When we’re looking at our inability to translate our dominance in matches into goals scored and points won, I think you have to take a step back and look at overall picture, it’s not as simple as just replacing a striker.
Bielsa transformed an average squad into a well performing squad with little assistance from the club in terms of provision of effective players.
Bielsa himself said you can’t expect a repeat from these players, intimation that better was needed, has the club provided him with better?
We’re not improving the squad by re-signing Harrison or Clarke,we’ee Not improving the squad by selling top scorer and best defender, we’re not improving squad by never replacing Saiz.
It’s a false argument to say look at goals conceded or points gained as we saw from last season, those stats after 10 or so games count for nothing when final table comes.
Our problems come from one or more of 3 areas:
Bielsa’s approach
Support from club
Calibre of players
Bielsa’s approach has proven to be effective but not effective enough. I would have hoped that second season would have seen a better understanding of how to be effective in this league, but one worries that Bielsa is too stubborn. We are paying an absolute fortune for his services but we’re not getting the results one would hope for after last season. A world class coach must surely be able to think his way around his to be more effective from corners, work out how best to use Eddie and how uk get midfielders scoring goals.
Support from the club in terms of transfers has been poor. How many of these players are proving or have proven their worth?
Baker
Brown
Harrison
Blackman
Bamford
Kiko
Douglas
Messlier
Costa
Nketiah
I round say only really Nketiah and even then he gets about 15 mins per game.
Loanees last season cost us 5 mill, more loanees will cost us more this season and we’re committed to paying 15 mill for Costa.
It feels like AR has just tried to buy success from Wolves yet Douglas fails to start ahead of player played out of position, Bielsa saying Costa doesnt really fit into his system.
And conversely you can’t sell top scorer and expect to score so many goals, you can’t sell too defender who scores goals and expect to score so many goals, we have a real lack of firepower that may well cost us this season.
Douglas costa and bamford are 25 mill of mediocrity at present.
This leads into 3rd point. When you’re spending these sums you expect quality. We all thought Douglas was quality signing would be providing lots of assists. Costa would tear up this league, Bamfords goal per game ratio suggested goals galore this season when fit but it doesn’t turn out this way.
The players we have signed rarely match up to what we hope for and what is needed and this I believe is the real key to our issues, we have to really have a think about how we’re recruiting and if we’re retaining right players though contracts and timeliness of discussions.
The root of the problem
posted on 24/10/19
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NJS (U8272)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 11 hours, 18 minutes ago
I think it’s a really good thread Jonty.
My take on things, for what it’s worth, is that we’ve a bright intelligent striker who’s perhaps overthinking things (because he’s bright), & he’s carrying the role of sole striker too much. The more he misses, the more he thinks, so on and so on. We’ve got Eddie in the wings & perhaps it’s time to try him. A Saiz like player who draws defenders would help too I’m sure.
We create, we play well mostly - though corners need a rethink as we’re useless for the most part, but all in all, if we tucked a few more of the chances away I think real confidence would flow. We seem a bit like arsenal of a few years ago, we seem to want to pass it into the net instead of kicking the lining out of the ball from time to time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting theory...so now you're suggesting he's too
intelligent to score...I had the same problem once
upon a time, turned out to be erectile dysfunction...
I wonder if Bamford is suffering the same problem,
judging by his body language?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only once upon a time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I bought some cream!
posted on 24/10/19
comment by NJS (U8272)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by VOF - are we there yet? (U17124)
posted 11 hours, 18 minutes ago
I think it’s a really good thread Jonty.
My take on things, for what it’s worth, is that we’ve a bright intelligent striker who’s perhaps overthinking things (because he’s bright), & he’s carrying the role of sole striker too much. The more he misses, the more he thinks, so on and so on. We’ve got Eddie in the wings & perhaps it’s time to try him. A Saiz like player who draws defenders would help too I’m sure.
We create, we play well mostly - though corners need a rethink as we’re useless for the most part, but all in all, if we tucked a few more of the chances away I think real confidence would flow. We seem a bit like arsenal of a few years ago, we seem to want to pass it into the net instead of kicking the lining out of the ball from time to time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting theory...so now you're suggesting he's too
intelligent to score...I had the same problem once
upon a time, turned out to be erectile dysfunction...
I wonder if Bamford is suffering the same problem,
judging by his body language?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he means he’s over thinking? Maybe his intelligence puts him on a different wavelength?
However that’s for the coach and players to address. No way should we be 13 games in and the players not knowing where each and everyone of them is going to make a run - especially Bamford.
This might sound mad or stupid or both but against the weaker opposition, especially at home, do we really need Phillips sat in front of the back four as an extra defender? I’m not saying replace him But why not let him be a little more further forward. He proved last weekend that he can score when the opportunity presents itself. Something other midfielders have failed to do so far this season. Even Pablo is struggling to get in the score sheet regularly.
posted on 24/10/19
Basically we cannot afford to rely on just the forwards to get the goals needed. Midfield/defence have to chip in at least 25 goals and at this stage that looks a tall order.
posted on 24/10/19
Even Pablo is struggling to get in the score sheet regularly.
