Bit of a different one this so apologies if not of interest!
Over the last few years since Brexit I have got more and more into the idea of Wales becoming an independent country. Now, It's something I do want to happen for my country.
I know it won't be easy and that there will be economic factors to overcome but I do think it's possible.
What I'm wondering on here is what are the thoughts of the English posters.
Forgetting the economic aspect for a minute would you blame me, and some of my fellow Cymry, for wanting to leave the UK?
For the record I like England and most of its people. It's a great country in its own right and the longing for Welsh independence isn't to do with being anti-English. It's more to do with wanting to run our own affairs for our own benefit. In an independent Wales I'd still want very close ties with the rest of the UK (and the world) and there will always be a shared history. I just think it's time now for Wales to go it alone.
Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Would you think any less of me? (or is that not possible anyway!)
*I don't want to talk about Scotland as they Scottish can do that but I suppose the same applies to them as well.
Independence!
posted on 23/10/20
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diallo Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
comment by Plump Pumped (U22314)
posted 9 minutes ago
We had BREXIT, what would a snappy scottish or irish or Welsh independence campaign be called?
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The Welsh one would be Pradael.
Pr from Prydain (Britain) and adael from gadael (leave)
The Scottish and Irish can think about theirs!
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Snappy and original
Although Pradael sounds like something Gimli the son of gloin would eat for breakfast !
🤣
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Tolkien was fascinated by the Welsh language. A lot of the words used in LOTR sound Welsh and Arwen, for example, is a Welsh name.
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Yes, I know. I was just being puerile 🙂
posted on 23/10/20
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right; you have to be effective (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
Sorry for derailing, Diafol.
I’ve banned myself from the politics thread, needed to vent about the UK govt’s insane Brexit strategy and saw WWSPD, whom I know shares my frustrations.
As to the OP, my twopenneth is that decentralisation is usually good for democracy, something in short supply and under threat in the UK. Ultimately, it should be up to the Welsh people to determine their own futures, and should they get the opportunity to do so, I’d encourage them to ensure the debate didn’t focus solely on financial matters.
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posted on 23/10/20
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Ireland-Kenya Relations Secretary (U3126)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right; you have to be effective (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
Sorry for derailing, Diafol.
I’ve banned myself from the politics thread, needed to vent about the UK govt’s insane Brexit strategy and saw WWSPD, whom I know shares my frustrations.
As to the OP, my twopenneth is that decentralisation is usually good for democracy, something in short supply and under threat in the UK. Ultimately, it should be up to the Welsh people to determine their own futures, and should they get the opportunity to do so, I’d encourage them to ensure the debate didn’t focus solely on financial matters.
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Hope you are still busy encouraging people to keep their eyes on post-Brexit manoeuvrings over on the politics thread, WWSPD.
I fear the subject has completely fallen off some people’s radars (understandably) whilst there are still some truly frightening - and frighteningly stupid - things happening in government.
posted on 23/10/20
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right; you have to be effective (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Ireland-Kenya Relations Secretary (U3126)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by rosso - it’s not good enough to be right; you have to be effective (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
Sorry for derailing, Diafol.
I’ve banned myself from the politics thread, needed to vent about the UK govt’s insane Brexit strategy and saw WWSPD, whom I know shares my frustrations.
As to the OP, my twopenneth is that decentralisation is usually good for democracy, something in short supply and under threat in the UK. Ultimately, it should be up to the Welsh people to determine their own futures, and should they get the opportunity to do so, I’d encourage them to ensure the debate didn’t focus solely on financial matters.
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Hope you are still busy encouraging people to keep their eyes on post-Brexit manoeuvrings over on the politics thread, WWSPD.
I fear the subject has completely fallen off some people’s radars (understandably) whilst there are still some truly frightening - and frighteningly stupid - things happening in government.
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As always!
posted on 23/10/20
I think that "economics" is fast becoming a poor measure to go by when making decisions, at least to a point. What people usually mean by economy in these situations is GDP and growth in the most basic terms.
For instance Wales may well suffer in both of those metrics by splitting from England however it certainly would'nt have to mean a drop in living standards or happiness for its citizens. Both of which are far more important.
If your countries tax wealth is constantly given away to friends of corrupt Tory politicians as is happening at the moment then you're not necessarily benefitting from a higher GDP. Or if property prices are completely out of control because your government has no interest in building quality low cost homes or regulating the market then it really doesn't help average people. Massive household debts and skyrocketing house prices may however be used to give an impression of economic prosperity...
