Guendouzi...

If Ozil's output and ability was anywhere near Bergkamp's what you are saying might make a little bit of sense, fact is it isn't and Bergkamp worked hard for the team anyway.

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
Wb2. Simple question. In our greatest team, and one of the best teams in league history, was it Bergkamp's job to protect Vieira or was it Vieira's job to protect Bergkamp?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Protection job is the DM's. You are confusing who is to protect who with whose defensive job is where. Like many who argue this point with me you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the defensive element of the CAM role. You like to pretend Ozil has no defensive duty. Nothing to with it's his job to "protect" his CM and DM. That isn't what I am saying and never has been.

My point is that his job is to be at/near the top of the press. He should be one of the first players to the ball or the opposition man with it, in the attacking third. When he wants to be a lazy git and not defend/press with any real conviction. It means someone else has to, this invariably leads to Xhaka's lack of pace being exposed because he's either covering whomever had to move to do Ozil's job or charging out of position (usually commuting a foul) to do it himself.

Nothing to do with protection being his responsibility in the sense you appear to mean Jenius. All about the fact that others get over extended defensively when Ozil refuses his kick in his piece of the defensive pie. It's a subtle thing with major impact. Watch the next Ozil performance with defensive hustle (assuming we get one). This time pay attention to how much more time, everybody (not just Xhaka) gets to set and defend, as well as how much more effective we get at winning the ball back in the opposition 3rd. When Ozil is doing his lazy, we can't get/maintain defensive shape. Because his laziness will always distort it.

Wb2.

Ozil's job is limited. He is not going to win the ball back nor do we need him to because if he was positioned to do that, he wouldn't be in position to play a key pass or the final ball. Think abt that for a second how is Ozil going to link play to the strikers if he is pressing? Ozil is though meant to offer a passing option to keep an attack going or in fact play a final ball in the final third. And he is also positioned to block an angle forcing some one trying to build from the back to slow their moves or to take an extra touch.

So I am not sure why you blame him when we are floundering for possession like we were against Leeds in the first half.

Vieira's job was to press in the space between Bergkamp and Gilberto. Thats a crucial spot. Because if Vieira was able to win possession in that space, either with a tackle or interception, he had a pass to Bergkamp positioned ready for a key pass or assist. Thats what we lack. Someone to win the ball, in fact dominate that space (the middle of the pitch) before it gets to our final third. The defensive third in those days belonged to Gilberto, Sol and Kolo. I assume under Arteta that will be Torreira and the 2 CBs.

Now do you understand why I made the point above?

It's not about him winning the ball back, it's about a team press. Please go watch Barcelona, Messi presses along with the rest of the team he's not just waiting for the ball to be passed to him whilst the rest of the team does the dirty work.

It's a team game and just because an attacking midfielder is pressing, doesn't mean he can't then find space to receive the ball once we win it back - that is nonsense.

comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not about him winning the ball back, it's about a team press. Please go watch Barcelona, Messi presses along with the rest of the team he's not just waiting for the ball to be passed to him whilst the rest of the team does the dirty work.

It's a team game and just because an attacking midfielder is pressing, doesn't mean he can't then find space to receive the ball once we win it back - that is nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Barcelona team press can't be implemented at Arsenal until we get rid of half the starters. That especially means players who are as slow as feck. And its questionable if it can work over 90 mins for a full season anyway. Pep doesn't do that at City nor does Klopp these days. It knackers athletes out because the prem is just too intense.

Arteta will have a few windows to buy the players he wants who can at least play like Man City.

So whats the point in continuously ragging on a player whose main job is to create. Now if Ozil was playing deeper and his task was to dominate a midfield like Vieira or Gilberto, I'd be hammering him far worse than I do Xhaka!

Arteta seems intent on us pressing regardless of the players he has at his disposal currently. When Ozil did join in the press we did just fine against Man Utd - the question is whether he has the attitude to keep doing it.

I just don't think a team press can work when a midfielder, albeit an attacking one, does not partake.

Ozil was doing pretty much the same thing against Leeds that he did against Utd.

