before the genes inevitably kicked in.
But back to Mata. There have obviously been many great players in every squad that I have watched, and in some of those Mata would probably struggle to get automatic starts. Whereas in this current squad his name should be (alongside pogba and lukaku) one of the first names on the team sheet.
That plus he was certainly good enough to be in the same squad (if not the first team) as ALL the United greats since 1968 at least.
Badly used by the club as far as I am concerned.
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You aren't even subtle. Barry Smith, you are not. Poor imitation of Stretty at best.
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What a strange existence. Appears every few days, posts some really poor wumming, then disappears.
posted on 8/2/19
Always enjoy reading your articles, M52. They may not create much discussion but they are very much appreciated.
As are Rosso's articles on the youth teams.
posted on 8/2/19
A really good personal view analysis comparison of the different eras of football. I really enjoyed it. I sat there with chin resting on one hand and phone in the other - like an intrigued child listening to the wonderful folk tales. Nostalgia and comparison at its best OP
I value your honest opinions about how different eras of teams would fare against each other if it ever happened.
Look forward to more articles like this
posted on 8/2/19
Pretty certain I could still mark Rashford out of a game for ten minutes before the genes inevitably kicked in.
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I'm certain you couldn't. You'd get Nathan Ake'd every time he got you 1v1.
posted on 8/2/19
Very interesting post by the way, 52. Sometimes when I see videos of the greats I'm astounded that they were able to play like they did on the pitches they did.
Best, for example, was able to retain close control at speed on pitches that would quite literally be deemed unplayable in modern times. I can only imagine what he'd be capable of in the modern game.
Incidentally, I don't actually agree with your arguments despite finding your perspective very interesting and insightful.
The modern game is undoubtedly more challenging. You just have to watch old videos to know that, you don't need a particular insight or age. Defender's were more reckless, tactics weren't nearly as developed and teams didn't have the same level of organisation. In many ways, it was a park kick about with really good players. No doubt, if you dumped someone like Matthews in the modern game they'd look out of place.. if you threw them in blind.
That said, the greats of the past shouldn't be beaten with the stick of not having access to modern day tactics/tech/equipment/diet etc.. These boys played in a different generation, but fundamentally were the best at what they did bar none in that generation. There's little doubt in my mind that they would be quite different players, because they would have the benefit of everything I've just mentioned, but the fundamental talent that set them apart from their contemporaries would remain.
posted on 8/2/19
You write very well 52.
But wasting your time trying to get a reaction from this lot. Football started in 1992 unfortunately and thats the end of it. Even though our club's identity is well and truly entrenched in the 50s and 60s. Before my time, but stories about the 70s and 80s (my salad days as a United supporter) will equally draw a blank).
posted on 9/2/19
I don't think it's a waste of time at all.
I started supporting United due to my older brother and seeing Giggs making his debut. My father wasn't interested in spectator sports though he did like to wrestle. We didn't have that connection to the past when growing up. We had to learn it from books in the library or magazines like Match and Shoot.
So for me, it's all before my time. I enjoy listening (or in this case reading) about the times before. Especially from a fan's view of that time.
This attitude that certain fans see football starting in 1992 is absurd. My youngest brother was born after that time. Football for them started when they got into it. Everything before then is history that they were not a part of.
posted on 9/2/19
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/2/19
I expect nothing less from you, though. You're not someone that has recently been talking about how he would bring his iPad to games if he got better reception, so instead talks about bringing a book to read. A guy that WHINES that he's forced to go to games simply because he's already spent so much money on tickets.
eh?
Dave you are quite obviously obsessed with me I think. I post a point ofview and you have a go cos you dont like it.
Any you dont come close to me as a supporter. You a re internet cretin who knows feck all about United, Ive been to 1000s of United games in my lifetimes. I have had access to a ST at old Trafford since 1972 and ben to most home games since then. I went to my first cup final in 1976. Been abroad several times with them. Been battererd by Police and other fans as a United supporter. Got crushed in Leppings Lane End at Sheffield in 76 and 77There for the grace of God.
And an idiot like you says
WHAT A FECKING EXCEPTIONAL SUPPORTER!
Well I am and I dont think there is a better one here anyway than me.
Fans like you dave is everything that is wrong with football supporters today.
posted on 9/2/19
comment by I'll be The Judge of that! (U21434)
posted 32 minutes ago
I expect nothing less from you, though. You're not someone that has recently been talking about how he would bring his iPad to games if he got better reception, so instead talks about bringing a book to read. A guy that WHINES that he's forced to go to games simply because he's already spent so much money on tickets.
eh?
Dave you are quite obviously obsessed with me I think. I post a point ofview and you have a go cos you dont like it.
Any you dont come close to me as a supporter. You a re internet cretin who knows feck all about United, Ive been to 1000s of United games in my lifetimes. I have had access to a ST at old Trafford since 1972 and ben to most home games since then. I went to my first cup final in 1976. Been abroad several times with them. Been battererd by Police and other fans as a United supporter. Got crushed in Leppings Lane End at Sheffield in 76 and 77There for the grace of God.
And an idiot like you says
WHAT A FECKING EXCEPTIONAL SUPPORTER!
Well I am and I dont think there is a better one here anyway than me.
Fans like you dave is everything that is wrong with football supporters today.
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Nibs