Is Bianca Williams now above the law ?

comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 2 minutes ago
Those stats don’t really enforce your point properly though, do they? They’re incomplete.
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Show us stats that counter my point then?
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This is where you’re going wrong. I’m not trying to counter your point, I’m just saying your stats are nowhere near complete enough to back up your claim of racism when it comes to sentencing.
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Says who?

JS asked me to back up my comment about black people receiving harsher sentences than white people. He then wanted crime specific stats. I provided research showing drug offence stats.

Now it’s only 3 offences and not enough. I provide more and it’ll be ‘yeah but research can be debunked so I don’t believe what you posted’. Followed by ‘yeah but it doesn’t count crime that took place on a full moon’ etc etc

Look it up yourselves if you want. You lot want further info go for it. If it debunks my claim do be it. If it doesn’t I’ll expect yourself and JS will say fair enough.
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You’ve provided the stats you claim back you up, I’m just saying they’re incomplete. I’ve not said they’re wrong. But do you know if those figures are repeat offenders or first time offenders, because that would make a huge difference to sentencing, wouldn’t it?

If you’re able to show this, then I’ll happily agree there’s a problem, otherwise at face value it’s just someone using stats to suit their agenda.

And just to preempt your reply, I’m not saying you’re wrong.
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We’ve gone from stats show black people receive harsher sentences than white people, to crime specific stats show black people receive harsher sentences than white people to well it depends on particular circumstances such as repeat offending.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479874/analysis-of-ethnicity-and-custodial-sentences.pdf

Page 2.

Now we’re making the argument that a specific subset of black peoples, repeat offenders in this case, drug offenders previously, receive harsher sentences not black people in general as I originally stated and proved.

Comment Deleted by Site Moderator

“ This analysis showed that amongst a large sample of offenders convicted in England and Wales in 2011, police-recorded ethnicity was independently associated with being sentenced to prison when offence group, criminal record, and other characteristics were held constant, although the effect was small. BAME offenders (particularly male BAME offenders) were more likely to be sentenced to prison than White offenders (particularly White female offenders), under similar criminal circumstances.
Offence group was a stronger predictor of imprisonment, with offenders convicted of violence against the person offences, sexual offences, burglary, and robbery the most likely to be imprisoned. Criminal history was also important: having previous convictions or cautions was associated with increased odds of imprisonment, with the likelihood increasing with each previous conviction or caution recorded. Nationality was also independently associated with imprisonment: non-UK nationals were more likely to be sentenced to prison than UK nationals.
This research could be repeated with more recent data, and with more factors added to the model (including more information on the seriousness of the offence committed). Additional factors which influence sentencing decisions, such as the plea (guilty or not guilty) and aggravating and mitigating circumstances, would enable a more accurate estimation of the ‘ethnicity effect’ on imprisonment.”

“ Being recorded by a police officer as coming from a Black, Asian, or Minority Ethnic (BAME) background was independently associated with approximately 39% higher odds of being sentenced to prison, than offenders who were recorded by police officers as coming from a White ethnic background. This effect was small, but statistically significant.”

Comment Deleted by Site Moderator

Right, thanks for providing the full stats, finally!

So repeat offending isn’t the major factor in the stats. What does stand out is the figures for non UK nationals. You’re far more likely to be sentenced to a prison term if you’re not a UK national, and there are three times more in the BAME group.

I’m curious if that’s a policy thing and if it’s similar in other countries. It certainly has a significant effect on the final figures.

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
If we take those stats, the order of likely imprisonment is:
BAME male
White male
BAME female
White female

I now identify as a woman. 👍😂
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Think it’s inevitable we treat ‘the fairersex’ less hardly than their male counterparts. More to do with not reconciling imprisoning this who bear our children.

Still doesn’t discount the disparity in sentencing between race.

Comment Deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
If we take those stats, the order of likely imprisonment is:
BAME male
White male
BAME female
White female

I now identify as a woman. 👍😂
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Think it’s inevitable we treat ‘the fairersex’ less hardly than their male counterparts. More to do with not reconciling imprisoning this who bear our children.

Still doesn’t discount the disparity in sentencing between race.
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Many years ago when I was studying law at A level, I think the stats showed that women get lower sentences, but if it the crime was particularly gruesome, they received harsher sentencing.

Lots of things come into play, like looks. A pretty boy would get a lighter sentence for violent crime, but a harsher sentence for fraud.

I'm not verifying it, defending it or will find data for it. Take it or leave it. 👍😂
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I think you could drag up hundreds of variables but that doesn’t change the discrepancy between race

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 3 days, 4 hours ago

This was definitely a tragedy that should not have happened. However, it was in August not February and wearing a ski mask and having flailing arms isn't normal behaviour. Not enough to warrant arrest, sure, but possibly worth investigating.

As for the dose of ketamine, I have no idea why that we administrated, but I'm not a medical professional. But surely that can't be on the police?
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I stand corrected as to the month; I misread his birthdate as being the time of his death. Nevertheless, someone who is walking down the street doing no harm to anyone at all and deemed by the caller himself as probably unarmed and being of no danger to anyone surely merits no more than a drive-by at best.

Even presuming that the police did have the man's best interest at heart and approached him out of concern for his wellbeing, it's hard to imagine why they would approach him from behind and presume he is dangerous just because he doesn't heed their calls, rather than think he might just have a pair of ear-buds in and can't hear them.

If they did presume him to be off his head, wouldn't you think it recommendable to avoid any course of action that might possibly freak him out, and perhaps approach him head-on and signal their intentions from a good distance before taking any other action? Doesn't it seem as if they might have been over-reliant on their ability to use force to overpower him rather than assessing the situation from the point of view of the safest possible approach for the wellbeing of a citizen they are charged with protecting? Surely it is not hard to concede that point.

It is just hard to imagine where a situation with an individual described in the glowing terms some of his clients and acquaintances used to define him can escalate so preposterously and require him being cuffed face down and kept in a chokehold for 15 minutes even when he is throwing up on himself, apologising and complaining of difficulty breathing. Note that the inconclusive autopsy does not rule out that injuries caused during this procedure did not play a part in his death either; you can't just presume it was the ketamine because it serves your hypothesis when an experienced coroner was unable to definitively establish the cause.

As an aside, doesn't the fact one of the officers is recorded telling another to take his body cam off raise any alarm bells or suggest malpractice to you?

I agree that the wrong dosage is definitely not the cops' fault, but the grounds upon which he was administered any dose at all was definitely because of their report of the situation. It seems unlikely that the poor bloke was in any condition to offer resistance by that time. Besides, as per the information I provided, the entire grounds themselves are not recognised by any medical or mental health association. Wouldn't you suggest that in the aftermath of this tragic event, that that itself needs reviewing?

Even if it was all just a hugely unfortunate chain of events, which seems only the remotest of possibilities in this case, wouldn't you, if this was your responsibility, want the most thorough independent investigation to be conducted to ensure to the greatest possible degree that nothing of the sort could ever happen again?