The difference was that we were in a deeper set up. I made the point after the game that Arteta didn't only give the dressing room the hair dryer treatment. He also changed us tactically at HT.

Because we were deeper in the first half we were exposed in two ways. First Leeds were able to comfortably start moves. Ozil was trying to cover the same angles he tried to do against Utd but when the CM is 10 yards deeper behind him it was easy for Leeds to play the ball out on either side of him. And second, Leeds isolated Xhaka because of his lack of pace and he didn't have Torreira and AMN helping to cover the gaps. Xhaka can't tackle for toffee because he is just too slow in the challenge. It is easy for premier league players (and even Championship players) to see him coming and shift the ball enough to draw the foul. Thats why Xhaka has been sent off so many times.

In the second half we pushed up as a team to the half way line. That helped Gwen to cover for Xhaka better (in fact Gwen had the best defensive stats of anyone in that game). The risk was to leave a lot of space behind our CBs for Leeds to counter. Thankfully Leeds didn't have enough skill in attack to take advantage in the second half.

Think abt that for a second how is Ozil going to link play to the strikers if he is pressing?

------------
You nuttah, linking play to the strikers is his role/job when WE have the ball! If we don't have possession, there's no play for him to link

To answer your question though,. THE EXACT SAME WAY Rosicky, Fabregas, Wilshere and Ramsey (when played there) did. It ain't rocket science mate, he's gotta win the ball, lay it off and feckin MOVE again hasn't he. Jeez man, HOW many Arsenal goals have we seen scored with short passing and movement in the final 3rd. You're talking as though you've never seen it done before. Let alone seen your own team be one of the best in the business (hands down best in prem at one point) at doing it.

Seriously, where on earth did you get the idea/impression that a CAM is just meant to stand in/run into space and wait for others to win the ball and give it to him so he can play a killer pass and get an assist. Especially when talking about the opposition 3rd/half? You're right we needed to raise the line though. Just don't seem to get that you can't raise the line without Ozil doing exactly what I'm on about. Without it breaking players get time to pick a pass over the top. Isn't that Ozil pressed better because line was raised. It's Arteta put a rocket up his ass at H/T MADE HIM press and thus the line COULD be raised. Which then made us more effective at winning the ball up the pitch.

If we don't have the ball, it is EVERY PLAYER'S JOB to get it back. Not just the CM/DM and defenders. The attackers on the pitch also. Nearest man to the ball goes and the nearest to him, support. So essentially whose individual job to start is dictated by where the ball is and NOT by who is or is not a defensive player by default. You DON'T ignore a breaking player right by you, to run into space on the off chance the man behind you will be able to win the ball from the now charging player you let through.

comment by You Can't Buy Class (U12019)
posted 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
Arteta seems intent on us pressing regardless of the players he has at his disposal currently. When Ozil did join in the press we did just fine against Man Utd - the question is whether he has the attitude to keep doing it.

I just don't think a team press can work when a midfielder, albeit an attacking one, does not partake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope it doesn't, because to press in the middle (if your CAM won't do it), either a winger has to move too far inside, leaving opposition FBs free to bomb up the pitch. Or CM/DM have to advance a bit too high for comfort and you get busted wide open if they don't win the tackle or lose the ball quickly after they do win it. Exactly what happened again and again in the first half vs Leeds. Xhaka either had to commit foul or get beat like a dog by pace or pass (tbf fair he looked like he was having a blast ) You can offset the problem with an exceptional and highly mobile pairing behind CAM. Ya still overstretching others to compensate for one lazy player.

Always been a firm believer that's the wrong thing to do. In that situation, you ditch the lazy player, you don't overtax others to carry him. For a couple months due to short term loss of form or injury recovery, then yeah only right to do just that. But not for year after year simply because the player in question has one stinking attitude and believes he is too precious to follow instructions like every other sod on the team.

comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 7 hours, 56 minutes ago
Seriously, where on earth did you get the idea/impression that a CAM is just meant to stand in/run into space and wait for others to win the ball and give it to him so he can play a killer pass and get an assist.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I guess he's thinking of a Trequartista.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1399609-trequartistas-and-the-5-most-specialist-positions-in-football