The Rooney Rule

comment by Sem (U9729)
posted 31 minutes ago
Question....

I'm from Bosnia

Can I get away with being minority?

If so I'm applying for my coaching badges in the morning and going for the man utd job

Good money, solskjaer is replaceable and it ain't too far from where i live

Lavely job
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re not a minority in this country.

So the majority of the people in this country are Bosnian?

comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
So the majority of the people in this country are Bosnian?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No.

They’re white.

Big chip on your shoulder, Just an observation

A lot of people upset that a black man would be given a chance at an interview alongside those who would be interviewed anyway.

comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 8 minutes ago
A lot of people upset that a black man would be given a chance at an interview alongside those who would be interviewed anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Right person for the job, black, white, yellow of facking blue.

It would be really helpful to get some clarity on how English Football League sides actually recruit their managers.

If you take the "lowest level" of management this rule will effect, which is League Two - I thought I'd have a look at the backgrounds of the 5 most recent appointments.

Ryan Lowe - He finished his playing career at Bury as a player-coach. After their manager was sacked he took over as caretaker then relinquished the role once a new manager was appointed stepping back to coaching. The second manager was sacked and Lowe again took over as caretaker, eventually taking on the role full time. The club enjoyed success under his management, with 3 League 1 manager of the month awards however off-field problems meant players were going unpaid and he's now taken a job at League 2 Plymouth.

John Dempster - Signed for Mansfield Town in 2012, retired 2015. Took over as academy manager in 2015, had a brief spell as caretaker then eventually took over as manager in 2019.

Paul Hurst - Retired from playing in 2008. Started management in the Northern Premier League with Ilkeston Town, leading them to promotion. Took over Boston United as joint manager in the same League - won promotion again.
On to Grimsby Town again as joint manager but then as solo after his partner was sacked due to misconduct - again won promotion.
On to Shrewsbury "Hurst was selected from a field of over 100 candidates", steered the club out of relegation as per his brief for getting the job.
Moved to Championship club Ipswich Town where he suffered his failure as a manager, quickly sacked.
He has just been appointed manager of League 2 Scunthorpe United.

Darrell Clarke - 2010-13 Player-manager at conference side and led them to promotion.
Took over as assistant manager at Bristol Rovers in 2013 then took over as manager in 2014 with the club in trouble and they were eventually relegated.
Got promotion the following season, 3 manager of the month awards and then got promoted again the season after that. He turned down offers from Norwich and Leeds but eventually left Bristol citing the clubs wage policy and infrastructure.
Just took over at League Two Walsall.

Gary Bowyer - After some non-league management he took over as Derby County under 17s coach then became under 18s coach at Blackburn Rovers in 2004. Then reserve manager in 2008 and finally caretaker for brief periods in 2012-13. Then in 2013 got the manager job at Blackburn.
Took over Blackpool in 2016 and was relegated then promoted.
Has just taken over at League two Bradford City.


All of those either got their break while players so were already in the club (proving first hand what they could do) or started way down the leagues or were working as youth managers and worked their way up.

All achieved success, some promoted several times. Looking at it all of these managers more than earned their way.

Top level Football is ruthless, it's about achievements and is completely dog eat dog. People seem to be confusing the world of football with low to mid level recruitment in the regular workplace.

There is absolutely no evidence that managers are selected or not selected due to skin colour. This new rule makes a mockery of the real effort required by all potential managers regardless of skin colour to make it to the top.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/rooney-rule-black-managers-indisputable-data-football-jonathan-liew-a8379111.html

At a wider level, just 7 per cent of the current Premier League and Football League managers, and 2.6 per cent of all the permanent managers in Premier League history, are BAME. And according to the League Managers’ Association, almost two thirds of all the BAME managers in Football League history never got a second job.
-------
Also from the article but not just base around football:

And so it’s relevant that Ucas data shows that ethnic minority students are less likely than white students to be offered university places with the same predicted A-Level grades. It’s relevant that a 2009 study found that job applicants with a “white-sounding” name like Andrew Clarke were 74 per cent more likely to get an interview than those with “black-sounding” names like Anthony Olukayode.
-----------------
If you think there isn't an issue here, fine. But that's as good as burying your head in the sand.

