Just watched the game against Arsenal. On a growing scale, Naby is becoming increasingly central to that midfield. By the same token, I thought that Gini was at times auditioning for a leading role in the next “invisible man" film. He too was increasingly noticeable, but by his apparent absence.
Barca bound?
Our midfield has always been the one area where there’s been difference in opinion as to who should play there. Now, for me, Thiago - may he make a full recovery from Covid - Naby, and Henderson be the bolt-on certainty for these slots. Whither now for Gini, Alex, Xherdan et al now?
Joe had a good game, more assertive than in recent games. Trent was simply unbelievable. His never-ending attacks, the crossings, the strikes on goal put him in a different class.
The front three? Bobby, involved as ever, outstanding. Mo, a man on a mission. The “nightmare?" that’s what he is to all defenders, isn’t he? Sadio defies belief. He never stops, never gives up, his goal against Chelsea sums the man up. Where would we be without him?
Three games down, and our team are on a roll. The main so-called opposition ain’t.
We live in interesting times people.
PS. Disappointed, really disappointed to hear that that great Argentinean defender Otamendi is being shipped out from City. If ever there was ever a near-guaranteed three points for us when playing against them he was it.
I’m missing him already.
Thoughts ...
posted on 30/9/20
Personally I still think Naby has some way to go before he’s considered first choice. But he is making progress and looking a lot more comfortable in this team. Not sure whether that’s because he’s injury free or just finally settled but he looks like he’ll make a big contribution to the season. With everyone fit and in decent form then I’d expect our first picks to be Fabinho, Thiago and Henderson.
I’m going to disagree a bit on Bobby as well Jimmy. He looks really low on confidence to me. His link up play is still decent but his swagger is missing imo and I think the lack of goals is beginning to weigh heavy. If you think about the way he started last season, that was Firmino at his best, willing to try the improbable because everything he seemed to do worked out. Doesn’t feel that way to me right now.
posted on 30/9/20
Naby has had good periods of form for us before so has Ox where theyve looked key players and added something different. Can he stay fit for a season is the only question for me, i dont question his ability.
Wijnaldum has often needed to show more but hes usually reliable in that you’ll get a shift out of him. Think hes been lazy recently or switched off especially vs Leeds, mind you lot of them were not ready or willing to track their mf runners it seemed.
Bobby is inconsistent not only game to game but minute to minute hes always been capable of failing to complete a simple 5 yard pass 10 times in a row and despite that 11th attempt would be a no look backheel flick or sumin daft, very frustratingly sloppy at times not to mention awful finishing. But when bes on it working n hustling hes great, usually works hard though and is atleast trying to get involved and usually is and often pulls out a special pass or bit of skill/turn hold up play to create something for mane or salah even on his worst days. Definitely looks like hes needs a rest and some competition to give him a kick up the backside too, scoring record needs improving on.
Gomez looked assured wasnt tested much and kept aub quiet, looks so much more composed didnt make crazy decisions was excellent on the ball and has all the physical attributes needed to be very hard to beat if hes not selling himself short getting caught under the ball or w’e. Best performance from him in a while maybe that injury fabs performance woke him up a bit too, kinda what bobby needs.
posted on 30/9/20
it would be most accurate to say that wijnaldum is hugely underrated as is firmino. People just doesn't see enough of the dirty hard work that creates the press and creates the pressure that cracks teams.
what i found hugely interesting was that when kieta went off then wijnaludm moved over for milner and then sprang into life.
That suggests wijnaldum was doing a job klop wanted and so was keita.
I fail to get why people have to play players off against each other when in fact they fulfil the roles klopp wants.
After that i strongly suggest certain people above rewind all of our chances and see exactly where firmino is. see him linking play, see him winning the ball.
examples
who's there passing to salah after keita is taken out by luiz? yes minor but he is involved he does follow up and salah shoots and not passes so it falls to mane for tap in.
who wins it wide after a ball into channel then passes to salah who then lays it back to taa for the cross. who moves into the middle to draw players?
who wins it back for the chance that salah then robbs off jota?
who leads the press? who's central pushing in so when that bad pass comes someone else looks brilliant taking the ball off holding or taking a bad clearance?
each time he's moving into spaces where a striker cannot score, which is the job klopp wants.
