So today we saw UK car sales at an all time high for 2016.
2.7million cars sold!
Only 10,000 were electric. So thats a whopping 0.4% (i rounded up as well) of car sales were electric.......
It has to be put into perspective Simon, people know and understand petrol/diesal, and are comfortable using it.
They don't by and large understand electric, apart from what Top Gear tells them, which is pretty much nonsense.
There is no doubt the market share for electric is tiny, but it is growing at an accelerated rate, The Tesla model x alone should see a massive jump, not only in usage but consumer knowledge.
All the car companies are now building electric cars, which in itself show where they think cars are going, there are also numerous startups, trying to grab a piece of the electric pie, Small as well as big, and they dont come bigger than Apple and Google.
Once people see the huge advantages of Electric, they will ditch petrol, these are early days, but there are already some compelling choices, which will only grow over the next five years.
jaguar i-pace for me, in a couple of years time.
the last barrier to electric cars taking a proper chunk of the market is the leap forward required in batter tech. once the distance is reliably up to 300-350 miles I think a lot of people will convert.
May be GB...
My car lease is up in 2 years think it'll be too soon still
incidentally, the power generating industry has based some of its mid to long term modelling around a high proportion of electric vehicles with the ability to push power back into the grid as well as pull it out. several million cars acting as giant energy reserves for flattening out production over the 24 hour cycle.
given the combined economic power of utilities and car manufacturers I think it is clear that e-cars ARE the future.
I agree it's the future it's how far into the future that's the question
5 years before we see next gen I reckon. although the way that petrol prices are rising there might be an incentive for people to move quicker.
uber also pushing the linking of driverless vehicles and electric engines - there business plan is to take over the majority of all transport in big cities besides underground systems.
I am going to test drive the Leaf and the Ioniq next week, I probably wont be changing my car till around September, but it will be interesting to see and feel what electric offers.
I'll let you know what I make of the experience, I have never driven an electric car before so should be interesting.
I actually hardly drive, my misses uses the car probably 95% of the time.
friend had a Honda (can't remember which type but was v early on hybrid) and then a leaf. the leaf is nice enough and a comfortable ride for urban and short journeys. if people do 95% of their driving on 5 miles hops round town then a leaf would probably fit the bill as it would only need charging once or twice a week overnight at home.
The Ioniq looks interesting. Can get pure hybrid, hybrid with plug in and pure electric options, and something I like on a quick search, inside it looks and feels like a normal car? The dashboard and that, looks familiar. Not a fan of the Tesla's inside actually that looks too futuristic and different, or that it's playing with driverless technology. If I wanted an electric car I'd want it to still be as close to driving a normal car as possible just for familiarity.
The ioniq is on the outside a nice looking understated car, which I like, inside as you say it is very familiar, but if i'm honest a little boring.
A few colour options would be apprieciated, and a few subtle LEDs would be nice, but as you say it is functional and has better range than the Leaf.
I think you would find driving an electric car far more easy and intuitive than a normal car, not only are they fun and responsive with instant torque, they can be driven just using one peddle.
In fact one of the reasons I am drawn to electric is the driving experience, but I actually want all the gizmo's and driving aids.
Opposite to me then which is fair, I see where you're coming from and likewise. The tech does look very interesting and though I'm not trying to fault the interior of the Tesla's, they look incredible..but would be more likely to want something familiar for a first electric car.
Also I didn't quite know so many manufacturers were putting out all electric cars, only just heard about the Hyundai and Jaguar from this thread. Surprised BMW i8 hasn't been mentioned, see quite a few of them around, though more a Tesla competitor than Leaf/Ioniq rival.
All these cars do make Chevrolet's Volt, which was seen as revolutionary when it came out like 6-7 years ago, look prehistoric. Swear it's range was around 100 miles or less on single charge?
Just checked, it first came out in 2011 and only had 35 miles charge
To be fair the Volt had a gasoline engine too, the new Bolt is all electric and I think it does 200 miles.
I do like the ioniq, and at the moment it is the one I'm most interested in, but a year from now that might change.
"friend had a Honda (can't remember which type but was v early on hybrid)"
Probably the original Honda Insight, which was an astonishing piece of kit for the time. Unfortunately it didn't sell that well, Honda gave up on hybrids for a few years and let Toyota utterly dominate the market.
Makes me sad looking at what Honda were doing in the early 2000s. The Insight, S2000, Civic & Integra Type-Rs, the NSX. Now they're just dull as poo.
