and my final go at this. There are two possibilities, either I'm wrong (not for the first time) or I haven't put my point of view well enough, I'm hoping for the latter.
Statistics for fans are useless imo.
The reason being football is entirely a team game. What the goal keeper does can affect the left winger for example, does he tend to kick or throw more to one side of the pitch than the other. Is he good at distribution.
Toor (sorry Toor this is not to get at you) made the argument that Henderson is a better passer than Herrara. Now I'm not going to argue who is the best, but he used stats to show that Henderson passed the ball forward more often and successfully than Herrera. But does that take into account the the Liverpool front three may be more fluid than Lukaku and Martial, show for the ball more, make space, no it doesn't.
It could be that we should look at striker A because he has 25 goals per season. But in which team, what formation, with his head, left foot or right foot, penalties, inside or outside of the box. Is he good with crosses or balls played to his feet through the midfield. ete etc.
I can't think of any stat that even remotely compares with watching, if you have the computer and programme the pros do, then of course. We don't so it's all pretty meaningless.
I never get any agreement for this view, but I thought I would have a last shot at it.
Statistics
posted on 19/5/19
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/5/19
You're wrong. Stats are not useless. Stats are not the be all and end all. There is some ground in between. It doesnt have to be one extreme or the other.
posted on 19/5/19
Also I only showed the stats as what people said went completely against the facts. People often state Henderson only passes backwards and sideways short and therefore his passing isn't good. The stats prove both of those things wrong compared to Herrera who he was being compared against. Those stats weren't useless as they categorically proved those two statements wrong.
posted on 19/5/19
Yes, but it doesn't prove he is the better passer than Herrera for the reasons I outlined. It only proves people wrong in their comments about him. It may settle an argument, but I am referring to assessing a players capabilities.
posted on 19/5/19
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
Yes, but it doesn't prove he is the better passer than Herrera for the reasons I outlined. It only proves people wrong in their comments about him. It may settle an argument, but I am referring to assessing a players capabilities.
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Correct. It adds weight to it however. So I have my eyes having watched them both play and I have the statistics adding weight to what my eyes saw. Whereas others simply have their eyes and when you bring bias into it, the eyes can sometimes be deceiving.
posted on 19/5/19
Yes, I'll concede that. In the same way a striker who scores 30 a season is likely to be better than one who scores 10. But it's not definite nor does it mean that they will do it in your own team.
posted on 19/5/19
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 42 minutes ago
Yes, I'll concede that. In the same way a striker who scores 30 a season is likely to be better than one who scores 10. But it's not definite nor does it mean that they will do it in your own team.
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I don't disagree.
posted on 20/5/19
It's the same as most statistics, they do have value but can be misleading without context. For example, if wages rise every year it points to people being better off year on year. However if inflation rises above that of wages it points to the opposite.
Stats in football have value even to fans but the context is equally important. Scoring 40 goals in League 1 is an excellent stat, but when you a re playing weak opposition and have more games it looks less impressive.
posted on 20/5/19
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 20 hours, 24 minutes ago
A teams specific tactics does of course influence certain stats so you're right when you say it isn't as black and white as someone with a higher successful pass accuracy is the better passer. That said, I think a stat like assists is a very valid stat and does in the main paint the correct picture.
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Assists tell a kinda story but put a handful of crosses into a poor CF an you won't get many assists.
I personally hate stats in Football. Just watch the game, and you can see who are the good players and not so good. This of course brings it down to opinion, which is fine with me!