I could understand people being critical if he was sloppy and not working but he is doing MASSIVE work for the team and creating the spaces the others work off. needs a rest???? a rest? he needs no such thing.
I will be honest, at some points the game got so repetitive its actually dull. arsneal play deep (so deep they are underground) then lose it. time and again. We knock it about as they try to work hard and defend and repeat. We wuld all love to be 4-0 up after 15mins and then party but its not that easy.
Wijnaldum worked very hard, keita did his business in the press and then is criticised for being taken off after 60mins but he's done the job. Wijnaldum then takes over the job.
Firmino worked hard for 90.
Mane was brilliant but people miss the others work. Salah only gets insults for being greedy but again his work was massive. He was involved in the goals as usual.
it WORKS because they do the job. none are perfect, nobody is but picking them apart purely on moments on the ball that didn't work is nonsensical
posted on 30/9/20
Well said mito
posted on 30/9/20
Agree with mito.
Firmino is important to our game. Without Firmino the wide players would struggle. Klopp doesn't care whether Firmino scores a lot or not. He is there to connect the play from midfield to attack.
A traditional striker would not do well in our system which is all based on the runs and movement of the wide players in the box. A striker would would not drop deep in midfield and we will lose something defensively in midfield.
Minamino could be his replacement in the upcoming years as he has similar attributes.
posted on 30/9/20
Keita seems to be the midfielder that is technical enough to get on the ball, go past somebody in midfield which in turn creates and opens up space for the front 3. He's a very good player to have against teams who look to stick 11 men behind the ball and make a compact midfield and defensive block. Many teams have been doing this for a good 18 months or so now, so I can see why Keita is becoming a more central figure because the previous midfield of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner would be able to keep the ball moving well, but don't have the quality Keita does to go past somebody in midfield.
Firmino does a lot of good work. My main criticism with Firmino is that his goal tally seems to be drying up a little bit. He used to hit double figures and now he seems to be struggling and for me personally, doesn't seem "as involved" when Liverpool have the ball anymore. But obviously off the ball his work is unquestionably fantastic.
Imo, Mane is the best player in the league at the moment.
posted on 30/9/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 24 minutes ago
Keita seems to be the midfielder that is technical enough to get on the ball, go past somebody in midfield which in turn creates and opens up space for the front 3. He's a very good player to have against teams who look to stick 11 men behind the ball and make a compact midfield and defensive block. Many teams have been doing this for a good 18 months or so now, so I can see why Keita is becoming a more central figure because the previous midfield of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner would be able to keep the ball moving well, but don't have the quality Keita does to go past somebody in midfield.
Firmino does a lot of good work. My main criticism with Firmino is that his goal tally seems to be drying up a little bit. He used to hit double figures and now he seems to be struggling and for me personally, doesn't seem "as involved" when Liverpool have the ball anymore. But obviously off the ball his work is unquestionably fantastic.
Imo, Mane is the best player in the league at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yet As i point out he has a hand in both our goals by being in the right place to start the moves off. Salah has a big hand in both as well.
In reality you cannot finish the top ins and run out wide to start the moves. he will get his goals when the chances come.
posted on 30/9/20
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
it would be most accurate to say that wijnaldum is hugely underrated as is firmino. People just doesn't see enough of the dirty hard work that creates the press and creates the pressure that cracks teams.
what i found hugely interesting was that when kieta went off then wijnaludm moved over for milner and then sprang into life.
That suggests wijnaldum was doing a job klop wanted and so was keita.
I fail to get why people have to play players off against each other when in fact they fulfil the roles klopp wants.
After that i strongly suggest certain people above rewind all of our chances and see exactly where firmino is. see him linking play, see him winning the ball.
examples
who's there passing to salah after keita is taken out by luiz? yes minor but he is involved he does follow up and salah shoots and not passes so it falls to mane for tap in.
who wins it wide after a ball into channel then passes to salah who then lays it back to taa for the cross. who moves into the middle to draw players?
who wins it back for the chance that salah then robbs off jota?
who leads the press? who's central pushing in so when that bad pass comes someone else looks brilliant taking the ball off holding or taking a bad clearance?
each time he's moving into spaces where a striker cannot score, which is the job klopp wants.