If any country had the chance to split from what's going on in English politics right now no one can blame them.
posted on 23/10/20
in principle, independence is fine... to a point. and it's what devolution should have provided.
each nation with complete control over it's own internal affairs, with overarching rules on foreign policy, economics etc applied to the whole.
what actually happened is scotland got most of the control they wanted over their own country. and still wanted to get to vote in westminster on things that applied only to england, or to england and wales.
whilst wales got shafted by both england and scotland. (and is still being shafted by a completely useless national assembly which just wants different rules on certain things just for the sake of 'being different' not for any logical reason)
the simple fact though, is that you can't take economics out of the equation, even to discuss things in principle first. despite what money the uk government may be wasting. the amount spent subsidising wales far outstrips what wales raises in taxes, or could expect to cover independently with any increase in welsh GDP.
apart from being certain economic suicide in the short term, and almost certain in the long term. differing tax rates and vat etc, using the same currency would cause too much disruption within the internal market, and using a separate welsh only currency would be exploited by the markets to the detriment of the majority welsh inhabitants.
that said. something will need to change economically at some point anyway. pure capitalism is doomed. it relies on growth, which has limits that are already being strained, plus jobs were already being lost to automation and AI, and covid is only increasing the pace of that change.
at some point the number of people without jobs will outnumber those with jobs and the whole concept of currency will need to be rethought, but politicians are just burying their heads in the trough, ignoring what's coming, just trying to scoop up as much wealth as they can whilst the gravy train is still running.
posted on 24/10/20
comment by 20th title coming soon. (U12879)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
in principle, independence is fine... to a point. and it's what devolution should have provided.
each nation with complete control over it's own internal affairs, with overarching rules on foreign policy, economics etc applied to the whole.
what actually happened is scotland got most of the control they wanted over their own country. and still wanted to get to vote in westminster on things that applied only to england, or to england and wales.
whilst wales got shafted by both england and scotland. (and is still being shafted by a completely useless national assembly which just wants different rules on certain things just for the sake of 'being different' not for any logical reason)
the simple fact though, is that you can't take economics out of the equation, even to discuss things in principle first. despite what money the uk government may be wasting. the amount spent subsidising wales far outstrips what wales raises in taxes, or could expect to cover independently with any increase in welsh GDP.
apart from being certain economic suicide in the short term, and almost certain in the long term. differing tax rates and vat etc, using the same currency would cause too much disruption within the internal market, and using a separate welsh only currency would be exploited by the markets to the detriment of the majority welsh inhabitants.
that said. something will need to change economically at some point anyway. pure capitalism is doomed. it relies on growth, which has limits that are already being strained, plus jobs were already being lost to automation and AI, and covid is only increasing the pace of that change.
at some point the number of people without jobs will outnumber those with jobs and the whole concept of currency will need to be rethought, but politicians are just burying their heads in the trough, ignoring what's coming, just trying to scoop up as much wealth as they can whilst the gravy train is still running.
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Subsidising to prop up a model that's rapidly becoming unfit for purpose (is environmentally already completely unfit). There has to be a better way and as you mention soon there will be no choice but to move on.
posted on 24/10/20
my suggestions for forcing politicians to actually do something that improves the lives of the average citizen.
1. anyone who actually wants the job of pm / first minister / president etc.. is barred from public office.
2. politicians are barred from accessing their private wealth (outside of their politicians salary) in any form during their terms of office.
3. politicians are barred from profiting from public office, even after leaving that role.
4. politicians are paid no more than the average wage of the population of their constituency.
5. no expense accounts. travel arrangements / accommodation etc are arranged and paid by a central office, which is required to book only basic fares.
6. all ballot papers are to include the option 'none of the above'. if 'none of the above' wins the vote, it is deemed that the population actively does not want to be represented by the standing candidates. they are barred from re-standing and the election is re-run with new candidates.
7. taxpayer's money is not squandered on elections. all elections campaigns are to be funded only by the candidates own money or the parties own money.
the taxpayers money normally wasted on electioneering is spent on something useful instead.
posted on 24/10/20
Time for England to declare indepenance from the UK - it's the simplest solution and would please everybody.
Wales and Scotland stay in the EU, Irish reunification, and the English get their brexit and as many unicorns as they can swallow.
posted on 24/10/20
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator