Has Jose Lost The Dressing Room Already?

comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 4 minutes ago
Let's be real. No one expects a Jose team to turn out like prime Barcelona. We know this. He's been hired to try and turn this lot of serial bottlers into winners. Only time will tell if he can do it.
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Well I hope he bucks his ideas up and soon, he looks completely disinterested, I suspect he’s just here for the pay.

comment by *Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I�... (U6374)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
Why is Jose's performance measured against Poch?

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Because context is important. Jose hasn't even had a full season. This is very much Poch's squad, and the mentality he left behind.

Also, there is a large continent of fans that quite clearly didn't want Poch sacked and are using everything that is bad with the team to illustrate that Mourinho is bad, we should've kept Poch, ENIC out etc.

Yeah it's right we've not looked particularly fit. That said, Kane and Son hadn't played football in - must've been 6 months or so - before the restart.

Jose hasn't done a fantastic job. It's true. We're still rubbish. But that's the point. We were rubbish before, the atmosphere in the club was terrible and we weren't winning anything. So yeah. Until the new manager has had at least a season and a transfer window or two I think it's crazy we're seeing threads like this from our own fans. Toxic, in fact.
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Fair points tbf Bales but...

I look at say Klopp for context and even though we got turned over in the league pretty regularly you could see what he was trying to achieve.

I like Hasenhuttl a lot and again you could see his style and what he was trying to do within weeks.

Other extreme is Pep at City had a pretty average first season (3rd) using other people players but you could see what he was trying to do.

I watch Forest regularly and it's the same with Lamouchi. Bielsa at Leeds too. In fact even Poch.

I suspect what frustrates fans is this lack of knowing how it's going to change because as it stands it looks as though unless he can sign about six very good footballers in their prime not much will improve and he's not going to get six very good footballers in his prime (and was never going to).
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It's a valid point, but to be fair any manager would struggle not being able to recruit players. Funnily enough you mentioned Poch this time - he didn't immediately change the style when he got to Spurs. Not until he'd shaped the squad so we were able to play a high line and press.

Anyways. Yeah we all know Jose's not a young progressive manager who has a style everyone gushes about. But that's not why we hired him. Yes fans want to see good football, but players care about trophies. Kane won't stick around to nearly win stuff for his entire career.

Again fair

Poch did notably improve a number of players already at the club when he joined: Walker, Rose, Dembele... Verts & Eriksen to a lesser extent. Then there was an emergence of Kane who had already been in the team prior to Poch joining.

He was unable to replace those players key to the system and here we are now.

comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 3 minutes ago
Poch did notably improve a number of players already at the club when he joined: Walker, Rose, Dembele... Verts & Eriksen to a lesser extent. Then there was an emergence of Kane who had already been in the team prior to Poch joining.

He was unable to replace those players key to the system and here we are now.

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That's true Phenom, Poch was clearly a very good coach for us. But that takes time - we didn't see the immediate improvement that fans are demanding from Mourinho. But to his credit Dier looks a decent centre back already.

Also you have to look at why we lost Walker and Eriksen - because we didn't win anything. Toby was on his way too.

We are all well aware of the issues with recruitment at the club, but we went big in the summer and we were still rubbish. 150m or so wasn't it?

comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Phenom(U20037)
posted 3 minutes ago
Poch did notably improve a number of players already at the club when he joined: Walker, Rose, Dembele... Verts & Eriksen to a lesser extent. Then there was an emergence of Kane who had already been in the team prior to Poch joining.

He was unable to replace those players key to the system and here we are now.

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That's true Phenom, Poch was clearly a very good coach for us. But that takes time - we didn't see the immediate improvement that fans are demanding from Mourinho. But to his credit Dier looks a decent centre back already.

Also you have to look at why we lost Walker and Eriksen - because we didn't win anything. Toby was on his way too.

We are all well aware of the issues with recruitment at the club, but we went big in the summer and we were still rubbish. 150m or so wasn't it?
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problem is mate like we say it was a transitional period and lost key players, brought in new ones in the summer for big money, but as you've said about Jose needing time, Poch needed time with the new players imo. But he is gone now wrongly or rightly. It is just how Jose has shown in recent years he isnt the best man manager and coach of talented players. It was a mismatch.

All for seeing how we go into next season but recruitment is needed and a more progressive style. I wasnt all out Jose negative at the start, but for me there is more onus on him to win us something sooner with his pedigree and the manner in which he was brought in.

Yeah that's fair. We need to win something sooner rather than later

Though on the pitch performances were only part of the reason Poch was sacked. His head clearly wasn't right.

For what it's worth we haven't really seen Jose take on a challenge like he has with us in a long time. United, Real Madrid, his second spell at Chelsea.. they all had squads full of players used to winning things. Hopefully our lot will be a bit more receptive to an experienced coach with his track record. I suspect Levy's plan is to try it for a season or two, if we win something great. If not we can go after another coach in the mould of Poch, or even get him back.

yep there was something not right. especially the stuff he was saying around the CL final.

agree with that paragraph Bales

Levy must have looked at himself and his lack of trophies while being at the club so got a guy in who has won them everywhere he has been.
We will see how next season goes. This season really is truly over isnt it. Interesting to see if we get EL how we will approach that but with our squad you wonder how we will cope with the schedule.
Also Europe or not i cant see much spending in the window.

Yeah this season is a bust. I know it's cringe to say it, but it was terrible timing to have a pandemic on the business side - with the NFL money going out of the window the whole model we had in place is shot to bits.

That said, most clubs will be in a similar boat with regards to spending. It's not like we're going to fall behind. If we can get a decent holding midfielder and a right back things won't look so bad.