Off topic, but this is an interesting one that’s popped up over the past few days and I’d like to hear peoples thoughts - I think most of the political debates on here recently have been done so respectfully. I’m also sure there will be many on here with more of an understanding of the history so input is welcome.
So Churchill, at the time he was what we needed to help guide Britain in the fight against Hitlers Germany. We should be thankful of that undoubtedly. But I think sadly the way the history here is taught has given him a bit of an untouchable and iconic status for many across the country. I don’t think statues of him should be removed, it is difficult to hold historical figures to modern standards, Churchill was one of the final devotees to an Empire which no longer exists. But as Brits we should be aware of the mans darker endeavours, understanding is needed, not blind idle worship.
1920 sending the Black and Tans into Ireland
1943 engineered famine in Bengal causing 4 million people to starve to death
1944 28 anti facists shot dead in Greece by the British Army under his guidance
1950s, during this decade he returned as PM for the first half, at which time the Mau Mau uprising happened in Kenya. This is a particular area I need to read up on, estimated that 1.5m detained in British run camps. 1000s died, including camps where almost all the children passed away due to beating, malnutrition or disease. This is not something we should ignore because it happened 600 years ago, it was 70 years ago, and I bet the majority of people have never heard of it. Why?
1953 helped organise a coup with the CIA to overthrow Iran’s democratically elected government
I know there are many other examples I’d like to learn more about - Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Churchill was part of British governments whose fingerprints have been all over the Middle East for over a century.
I’ve seen the same excuse trotted out countless times “Churchill was fighting racism" - I’ve decided I need to do a lot more reading on him, and the history of the Empire, my knowledge is lacking, but it strikes me he generally acted in the interests of an Imperial Britain throughout his career, rather than taking a deep ideological difference with Hitler. So for Churchill, I am thankful and respectful we had a figure to provide inspiration in a time of need that Brits of my generation cannot imagine, but he is not a hero to me.
Winston Churchill
posted on 10/6/20
Don’t forget this part though: https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1270769640004861954?s=20
posted on 10/6/20
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 35 minutes ago
Don’t forget this part though: https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1270769640004861954?s=20
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Which is exactly what was being said. The British Empire and colonialism in general wasn't entirely good, nor was it entirely bad. This is true for the vast majority of historical institutions (as well as modern, but that's a different topic) and people. You can't just categroize everything and everyone that has ever lived as bad or good. In reality most history is very grey.
posted on 11/6/20
What a load of crap this article is, Ja606 used to be decent, now it full of whining lefty gimps who get their rocks off running down the country.
posted on 11/6/20
posted on 11/6/20
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 8 hours, 20 minutes ago
What a load of crap this article is, Ja606 used to be decent, now it full of whining lefty gimps who get their rocks off running down the country.
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Apologies. Winston was stunning and brave.
posted on 11/6/20
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 12 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 8 hours, 20 minutes ago
What a load of crap this article is, Ja606 used to be decent, now it full of whining lefty gimps who get their rocks off running down the country.
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Apologies. Winston was stunning and brave.
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I thought he was an argumentative filthy rag baastard personally
Might be a different Winston
posted on 11/6/20
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 20 hours, 46 minutes ago
What a load of crap this article is, Ja606 used to be decent, now it full of whining lefty gimps who get their rocks off running down the country.
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can you even read. you would fit in well with those american love it or leave it losers.
posted on 11/6/20
comment by Paulpowersleftfoot still champions 768 days & counting (U1037)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 12 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 8 hours, 20 minutes ago
What a load of crap this article is, Ja606 used to be decent, now it full of whining lefty gimps who get their rocks off running down the country.
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Apologies. Winston was stunning and brave.
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I thought he was an argumentative filthy rag baastard personally
Might be a different Winston
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posted on 12/6/20
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 1 day, 10 hours ago
What a load of crap this article is, Ja606 used to be decent, now it full of whining lefty gimps who get their rocks off running down the country.
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Tories have an 80 seat majority and the left is still setting the agenda.
Sweet.
#BLM ✊🏿
posted on 13/6/20
My old fella spent six years fighting for King and Country, he hated Churchill, always said he was a war monger. Not sure why people cannot have an opinion that does not fawn over Churchill, same as the Royal family. Why does anybody that doesn`t like them, get told you are a traitor, go live somewhere elsewhere, leave the country. I mean it is so childish.
Unfortunately in this country British History is not taught properly, you are only told the good bits.
I mean seriously Churchill did not win the war, his army did assisted by the Americans, Canadians, French, Red Army and all the other Commonwealth troops to win it.
This statue thing also seems to be a massive distraction at the moment. I mean who seriously cares less about monuments, they are bits of stone or whatever they are made out of. There are far more pressing problems going on than whether a bit of Graffiti is on some monements. Like 40,000 plus dead from Corona, and the Economy about to tank.