Feck me

comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.

Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.

BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
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Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
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If there are lies, you call them out !

If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.

BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!

Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.

Attempting to lay any responsibility at the feet of the Remain campaign I am going to be kind and suggest is simply disingenuous.
———
He’s a Tory bootlicker, what do you expect?

Didn't help you had people voting leave as a protest vote against the government despite all polling indicating it was always going to be close.

I distinctly remember the very first guy interviewed on ITV after the vote saying he did just that as he didn't think leave would actually win

BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!
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I agree Remain should have been better but what could they actually say? There were experts on everyday saying if we leave this will happen, and they were dismissed.

A vote for remain was a vote for the status quo, it's much easier to appeal to the masses when you're arguing for change and promising them how rosy the future will be.

Remain weren’t just battling against the Leave campaign either. They were up against decades of xenophobia and anti EU rhetoric in the press.

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 18 minutes ago
Remain weren’t just battling against the Leave campaign either. They were up against decades of xenophobia and anti EU rhetoric in the press.
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disagree. They should have realised very very early on that their job was not to try and change the minds of those with entrenched xenophobic attitudes, but to engage those who, at worst, were on the fence or remainers (or at least not leavers). They had to get them out there voting.

Very easy to motivate the Leavers with some carefully planned rhetoric, get them whipped up and out their voting against all these things they are supposed to hate that are ruining our country.

Harder to generate the same passion for Remaining, but they failed to do this borne out of complacency and under estimating the Leavers

A much larger proportion of this population are remain, or 'not leave' but not enough of them voted. A very weak campaign to remain, not helped by Labour's wishy washy stance which didnt encourage anyone to make a choice, and a very effectively albeit sometimes dishonest leave campaign.

It gave the xenaphobes a voice while the moderates sat on their backsides, did nothing and are now moaning like hell about the results and the racist leavers

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 day ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ignacio Varga (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
Pretty sure it will be Sunak
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Tory membership electing a brown man? Pigs might fly.
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Would you like to make a wager?

How many ‘brown men’ have Labour had as leader? How many women of any race?

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Gordon Brown
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Brown and foreign
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First cyclops anaw

comment by Robb ☀️ ‘It was hot in 1976!’ ☀️ (U22716)
posted 1 day, 3 hours ago
It’s great news. It means Labour are more likely to get in.
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Guaranteed - they’ll still feck it up

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 15 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.

Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.

BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !

If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.

BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!

Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Brexit was enabled on massive lies, and you know it. Mostly pushed through on fear of immigration enabled by the right wing press and Farage.

I would hardly call that a victory.

I personally will never be a Brexiteer, although we are constantly told we are now all Brexiteers. I must certainly will never accept we were taking out of the EU, by just 2 per cent of a very large racist vote in the country.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
None of that gets away from Remain doing a shiiit job in convincing or engaging the nation on the importance of the EU to the average person. There was complacency across the board from Cameron to Corbyn, and taping into some basic xenophobia of the average person was an easy target for Leave.

Yes Leave ran an aggressive and dirty campaign and while you may think that Joe Public was misinformed, Remain failed to either counter this effectively or recognise the possibility of losing was very real and engage enough Remainers to vote.

BTW you dont need me to define democracy or remind you that a GE was held pretty much on the one Brexit issue and the Tories landslide it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bit hard to counter outright lies when people are stupid enough to believe them and dismiss your position as project fear because they can't handle being told that what they believe is categorically incorrect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there are lies, you call them out !

If people are idiots then democracy is flawed.

BUT still, if Remain had done a better job they would have attracted more votes, not necessarily convinced Leavers to change their minds, just for Remainers to get off their arrse and vote because the Remain campaign has told them how bloody critical this is!

Leavers voted in big numbers and it included masses of people never moved to vote before because the language of the campaign plumbed the depths and appealed to people who otherwise find politics boring bollox.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The lies were literally called out countless times. People didn't care because they wanted to believe what they were being told by the snake oil salesmen and so they put their fingers in their ears and cried about "project fear" if anyone pointed out that obvious lies.

Just like anti-vaxxers, they were told things that they wanted to believe from a (usually rightwing) source they wanted to trust and dismissed any dissidents as fake news.