Interesting speech regarding brexit and EU

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 7 hours, 3 minutes ago

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 11 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 3 minutes ago

Its not an interesting speech at all, using a bunch of "if" statements and theorising based on the speakers base ideals , which are at the very least xenophobic, islamaphobic and probably mask a lot of racism too.

Calling it "interesting" to put to a wider audience just shows that the OP is being used or trying to use the wider audience to propagate this idiocy.

Complete non starter, and blaming outside factors shows how much borrowing from mein kampf there is.

Facking daft to not see the connotations.
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You too have failed to see the point that I was making.

Have I said that I agree with the speaker?

The is a rise in far right politics across quite a few countries in Europe. We are seeing it in the UK and it has partly resulted in Brexit. If we do end up leaving, Brexit is going to be used as a tool by far right parties/politicians across Europe, which could see the populace of other countries push for their own referendum. Especially if the UK leaving the EU has negative impact on some of these countries.
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Who said you agreed? You've not actually made that clear yet.

Lie down with dogs, get fleas
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Apology accepted.

comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 4 hours, 6 minutes ago

Accusing him of being racist doesn't really make sense in this case. He was just ignorant of who he was spreading the message of and their motivations.

Once pointed that it's from a far right extremist and just opinion rather than anything factual then you should admit you made a mistake though.
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What mistake do you think that I have made? Just because the speaker is far right doesn't mean that the points made by her in that speech don't have value/aren't of interest. I find it bizarre that people are happy to completely disregard everything said by someone that they view as being 'bad'. As though it is impossible that you can't agree with anything that they say.

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 4 hours, 6 minutes ago

Accusing him of being racist doesn't really make sense in this case. He was just ignorant of who he was spreading the message of and their motivations.

Once pointed that it's from a far right extremist and just opinion rather than anything factual then you should admit you made a mistake though.
---------------------

What mistake do you think that I have made? Just because the speaker is far right doesn't mean that the points made by her in that speech don't have value/aren't of interest. I find it bizarre that people are happy to completely disregard everything said by someone that they view as being 'bad'. As though it is impossible that you can't agree with anything that they say.
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It's more that it's an opinion speech rather than factual. If it was factual then it wouldn't matter so much that it comes from a member of AfD.

I very rarely comment on off-topic comments not his site. In fact, I have opinedd ad nauseam that this site should be sports-related or nowt ( alas, i still hold said opinions) but I have already made a little foray into this and so I enter again.

Don't really know ( or care about) Elvis or anyone's politics here per se but In general, I find the erosion of civility more distressing than almost anything in the world atm ( even more than gross inequality) because erosion of civility breeds all manner of isms and other nonsense.

I also understand a POV ( even though I don't endorse it) that the time to be civil is over because there are significant and divisive issues that must be dealt with and major changes which are required. However, this isn’t an either-or situation, or at least it doesn’t have to be. It’s possible to be civil and engage with contentious and emotionally charged issues; it’s just much more difficult. Furthermore, the internet has removed a lot of incentive to be civil, and it is bleeding over offline, I think.

Civility is important because ultimately we need to be able to reach compromises, develop mutual understandings, and at least respect each other in order to make any progress, much less function.

Civility is demarcated from action. At the end of the day, it depends on the outcome: if one's outcome is to shout the loudest, blow off some steam, feel like you have won an argument or energise the already converted ( Trump is a master of all these but some forces on the left are too), then there is little benefit to being 'civil'.

On the other hand, if your desired outcome if you want to change hearts and minds, challenge some convictions or even just convince them to be open to alternative POVs that are somewhat reasonable, civility is important, a sine qua non to further engagement.
Incivility causes people to shut down and become defensive, hostile and nasty ( as evidenced by the interaction between Red Russian and Elvis above) respect from the opposition.


In this era of bizarreness, rancour and fake news and the likes, what is the preferred outcome? Incivility in our discourse leads to incivility in our thoughts; incivility in our thoughts leads to incivility in our actions. Conversely, civil discourse fosters civil thinking.

Does that mean that the despicable Rod Liddle is going to become a bastion of logic if he treats people who disagree with him with respect? Ef no. It just means that he likely would be worse if he embraced incivility.

I recognize that these days it is a sisphyan task to try and convince people to even consider alternative interpretations or viewpoints. I gave up a long time ago trying to convince unreasonable people on the internet or even point them to the facts/data and have them make their own conclusion, but I feel that incivility and unreasonableness are self-reinforcing. Anecdotal evidence (and therefore worthless beyond exemplification), but I’ve found civility to be very effective in getting people to recognize an opposing view point.

sisyphean*

comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 13 minutes ago

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 4 hours, 6 minutes ago

Accusing him of being racist doesn't really make sense in this case. He was just ignorant of who he was spreading the message of and their motivations.

Once pointed that it's from a far right extremist and just opinion rather than anything factual then you should admit you made a mistake though.
---------------------

What mistake do you think that I have made? Just because the speaker is far right doesn't mean that the points made by her in that speech don't have value/aren't of interest. I find it bizarre that people are happy to completely disregard everything said by someone that they view as being 'bad'. As though it is impossible that you can't agree with anything that they say.
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It's more that it's an opinion speech rather than factual. If it was factual then it wouldn't matter so much that it comes from a member of AfD.
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Is it opinion that Germany will lose one of its biggest voting allies?

Dave

Just logged in specifically to echo Robb's comment - that's one of the best posts I've read on here in a long time.

You are bang on.

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 13 minutes ago

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 4 hours, 6 minutes ago

Accusing him of being racist doesn't really make sense in this case. He was just ignorant of who he was spreading the message of and their motivations.

Once pointed that it's from a far right extremist and just opinion rather than anything factual then you should admit you made a mistake though.
---------------------

What mistake do you think that I have made? Just because the speaker is far right doesn't mean that the points made by her in that speech don't have value/aren't of interest. I find it bizarre that people are happy to completely disregard everything said by someone that they view as being 'bad'. As though it is impossible that you can't agree with anything that they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's more that it's an opinion speech rather than factual. If it was factual then it wouldn't matter so much that it comes from a member of AfD.
--------------

Is it opinion that Germany will lose one of its biggest voting allies?
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Definitely not, it almost certainly will be damaging to Germany in more ways than one (initially at least).

In regard to UK concessions asked for by DC, the UK already benefits from several concessions, there's only so far you can go. If all other member states become more and more disadvantaged against one then it causes issues with the whole idea of the EU.

Then she accuses them of indifference when the EU has been far more concise and prepared than our own government... this is not opinion. They laid out options and a path, it is our own government that can not agree. I doubt they could agree on what facking day of the week it is.

Then she sights how the legislation is a problem, this is legislation that Germany and Britain were the contributors of.

You have got to be a bit dim to consider Elvis a racist if you have been on this website for any time.

However.... many on here have fallen into the trap of allowing racists such as this woman (who speaks mainly drivel due to the nature of their disposition) throw in some teasers to placate the more liberal minded in order to allow them to keep pursuing their 'solution' in a mainstream arena.

Its like saying that Hitler was a good egg cos he got the unemployed digging the roads and the trains ran on time.

comment by I'll be The Judge of that! (U21434)
posted 25 minutes ago
You have got to be a bit dim to consider Elvis a racist if you have been on this website for any time.

However.... many on here have fallen into the trap of allowing racists such as this woman (who speaks mainly drivel due to the nature of their disposition) throw in some teasers to placate the more liberal minded in order to allow them to keep pursuing their 'solution' in a mainstream arena.

Its like saying that Hitler was a good egg cos he got the unemployed digging the roads and the trains ran on time.
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Pretty much. The context of this woman and her political party is very important