I don't think the Rooney Rule is a good one. But the lack of action or even acknowledging something isn't right is a big issue.
==============
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/14/why-so-few-black-football-managers

One, whom he prefers not to name, is a 40-something ex-pro who played more than 500 matches at Premier League and Championship level and now holds a Uefa Pro Licence, the highest coaching qualification. He has applied for 43 jobs in football clubs, but only received three interviews.

“When he was a younger man and it was becoming apparent he wanted to go into coaching, some of the older black guys said to him: ‘You’re wasting your time, you won’t get an opportunity.’ And he was saying to these guys: ‘No, no, it’s different now.’ But now he’s in the same position and he was saying to me the other day: ‘I hate to say it, but they were right. I was naive. I didn’t think these barriers existed or were as strong as they are.’ The worst thing is when people are appointed to jobs with fewer qualifications and less experience than him and he’s not even granted an interview.”
----
So much for the best person getting the job regardless of their skin tone.

When studies and reports have shown that there is an implicit bias I society, its unreasonable to think this
doesn't translate into football.

comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 6 hours, 29 minutes ago
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/rooney-rule-black-managers-indisputable-data-football-jonathan-liew-a8379111.html

At a wider level, just 7 per cent of the current Premier League and Football League managers, and 2.6 per cent of all the permanent managers in Premier League history, are BAME. And according to the League Managers’ Association, almost two thirds of all the BAME managers in Football League history never got a second job.
-------
Also from the article but not just base around football:

And so it’s relevant that Ucas data shows that ethnic minority students are less likely than white students to be offered university places with the same predicted A-Level grades. It’s relevant that a 2009 study found that job applicants with a “white-sounding” name like Andrew Clarke were 74 per cent more likely to get an interview than those with “black-sounding” names like Anthony Olukayode.
-----------------
If you think there isn't an issue here, fine. But that's as good as burying your head in the sand.

I don't think the Rooney Rule is a good one. But the lack of action or even acknowledging something isn't right is a big issue.
==============
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/14/why-so-few-black-football-managers

One, whom he prefers not to name, is a 40-something ex-pro who played more than 500 matches at Premier League and Championship level and now holds a Uefa Pro Licence, the highest coaching qualification. He has applied for 43 jobs in football clubs, but only received three interviews.

“When he was a younger man and it was becoming apparent he wanted to go into coaching, some of the older black guys said to him: ‘You’re wasting your time, you won’t get an opportunity.’ And he was saying to these guys: ‘No, no, it’s different now.’ But now he’s in the same position and he was saying to me the other day: ‘I hate to say it, but they were right. I was naive. I didn’t think these barriers existed or were as strong as they are.’ The worst thing is when people are appointed to jobs with fewer qualifications and less experience than him and he’s not even granted an interview.”
----
So much for the best person getting the job regardless of their skin tone.

When studies and reports have shown that there is an implicit bias I society, its unreasonable to think this
doesn't translate into football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it translated to football then teams would have fewer BAME players than the percentage of BAME people in the country?

"As the 2017-18 season began the proportion was 33%."
https://talksport.com/football/269320/proportion-british-bame-players-has-doubled-premier-league-began-talksport-special-report/ (sorry it was Talksport or the Sun for the link, I chose the least worst option)

What is required of a player and what is required of a manager are different things. Skills are looked at and not all players are from England.

We had a thread a few months ago that covered how black players are seen. I think the Guardian article touches on it as well. Black players physical aspects are focused about more than their mental/in game intelligence aspect.

Other parts of the report shows that the older BAME players saw these hurdles and were put off by them.

Personally, I do think it will change in the future but the issue is there are things now preventing them from getting an equal chance. The FA need to create a way to take these down. I don't think the Rooney Rule is effective in this. I see it as a lazy way for those in the FA not to solve the issue but to just show they are doing something about it. The positive I can see from it is that it might help lower down the football ladder and then the few BAME managers can then build their reputation up.