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
"friend had a Honda (can't remember which type but was v early on hybrid)"
Probably the original Honda Insight, which was an astonishing piece of kit for the time. Unfortunately it didn't sell that well, Honda gave up on hybrids for a few years and let Toyota utterly dominate the market.
Makes me sad looking at what Honda were doing in the early 2000s. The Insight, S2000, Civic & Integra Type-Rs, the NSX. Now they're just dull as poo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new NSX isn't bad and the latest Civic Type R looks bonkers (in a good way imo). But you're right Honda cars are dull compared to 10-20 years ago. I would love to own an S2000.
Talking of hybrids, there's nothing like a Porsche 918.
Yes it was an Insight. Was amazingly.advanced for its time. Honda used to be cutting edge in a few areas.
I had an s2000 for a while - unbelievable fun to drive. Lethal if you didnt concentrate 😊
Just went into Hyundai, to try and test drive the Ioniq, unfortunately they don't do the electric yet (3 months time) could go to Birmingham and test drive it there but, I'll wait.
On a brighter note, went into Nissan to enquire about test driving the Leaf, and was offered a Leaf for a 4 day test drive, so if you see an extension cable coming out of someones letter box it's probably me.
just looked into that tesla model 3 there Amiga, you do realise that delivery of these cars is not expected til mid 2018 and thats in America where its being built ! god knows when that will mean for the UK? The production of the model 3 hasnt started yet and is expected mid this year. You can almost definitely expect delays on this as well as with most things nowadays.
Yeah well aware of the Tesla 3 delboy, I figure end of the year in America, but it wont be till the end of 2018, going into 2019, till we hope to see one here.
The one thing it shows is the demand is there for electric, the model 3 has the range and tech to make it practical and desirable, but yeah if I want one I will have to wait a while
Still my mrs liked the Leaf (haven't driven it) guy said he would call and hasn't got back to us, and the ioniq I like but the view through the back window, put my mrs off.
Will check the electric ioniq out when they are available at our local dealer, could go to Birmingham, but no rush and hopefully there will be more info on the model 3 by then too.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 16 minutes ago
Yeah well aware of the Tesla 3 delboy, I figure end of the year in America, but it wont be till the end of 2018, going into 2019, till we hope to see one here.
The one thing it shows is the demand is there for electric, the model 3 has the range and tech to make it practical and desirable, but yeah if I want one I will have to wait a while
Still my mrs liked the Leaf (haven't driven it) guy said he would call and hasn't got back to us, and the ioniq I like but the view through the back window, put my mrs off.
Will check the electric ioniq out when they are available at our local dealer, could go to Birmingham, but no rush and hopefully there will be more info on the model 3 by then too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A guy that has a horse where my mrs used to keep hers got a leaf last year, he really likes it to be fair. He said to her not to tell me he was getting one thro' embarassment ! He actually likes it and my mrs tried it, she says its a little weird and to be fair after sitting in it I just wasnt a fan. I love the sound and the feeling of a petrol engine and really wouldnt enjoy the experience of driving electric. That is purely my own selfish POV from what I like but I do suspect that there is a fair amount "respectability" that the electric cars do not have (yet) that puts a lot of consumers.
I dont think electric cars will ever have the same "thrill" that powerful petrol car engines provide, maybe in time as technology pushes on they can work on that aspect but its also proven in motorsport that electric just doesn't get the juices flowing....Formuala E never took off and its a major gripe within F1 that the hybrid cars sound awful in comparison and are also too quiet, so much so that they are artificially trying to increase the sound for next year.
The petrol heads will bemoan the coming of electric, but it has too many advantages, and is the future.
I think people equate noise to power, when in reality the petrol engine is horribly inneficient, electric motors offer 95% efficiency with the advantage of instant Torque.
The Tesla Model S (most expensive model) offers supercar performance, for a fraction of the price, and if you want real supercar electric, check out the Rimac concept one, it will outperform pretty much anything out there and would bring a smile to any petrol head driving it.
Electric is happening, maybe you should give a top of the range Tesla a test drive, I'm sure you would at least offer a small grin, albeit grudgingly.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 10 minutes ago
The petrol heads will bemoan the coming of electric, but it has too many advantages, and is the future.
I think people equate noise to power, when in reality the petrol engine is horribly inneficient, electric motors offer 95% efficiency with the advantage of instant Torque.
