Juan Mata in the middle.....

comment by Wonder Man (U11164)
posted 5 minutes ago
It is difficult to afford Mata that position a lot of the time. If you’re not playing the diamond, you’d either have to play him in a midfield 3 where he’d be further back in the field, or in a 4231 which would mean having 2 holding players
I think it would be a struggle to play Mata and Pogba in a 433. Hence shifting him to the right allows him to be further forward and for us to maintain dynamism in midfield
I can see the temptation to do this against the weaker teams as he can be a magician at unlocking tight defences. But with this you do lose a lot of the energy you’d get from a more traditional winger
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Yeah and given the creativity similarity the temptation would be to use him as a replacement for Pogba.
However Herrera plays pretty deep at present, almost in a 2 with Matic. Until Martial/Lingard are back I wouldn't mind the 4-2-3-1 with Pogba on the left, Mata at #10 and Rashford on the right. Sanchez as a false 9 where he won't lost the ball as much, but will press more than Lukaku and can still be a menace.

comment by Benched (U7195)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Wonder Man (U11164)
posted 5 minutes ago
It is difficult to afford Mata that position a lot of the time. If you’re not playing the diamond, you’d either have to play him in a midfield 3 where he’d be further back in the field, or in a 4231 which would mean having 2 holding players
I think it would be a struggle to play Mata and Pogba in a 433. Hence shifting him to the right allows him to be further forward and for us to maintain dynamism in midfield
I can see the temptation to do this against the weaker teams as he can be a magician at unlocking tight defences. But with this you do lose a lot of the energy you’d get from a more traditional winger
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Yeah and given the creativity similarity the temptation would be to use him as a replacement for Pogba.
However Herrera plays pretty deep at present, almost in a 2 with Matic. Until Martial/Lingard are back I wouldn't mind the 4-2-3-1 with Pogba on the left, Mata at #10 and Rashford on the right. Sanchez as a false 9 where he won't lost the ball as much, but will press more than Lukaku and can still be a menace.
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If Pogba is rested/ unavailable I think he is then a crucial member of the squad
But yes, I think Pogba looked at his best when he drifted left tonight so it’s certainly an option
With the personnel you’ve mentioned though, I think you’d probably just see the diamond used.
Having said that, there were plenty of times tonight that you could argue we were in that shape. With Herrera deep with Matic, Pogba drifting left and Rashford right.
I think the diamond allows our players to be fluid in attack so you do often see them pop up in different areas

Mata actually had some very very good games playing down the right for us in LvGs first season... Remember the excellent combination play between him, Hererra and Valencia down the right in several games at the back end of that season?

The diamond was a good tactic for today's game because of Jorginho... Wouldn't be ideal most other times, so Mata will find himself on the right more often than not in most back 4 formations...

Solskjaer learned his lesson about Mata against PSG. Tactically brilliant yesterday.

comment by Memphis_bleek #United (U20611)
posted 6 hours, 56 minutes ago
Mata actually had some very very good games playing down the right for us in LvGs first season... Remember the excellent combination play between him, Hererra and Valencia down the right in several games at the back end of that season?

The diamond was a good tactic for today's game because of Jorginho... Wouldn't be ideal most other times, so Mata will find himself on the right more often than not in most back 4 formations...
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4 years ago. And it is quite rare.

I have no beef against Mata but his "niceness" and reputation glosses over his contributions.

For one his passes lack any real ingenuity these days. The safe sideways pass is ok for a central midfielder in a less withdrawn role, but in an attacking role it is pointless.

Second in a system that depends on pressing high up, he is counterproductive to it. Jorginho was sheit today and he really couldn't get close to him. Herrera (God bless him) and Pogba had to do his pressing for him. Even when he gets to the player he is turned so easily losing containment and defeating the purpose of a high press in the first place.

Thirdly, his lack of pace means in a counter attacking style we play now, he can't get fully involved. Why many where freaked out yesterday was because we had Lukaku and Mata, both of whom are just not what you need in the formation playing in a front 3. Thank Feck for Herrera (bless him) and Pogba making up ground for our counter attacks.

I'm watching so many lower league attacking midfielders and they walk into his position and render him absolutely pointless in less than a month. We do this all the time and it is a sign of our loyalty to players (which is a good thing) but we need to be able to see when the player is done and move on. It baffles me how we manage to lose a "big name" player and they suddenly are not good enough for even a top 10 team. Rooney left us and one year later he was playing in America. So many defended his half decent performances too.

Mata is a player who needs the whole team to work around him for him to succeed and he just isn't good enough for that.

Mata's job yesterday wasn't to press Jorginho, though.

And he was the player who launched and was most involved in our first goal yesterday. Which was a counterattack.

comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
Mata's job yesterday wasn't to press Jorginho, though.

And he was the player who launched and was most involved in our first goal yesterday. Which was a counterattack.
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With maybe his only forward pass of the half that was anything close to a through pass (it was really the only pass open). And again, kudos to him, but it was the defensive midfielder who had to hustle into the box while Pogba did legovers waiting for a run. He didn't bother, he wasn't getting there. In a counter attacking formation?? he needs to be there or at least trying to get there in case of a knock down from a defender or a cut back.

Compare it to Pogba, setting Rashford off and getting into the Box.

Understand this, We need more than nice tidy passes from him in that position and that is really all he offers.

comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 12 hours, 26 minutes ago
https://twitter.com/themanutdway/status/1097614414713405440?s=21

Things like this, and his interview after the game, give him the armband.
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Mentioned it on here a few times, from the second season of LvG's reign he has been the obvious stand out for captaincy and I'm not even sure why we give it to Chris Smalling over him. It feels more like a seniority position at the moment rather than the right man for the job.

comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
Mata's job yesterday wasn't to press Jorginho, though.

And he was the player who launched and was most involved in our first goal yesterday. Which was a counterattack.
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With maybe his only forward pass of the half that was anything close to a through pass (it was really the only pass open). And again, kudos to him, but it was the defensive midfielder who had to hustle into the box while Pogba did legovers waiting for a run. He didn't bother, he wasn't getting there. In a counter attacking formation?? he needs to be there or at least trying to get there in case of a knock down from a defender or a cut back.

Compare it to Pogba, setting Rashford off and getting into the Box.

Understand this, We need more than nice tidy passes from him in that position and that is really all he offers.
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You understand that he created that goal, right?

And you understand why Ole singled him out for praise after the game?

I've not rated Mata for a few years now but I have to admit, if we stick with a diamond formation, I believe he would be the best option for the no.10 role, ahead of Lingard who's final ball simply isn't reliable enough.