Should be looking to win the group

Juve and Barca are no great shakes these days.

Would fancy city v Barca this year.

I don't disagree, just somehow we seem to mess up every year, poor officiating, strange rules allowing inadvertent handball goals to count, too much respect for what should have been second tier opponents.

The seeding etc makes this an unlovely competition for me. City, United and Chelsea shouldn't be in it this year, they are not champions and it is laughably called the Champions League. I'd have more respect for it if they called it 'UEFA making money league'. Not an excuse for poor performances though.

Ake's definately bedded in and Torres looked a lot sharper last night.

You can't underestimate the effect of having Ferna as captain will have on the defence, we were sadly missing a leader last season.

I agree Boris, a defensive leader is key. I guess it means playing Rodri and Fern in front of the back 4 a lot, at least for the first 60 min, with KDB in front most of the time but Foden playing both on the wing and then coming inside when Fern goes off to rest his aging legs. A different formation than most of last season, 2 DM with 1 further forward rather than 1 with KDB and Merlin further forward. At least we have 4 CB's this season (assuming Stones still has some role to play) with Fern as additional CB cover. Given that Pep changes the team almost every game you can never tell what team he will put out but I don't think Mendy is anywhere near CL standard since his injuries and Stones seems to have lost all confidence.