Winners & Losers @ Jose's Spurs

comment by Tottenham Chronic (U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
look i think most spurs fans are going to have to accept that if we are to win things, then we will need to play a more pragmatic, less expansive style of football (because we are not good enough at it to beat the teams at the top of the league who play that way)

that said we need to be going out with the intention to win every game, one way or the next. playing for a draw doesn't wash with me.

spurs fans as a collective also need to shake off this loser mentality about would rather play good football than win.... we were playing good attacking football in the 90s when overall we were terrible, and it got us nowhere... football has moved on...

winning comes first
winning with style is the ultimate goal.

losing in style doesn't feature on the map.


all the above said, the football under Poch towards the end was some of the most dull, flat, uninspiring shyyytteee i have ever watched from a spurs team, and i can just about remember the Neale fenn's and rory allens of this world.
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Me too. Was only a boy but remember one AMAZING game with those 2 up front against Carlisle Utd in the 2nd round of the league cup. 3-2 we won. Absolute belter.

Toxic atmosphere though...lots of Francis out chants.

How far we've come. Gerry facking Francis

I can just about understand why some are happy with Jose, the bloke was an excellent manager. But people are talking about him like he is Klopp/Pep. The bloke did a truly awful job at united. A couple of second rate trophies does not make him a winner. Finishing out of the top of with united after the amount of money he spent is so poor.

I hope he can do well. But his style of play and managing has been usurped by the new wave of managers. If he doesn't adapt he will fail again (maybe with a glorious league Cup win against Southampton)

comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. LEVY OUT. (U7905)
posted 2 minutes ago
I can just about understand why some are happy with Jose, the bloke was an excellent manager. But people are talking about him like he is Klopp/Pep. The bloke did a truly awful job at united. A couple of second rate trophies does not make him a winner. Finishing out of the top of with united after the amount of money he spent is so poor.

I hope he can do well. But his style of play and managing has been usurped by the new wave of managers. If he doesn't adapt he will fail again (maybe with a glorious league Cup win against Southampton)
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Exactly this. He’s yesterday’s man.

Gerry francis i started supporting spurs in 1995 right in that francis era.... what a load of dross we were watching.

not digging out Francis here.. we were a mediocre club, so had a mediocre manager just like we deserved.


Poch is a quality manager and he turned us into a consistently quality club (apart from in 2019)... we are now set up for someone to basically reap the fruits of poch labour (as he seemed unable to reap them himself) and bring home silverware that the media has told us for 5 years is required to keep Kane Son etc etc

comment by Ace (U18814)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Gareth (U1145)
posted 25 seconds ago
Optimism is fine and expected of fans, but those declaring him a "serial winner" are mental.
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He’s won trophies at every club he’s been at, but with all except Porto he has had a lot of money to spend on the best players available. ‘Serial winner’ is a lazy cliche, justvas ‘trophy dodger’ was for Poch - people need to look at the context of every situation.

What trophies, realistically, do we expect the ‘serial winner’ to win for us. We aren’t winning the league, and we aren’t winning the CL. Realistically we are talking the domestic cups. These would be very nice, but unless we are competing in the league and playing in the CL we will go backwards as a club.

If you look at who wins trophies regularly - including the domestic cups, it is the clubs that invest the most money and pay the best wages. Yes, you get a Wigan and a Pompey from time to time, but those are rare occurrences. Generally speaking domestic leagues and cups are hoovered up by those that invest the most. Which doesn’t include us. There has to be a big change of ethos at board and economic level before we as a club become ‘serial winners’.

If Jose wins us the FA Cup this season that would be amazing. But if we also finish 7th, then the following season finish outside the top 4, where has it got us? At which point fans will be clamouring for someone who can get us back in the CL, I can guarantee you that.

I’m very disappointed at the way Poch’s tenure was ended, and I guess nervously excited about the Jose era. But let’s not delude ourselves that this is the serial winner of the 00’s. He’s at Spurs because that’s where his stock currently is. His Man U team were appalling - bloated, unfit, turgid style, worst runnings stats in the league, low morale, no youth being blooded. When we trashed them 0-3 at OT last season none of us would’ve swapped coaches with them for all the tea in China and don’t pretend otherwise.

Our only hope is he has reinvigorated himself and with the addition of his new coaching, fitness and scouting team we get the old Jose with the Midas touch. But it’s a huge gamble by Levy, and if Jose fails to get us regular CL and fails to do any better than runners up in the league and runners up in the CL (all of which Poch achieved on peanuts) then Levy absolutely has to fall on his sword. He has to live and die by this decision.

——————-

Finally some sense. Good to have you back Ace

comment by Phendombele (U20037)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
Lo Celso will be fine


Ndombele is the facked one. He looks so lazy so far.
Hopefully he changes.
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Yup. That article is based on stereotypes and misconceptions. For example, Lo Celso is an Argie #10 so he must be a lazy soft fancy Dan. Which he isn't, he's a terrier.