The Tesla Model S (most expensive model) offers supercar performance, for a fraction of the price, and if you want real supercar electric, check out the Rimac concept one, it will outperform pretty much anything out there and would bring a smile to any petrol head driving it.
Electric is happening, maybe you should give a top of the range Tesla a test drive, I'm sure you would at least offer a small grin, albeit grudgingly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Amiga I think your misunderstanding the point im making, I know fine well the advantages and the performance improvements electricity has, im just stating the facts in consumer feedback and fan feedback. Despite having a tiny engine in comparison to previous F1 cars last seasons cars were quicker and the fans do know it, but the sound and quietness of the cars was without doubt a turn off. This will 100% transfer over to the consumer market the sound is a big factor, otherwise companies would not be looking into the artificial sound creation (as well it being a safety factor) pedestrians want to be able to hear the cars also.
Im not trying to run down electric cars all im doing is bringin up valid points that have been raised thrown in with my own personal opinion.
Trust me im a huge motorsport fan (as your aware from these threads an overly enthusiastic sim racer also) have been all my life.
Clearly in time these things will be ironed out and people will adapt their preferences or just have to deal with the change.
Electric cars can be as fast as they want but if they sound like vacuum cleaners then that'll affect their popularity. A gas guzzling V8 might not be nearly as efficient but it's exciting hearing that roar. Can an electric car deliver that excitement? In the future maybe, but right now not really. Hybrids are a happy medium between the two (well sort of).
I am well aware of your motoring pedigree delboy, well compared to me at least, and if I was looking for an opinion on cars in this forum, you would be my first port of call.
But people have grown up with petrol cars and the noise they create, and for many that also equates to speed and excitement, but their noisy and powerful mitsubishi, won't look so impressive when the less expensive electric car leaves them standing.
It's a mindset, that will change over time, and Yohan, I think if you ever had the chance to drive the Rimac, you would find it every bit as exillerating as a petrol car.
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Death of the petrol car
Page 4 of 6
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posted on 5/1/17
So today we saw UK car sales at an all time high for 2016.
2.7million cars sold!
Only 10,000 were electric. So thats a whopping 0.4% (i rounded up as well) of car sales were electric.......
posted on 5/1/17
It has to be put into perspective Simon, people know and understand petrol/diesal, and are comfortable using it.
They don't by and large understand electric, apart from what Top Gear tells them, which is pretty much nonsense.
There is no doubt the market share for electric is tiny, but it is growing at an accelerated rate, The Tesla model x alone should see a massive jump, not only in usage but consumer knowledge.
All the car companies are now building electric cars, which in itself show where they think cars are going, there are also numerous startups, trying to grab a piece of the electric pie, Small as well as big, and they dont come bigger than Apple and Google.
Once people see the huge advantages of Electric, they will ditch petrol, these are early days, but there are already some compelling choices, which will only grow over the next five years.
posted on 7/1/17
jaguar i-pace for me, in a couple of years time.
the last barrier to electric cars taking a proper chunk of the market is the leap forward required in batter tech. once the distance is reliably up to 300-350 miles I think a lot of people will convert.
posted on 7/1/17
May be GB...
My car lease is up in 2 years think it'll be too soon still
posted on 7/1/17
incidentally, the power generating industry has based some of its mid to long term modelling around a high proportion of electric vehicles with the ability to push power back into the grid as well as pull it out. several million cars acting as giant energy reserves for flattening out production over the 24 hour cycle.
given the combined economic power of utilities and car manufacturers I think it is clear that e-cars ARE the future.
posted on 7/1/17
I agree it's the future it's how far into the future that's the question
posted on 7/1/17
5 years before we see next gen I reckon. although the way that petrol prices are rising there might be an incentive for people to move quicker.
uber also pushing the linking of driverless vehicles and electric engines - there business plan is to take over the majority of all transport in big cities besides underground systems.
posted on 7/1/17
I am going to test drive the Leaf and the Ioniq next week, I probably wont be changing my car till around September, but it will be interesting to see and feel what electric offers.
I'll let you know what I make of the experience, I have never driven an electric car before so should be interesting.