------
Maybe he'd struggle less if he was in the team
posted on 24/10/19
Pablo's good. But even he needs to be on the pitch to score.
With your list of problems I think had we fixed the first, most of the rest would sort themselves out.
Bamford takes chances in the game earlier....
Creates more space for midfielders to score.
Can bring Eddie on to a game with space in behind.
Negates the need for us to pile so many man forward leaving us open at the back.
Just leaves Costa & Corners, which are not nearly as much of a concern because of the above.
posted on 24/10/19
It could only happen at Leeds....
A manager who can't speak English, a neurotic
Spanish goalkeeper and a striker who is too
intelligent to score goals...not to mention players
with pony tails...
When the transfer window opens let's try our luck
with a striker who is as thick as a plank, what have
we got to lose?!
posted on 24/10/19
This is a really interesting discussion, providing plenty of food for thought. The one saving grace for us is that every team is dropping points at the moment. Forest losing at home to Hull, West Brom drawing at home to Barnsley, are just the latest surprises. Not one team is stamping its authority in the league.
Our football is in a different class, and opposition managers are in agreement about this. That doesn't mean we are unbeatable though. So we are left with the feeling that once we crack this scoring conundrum, our prayers will be answered and we will be promoted.
The focus has been on Bamford and Nketiah, but if Klich, Costa, Harrison and Dallas had been chipping in, would we be making such a big deal of Bamford's slump in form?
Once we start to look beyond the obvious, we begin to see imbalances of responsibility and capacity in the team. These imbalances are hard to pin down, because they shift in and out of focus, according to who is playing, and what form they are in, but we are beginning to see patterns repeating themselves, and these have been picked up by opposing teams. Each team has their issues in this division, which is why Barnsley and Reading and Huddersfield can get results at any time against supposedly better placed teams.
We are one of the better teams in this league because of Bielsa's vision, but we are hindered because he cannot vary his style to match the opponents we are playing.
We have also been hit by injuries to key players and, as usual, we did not plan for this in building our squad in the pre-season. It would be nice to think there will be funds available in January to buy a proven striker, but it would have been a lot nicer to have done that piece of business in August.
So what can we do as supporters? For one, we have to take the pressure off Bamford. He is committed to the cause and he needs our support, not our condemnation.
Secondly, we have to acknowledge that Bielsa places huge expectations on players in terms of positional awareness, exertion, exercise and regimen - it can't be fun to train with LUFC. We have asked the question if this is causing our players to break down on the pitch, especially last season with the number of injuries we had. I am beginning to wonder whether playing for LUFC is an enjoyable experience for our players.
Finally, and a number of posters have said this, we need to be patient. This is a marathon, not a sprint. The margins between success and failure are miniscule in this league and every team experiences both. The winners are the ones with resilience and ferocity of spirit. We are so close to making it happen and as one poster put it earlier, we have not been out of the top six under Bielsa. As ever, keep the faith and enjoy the ride.
posted on 24/10/19
Secondly, we have to acknowledge that Bielsa places huge expectations on players in terms of positional awareness, exertion, exercise and regimen - it can't be fun to train with LUFC. We have asked the question if this is causing our players to break down on the pitch, especially last season with the number of injuries we had. I am beginning to wonder whether playing for LUFC is an enjoyable experience for our players.
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Really interesting point. I understand players were message in pre-season asking if they wanted to return or leave and a number of them chose the latter.....I'm not sure its that easy behind the scenes.
This also might sound crazy, but I don't think I've seen a single video of Bielsa training patterns whilst having opponents on the field. All the videos at Leeds I have seen is with player mannequins, remember Bamford training comeback goal etc.
I can't believe that all training is like this, but if there is a bias to training like this it could explain a lot, it simply does not take into account any possible movement from opponents.
posted on 24/10/19
Players deserve a lot of praise for how hard they work. Kinnear's interview with Talking Shutt recently, he mentioned how surprised they were that the players last season really bought into working hard and a big increase in training hours. Bielsa has big expectations but I think this squad are prepared to run through brick walls for him and really take on board what he says, which explains his loyalty to the starting 11. If you don't do that like Saiz or Pontus, you're out.
posted on 24/10/19
I think Stoopo's idea about Phillips is an interesting one.His core role is doing what he does sat in front of that defence or dropping into defence.However Bielsa's teams and tactics are all about versatility and people dropping in to cover.
It might be if we are getting no joy in a game to mix it up, let someone else drop in e.g Forshaw once fit and Phillips can join the attacks and he does have goals in his game.
A different calibre of player but I remember Yaya Toure in his pomp for City playing c65-70 minutes in the deeper role and then he would get further up the pitch and play a more attacking role.
It's an option and not saying he moves out of his main position but identifying times in a game when it is worth changing it up and giving opposition something else to think about.