And Ndombele is a big box-to-boxer from the French league so he must be a solid work horse. Which he isn't, he's a lazy technical player.

i don't think NDombele is lazy at all. i think he is struggling to adapt to the pace and intensity of the prem, and also has a languid running style where he looks like he is always jogging and about to fall over, which doesn't help

comment by dangerdog2 (U22234)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U18814)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Gareth (U1145)
posted 25 seconds ago
Optimism is fine and expected of fans, but those declaring him a "serial winner" are mental.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

He’s won trophies at every club he’s been at, but with all except Porto he has had a lot of money to spend on the best players available. ‘Serial winner’ is a lazy cliche, justvas ‘trophy dodger’ was for Poch - people need to look at the context of every situation.

What trophies, realistically, do we expect the ‘serial winner’ to win for us. We aren’t winning the league, and we aren’t winning the CL. Realistically we are talking the domestic cups. These would be very nice, but unless we are competing in the league and playing in the CL we will go backwards as a club.

If you look at who wins trophies regularly - including the domestic cups, it is the clubs that invest the most money and pay the best wages. Yes, you get a Wigan and a Pompey from time to time, but those are rare occurrences. Generally speaking domestic leagues and cups are hoovered up by those that invest the most. Which doesn’t include us. There has to be a big change of ethos at board and economic level before we as a club become ‘serial winners’.

If Jose wins us the FA Cup this season that would be amazing. But if we also finish 7th, then the following season finish outside the top 4, where has it got us? At which point fans will be clamouring for someone who can get us back in the CL, I can guarantee you that.

I’m very disappointed at the way Poch’s tenure was ended, and I guess nervously excited about the Jose era. But let’s not delude ourselves that this is the serial winner of the 00’s. He’s at Spurs because that’s where his stock currently is. His Man U team were appalling - bloated, unfit, turgid style, worst runnings stats in the league, low morale, no youth being blooded. When we trashed them 0-3 at OT last season none of us would’ve swapped coaches with them for all the tea in China and don’t pretend otherwise.

Our only hope is he has reinvigorated himself and with the addition of his new coaching, fitness and scouting team we get the old Jose with the Midas touch. But it’s a huge gamble by Levy, and if Jose fails to get us regular CL and fails to do any better than runners up in the league and runners up in the CL (all of which Poch achieved on peanuts) then Levy absolutely has to fall on his sword. He has to live and die by this decision.
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This
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Yup. Excellent post.

comment by Tottenham Chronic (U3423)
posted 32 seconds ago
i don't think NDombele is lazy at all. i think he is struggling to adapt to the pace and intensity of the prem, and also has a languid running style where he looks like he is always jogging and about to fall over, which doesn't help
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I'll admit "lazy" is a, well, lazy term for me to use. What I mean is that he's got no stamina (yet) and he's not a big harrier or tackler, not a natural ball winner at all. I don't mean he doesn't care or put in effort.

comment by dangerdog2 (U22234)
posted 1 day ago
comment by Ace (U18814)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Gareth (U1145)
posted 25 seconds ago
Optimism is fine and expected of fans, but those declaring him a "serial winner" are mental.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

He’s won trophies at every club he’s been at, but with all except Porto he has had a lot of money to spend on the best players available. ‘Serial winner’ is a lazy cliche, justvas ‘trophy dodger’ was for Poch - people need to look at the context of every situation.

What trophies, realistically, do we expect the ‘serial winner’ to win for us. We aren’t winning the league, and we aren’t winning the CL. Realistically we are talking the domestic cups. These would be very nice, but unless we are competing in the league and playing in the CL we will go backwards as a club.

If you look at who wins trophies regularly - including the domestic cups, it is the clubs that invest the most money and pay the best wages. Yes, you get a Wigan and a Pompey from time to time, but those are rare occurrences. Generally speaking domestic leagues and cups are hoovered up by those that invest the most. Which doesn’t include us. There has to be a big change of ethos at board and economic level before we as a club become ‘serial winners’.

If Jose wins us the FA Cup this season that would be amazing. But if we also finish 7th, then the following season finish outside the top 4, where has it got us? At which point fans will be clamouring for someone who can get us back in the CL, I can guarantee you that.

I’m very disappointed at the way Poch’s tenure was ended, and I guess nervously excited about the Jose era. But let’s not delude ourselves that this is the serial winner of the 00’s. He’s at Spurs because that’s where his stock currently is. His Man U team were appalling - bloated, unfit, turgid style, worst runnings stats in the league, low morale, no youth being blooded. When we trashed them 0-3 at OT last season none of us would’ve swapped coaches with them for all the tea in China and don’t pretend otherwise.

Our only hope is he has reinvigorated himself and with the addition of his new coaching, fitness and scouting team we get the old Jose with the Midas touch. But it’s a huge gamble by Levy, and if Jose fails to get us regular CL and fails to do any better than runners up in the league and runners up in the CL (all of which Poch achieved on peanuts) then Levy absolutely has to fall on his sword. He has to live and die by this decision.
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This
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Great comment however how long has Levy/Enic been in place? 18 years roughly, they are not going anywhere unless they decide, countless managers have come and gone with ONE trophy to show in all that time so unless a whole new philosophy is being put in place this will be difficult for spurs.

Like you say what do we do sacrifice the top four for a cup and then find it difficult to get back into the top four, unless investment is given then they will struggle, all the soundbites from Jose will not cover the facts that the team need new players in certain areas