I actually hardly drive, my misses uses the car probably 95% of the time.
posted on 7/1/17
friend had a Honda (can't remember which type but was v early on hybrid) and then a leaf. the leaf is nice enough and a comfortable ride for urban and short journeys. if people do 95% of their driving on 5 miles hops round town then a leaf would probably fit the bill as it would only need charging once or twice a week overnight at home.
posted on 7/1/17
The Ioniq looks interesting. Can get pure hybrid, hybrid with plug in and pure electric options, and something I like on a quick search, inside it looks and feels like a normal car? The dashboard and that, looks familiar. Not a fan of the Tesla's inside actually that looks too futuristic and different, or that it's playing with driverless technology. If I wanted an electric car I'd want it to still be as close to driving a normal car as possible just for familiarity.
posted on 7/1/17
The ioniq is on the outside a nice looking understated car, which I like, inside as you say it is very familiar, but if i'm honest a little boring.
A few colour options would be apprieciated, and a few subtle LEDs would be nice, but as you say it is functional and has better range than the Leaf.
I think you would find driving an electric car far more easy and intuitive than a normal car, not only are they fun and responsive with instant torque, they can be driven just using one peddle.
In fact one of the reasons I am drawn to electric is the driving experience, but I actually want all the gizmo's and driving aids.
posted on 7/1/17
Opposite to me then which is fair, I see where you're coming from and likewise. The tech does look very interesting and though I'm not trying to fault the interior of the Tesla's, they look incredible..but would be more likely to want something familiar for a first electric car.
Also I didn't quite know so many manufacturers were putting out all electric cars, only just heard about the Hyundai and Jaguar from this thread. Surprised BMW i8 hasn't been mentioned, see quite a few of them around, though more a Tesla competitor than Leaf/Ioniq rival.
All these cars do make Chevrolet's Volt, which was seen as revolutionary when it came out like 6-7 years ago, look prehistoric. Swear it's range was around 100 miles or less on single charge?
posted on 7/1/17
Just checked, it first came out in 2011 and only had 35 miles charge
posted on 7/1/17
To be fair the Volt had a gasoline engine too, the new Bolt is all electric and I think it does 200 miles.
I do like the ioniq, and at the moment it is the one I'm most interested in, but a year from now that might change.
posted on 7/1/17
"friend had a Honda (can't remember which type but was v early on hybrid)"
Probably the original Honda Insight, which was an astonishing piece of kit for the time. Unfortunately it didn't sell that well, Honda gave up on hybrids for a few years and let Toyota utterly dominate the market.
Makes me sad looking at what Honda were doing in the early 2000s. The Insight, S2000, Civic & Integra Type-Rs, the NSX. Now they're just dull as poo.
posted on 7/1/17
comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
"friend had a Honda (can't remember which type but was v early on hybrid)"
Probably the original Honda Insight, which was an astonishing piece of kit for the time. Unfortunately it didn't sell that well, Honda gave up on hybrids for a few years and let Toyota utterly dominate the market.
Makes me sad looking at what Honda were doing in the early 2000s. The Insight, S2000, Civic & Integra Type-Rs, the NSX. Now they're just dull as poo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new NSX isn't bad and the latest Civic Type R looks bonkers (in a good way imo). But you're right Honda cars are dull compared to 10-20 years ago. I would love to own an S2000.
Talking of hybrids, there's nothing like a Porsche 918.
posted on 7/1/17
Yes it was an Insight. Was amazingly.advanced for its time. Honda used to be cutting edge in a few areas.
I had an s2000 for a while - unbelievable fun to drive. Lethal if you didnt concentrate 😊
posted on 10/1/17
Just went into Hyundai, to try and test drive the Ioniq, unfortunately they don't do the electric yet (3 months time) could go to Birmingham and test drive it there but, I'll wait.
On a brighter note, went into Nissan to enquire about test driving the Leaf, and was offered a Leaf for a 4 day test drive, so if you see an extension cable coming out of someones letter box it's probably me.
posted on 11/1/17
just looked into that tesla model 3 there Amiga, you do realise that delivery of these cars is not expected til mid 2018 and thats in America where its being built ! god knows when that will mean for the UK? The production of the model 3 hasnt started yet and is expected mid this year. You can almost definitely expect delays on this as well as with most things nowadays.
posted on 11/1/17
Yeah well aware of the Tesla 3 delboy, I figure end of the year in America, but it wont be till the end of 2018, going into 2019, till we hope to see one here.
The one thing it shows is the demand is there for electric, the model 3 has the range and tech to make it practical and desirable, but yeah if I want one I will have to wait a while
Still my mrs liked the Leaf (haven't driven it) guy said he would call and hasn't got back to us, and the ioniq I like but the view through the back window, put my mrs off.