I could understand people being critical if he was sloppy and not working but he is doing MASSIVE work for the team and creating the spaces the others work off. needs a rest???? a rest? he needs no such thing.
I will be honest, at some points the game got so repetitive its actually dull. arsneal play deep (so deep they are underground) then lose it. time and again. We knock it about as they try to work hard and defend and repeat. We wuld all love to be 4-0 up after 15mins and then party but its not that easy.
Wijnaldum worked very hard, keita did his business in the press and then is criticised for being taken off after 60mins but he's done the job. Wijnaldum then takes over the job.
Firmino worked hard for 90.
Mane was brilliant but people miss the others work. Salah only gets insults for being greedy but again his work was massive. He was involved in the goals as usual.
it WORKS because they do the job. none are perfect, nobody is but picking them apart purely on moments on the ball that didn't work is nonsensical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume I'd be one of the "certain people above" so as a reply:
Firmino always works hard. Every single game. He's always involved in our attacks either through defending from the front or his link play. His movement and awareness are exceptional and his place in the team is not (and should not) be under any threat irrespective of his goal tally; that's simply because of what else he brings the team.
Firmino is one of my favourite players in the current team (probably just behind VVD). I know there are better players than him but I appreciate and enjoy what he brings to us. And it's not just the hard work and the link play (he sometimes gets damned with faint praise) but because his on-ball manipulation is at times dazzling. His footwork can be exceptional and when you combine that with his awareness and understanding with Mane and Salah, the results are there for all to see.
However, I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the above opinions and still believe his form and confidence are not high. Not compared to the peaks that we have seen. There could be a thousand reasons for that (not least the health situation in his home country) but the on-pitch swagger and smile doesn't seem there to me.
Long story short - just because I don't believe Bobby is at 100%, doesn't mean I don't appreciate the quality of performance he does bring.
posted on 30/9/20
As I said in my original post, I thought that Bobby was outstanding and I still believe that. He is at times deceptively cute, he makes difficult moves, passes, tackles look easy when in fact the opposite applies.
Each of our front three deserve massive praise. Both individually and collectively they are the best front three I’ve seen in all the years I’ve been a Red.
Long may they continue.
posted on 1/10/20
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 23 hours, 18 minutes ago
it would be most accurate to say that wijnaldum is hugely underrated as is firmino. People just doesn't see enough of the dirty hard work that creates the press and creates the pressure that cracks teams.
what i found hugely interesting was that when kieta went off then wijnaludm moved over for milner and then sprang into life.
That suggests wijnaldum was doing a job klop wanted and so was keita.
I fail to get why people have to play players off against each other when in fact they fulfil the roles klopp wants.
After that i strongly suggest certain people above rewind all of our chances and see exactly where firmino is. see him linking play, see him winning the ball.
examples
who's there passing to salah after keita is taken out by luiz? yes minor but he is involved he does follow up and salah shoots and not passes so it falls to mane for tap in.
who wins it wide after a ball into channel then passes to salah who then lays it back to taa for the cross. who moves into the middle to draw players?
who wins it back for the chance that salah then robbs off jota?
who leads the press? who's central pushing in so when that bad pass comes someone else looks brilliant taking the ball off holding or taking a bad clearance?
each time he's moving into spaces where a striker cannot score, which is the job klopp wants.
I could understand people being critical if he was sloppy and not working but he is doing MASSIVE work for the team and creating the spaces the others work off. needs a rest???? a rest? he needs no such thing.
I will be honest, at some points the game got so repetitive its actually dull. arsneal play deep (so deep they are underground) then lose it. time and again. We knock it about as they try to work hard and defend and repeat. We wuld all love to be 4-0 up after 15mins and then party but its not that easy.
Wijnaldum worked very hard, keita did his business in the press and then is criticised for being taken off after 60mins but he's done the job. Wijnaldum then takes over the job.
Firmino worked hard for 90.
Mane was brilliant but people miss the others work. Salah only gets insults for being greedy but again his work was massive. He was involved in the goals as usual.
it WORKS because they do the job. none are perfect, nobody is but picking them apart purely on moments on the ball that didn't work is nonsensical
--------------------
Well said. With all respect to all other reds ja606 posters, mito is always spot on. I always first look for his comments.