Will check the electric ioniq out when they are available at our local dealer, could go to Birmingham, but no rush and hopefully there will be more info on the model 3 by then too.
posted on 11/1/17
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 16 minutes ago
Yeah well aware of the Tesla 3 delboy, I figure end of the year in America, but it wont be till the end of 2018, going into 2019, till we hope to see one here.
The one thing it shows is the demand is there for electric, the model 3 has the range and tech to make it practical and desirable, but yeah if I want one I will have to wait a while
Still my mrs liked the Leaf (haven't driven it) guy said he would call and hasn't got back to us, and the ioniq I like but the view through the back window, put my mrs off.
Will check the electric ioniq out when they are available at our local dealer, could go to Birmingham, but no rush and hopefully there will be more info on the model 3 by then too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A guy that has a horse where my mrs used to keep hers got a leaf last year, he really likes it to be fair. He said to her not to tell me he was getting one thro' embarassment ! He actually likes it and my mrs tried it, she says its a little weird and to be fair after sitting in it I just wasnt a fan. I love the sound and the feeling of a petrol engine and really wouldnt enjoy the experience of driving electric. That is purely my own selfish POV from what I like but I do suspect that there is a fair amount "respectability" that the electric cars do not have (yet) that puts a lot of consumers.
I dont think electric cars will ever have the same "thrill" that powerful petrol car engines provide, maybe in time as technology pushes on they can work on that aspect but its also proven in motorsport that electric just doesn't get the juices flowing....Formuala E never took off and its a major gripe within F1 that the hybrid cars sound awful in comparison and are also too quiet, so much so that they are artificially trying to increase the sound for next year.
posted on 11/1/17
The petrol heads will bemoan the coming of electric, but it has too many advantages, and is the future.
I think people equate noise to power, when in reality the petrol engine is horribly inneficient, electric motors offer 95% efficiency with the advantage of instant Torque.
The Tesla Model S (most expensive model) offers supercar performance, for a fraction of the price, and if you want real supercar electric, check out the Rimac concept one, it will outperform pretty much anything out there and would bring a smile to any petrol head driving it.
Electric is happening, maybe you should give a top of the range Tesla a test drive, I'm sure you would at least offer a small grin, albeit grudgingly.
posted on 11/1/17
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted 10 minutes ago
The petrol heads will bemoan the coming of electric, but it has too many advantages, and is the future.
I think people equate noise to power, when in reality the petrol engine is horribly inneficient, electric motors offer 95% efficiency with the advantage of instant Torque.
The Tesla Model S (most expensive model) offers supercar performance, for a fraction of the price, and if you want real supercar electric, check out the Rimac concept one, it will outperform pretty much anything out there and would bring a smile to any petrol head driving it.
Electric is happening, maybe you should give a top of the range Tesla a test drive, I'm sure you would at least offer a small grin, albeit grudgingly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Amiga I think your misunderstanding the point im making, I know fine well the advantages and the performance improvements electricity has, im just stating the facts in consumer feedback and fan feedback. Despite having a tiny engine in comparison to previous F1 cars last seasons cars were quicker and the fans do know it, but the sound and quietness of the cars was without doubt a turn off. This will 100% transfer over to the consumer market the sound is a big factor, otherwise companies would not be looking into the artificial sound creation (as well it being a safety factor) pedestrians want to be able to hear the cars also.
Im not trying to run down electric cars all im doing is bringin up valid points that have been raised thrown in with my own personal opinion.
Trust me im a huge motorsport fan (as your aware from these threads an overly enthusiastic sim racer also) have been all my life.
Clearly in time these things will be ironed out and people will adapt their preferences or just have to deal with the change.
posted on 11/1/17
Electric cars can be as fast as they want but if they sound like vacuum cleaners then that'll affect their popularity. A gas guzzling V8 might not be nearly as efficient but it's exciting hearing that roar. Can an electric car deliver that excitement? In the future maybe, but right now not really. Hybrids are a happy medium between the two (well sort of).
posted on 11/1/17
I am well aware of your motoring pedigree delboy, well compared to me at least, and if I was looking for an opinion on cars in this forum, you would be my first port of call.
But people have grown up with petrol cars and the noise they create, and for many that also equates to speed and excitement, but their noisy and powerful mitsubishi, won't look so impressive when the less expensive electric car leaves them standing.
It's a mindset, that will change over time, and Yohan, I think if you ever had the chance to drive the Rimac, you would find it every bit as exillerating as a petrol car.
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