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comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
KFC, personally I do not agree with mutilation as a form of punishment, however rare. I do not agree with the death penalty either, nor with eye-for-eye retribution generally.
Unfortunately, the video on slavery has been taken down, so I haven't been able to watch it.
I don't know what the Qur'an or your other holy books have to say about it either.
I do believe, however, that some of the companions held slaves (I don't know about Mohammad himself) and, since you noted the Ottoman and Safavid Empires as periods of peace amongst Muslims, I'd also point out that, as it appears, both captured, sold and kept slaves.
I'm interested to know what it establishes, because accounts of enslavement come all the way up to modern times with Boko Haram, and not that long ago with similar accusations levelled against the Gov't of Sudan in Darfur and what is now South Sudan.
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Hello mate, sorry it took so long but I was away from home for a while and between the last time we spoke and now the only time I've logged in is to quickly tell Robb to get his nob out of Ibras bum hole.
Anways....
Here's my answer.
Slavery was prevalent in the world before the dawn of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh) came into this world to find slavery already existing, with Arabia heavily reliant upon it to maintain social and economic stability.
With this in mind, Islam didn’t abruptly abolish slavery but banned it to certain degrees to suffocate it’s spread with the aim of bringing about it’s end completely.
First lets look at how the Quran encourages freeing slaves.
“It is not righteousness that you turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness . . . to spend of your substance . . . for the ransom of slaves.” (2:177)
“Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons . . . or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days.” (5:89)
“Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); . . . for those in bondage and in debt . . .” (9:60)
“But for those who divorce their wives . . . then wish to go back on the words they uttered, - (it is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: this you are admonished to perform . . . And if any has not (the wherewithal), he should fast for two months consecutively before they touch each other. But if any is unable to do so, he should feed sixty indigent ones.” (58:3-4)
“Verily We have created Man into toil and struggle. . . . And what will explain to you the path that is steep? - (It is freeing the bondman . . .” (90:4-13)
In Arabic the term “Abd” was used for a slave. God forbade that relationship with any human being, making it exclusively between humans and God. Which is why some Muslims put the word “Abdul” (slave or servant of) in front of the names of their children, who are named after one of the 99 names of God mentioned in the Quran and Hadith.
It is not permitted to use the word “Abd” to describe a human-to-human relationship.
How did the Prophet go about carrying out the commands set out in the Quran?
Enslavement through kidnapping, debts and abductions and child slavery were banned, abduction being the most common method of acquiring slaves during the Prophets time.
The Prophet said “I will testify on the day of judgement against the man who captures a free manand sells him into slavery.”
Labour slavery was also abolished…. ““Pay the Laborer his Wages Before his Sweat Dries” Muhammad (pbuh)
If you give a slave a job that’s to difficult then you have to assist the slave. “if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (more context further down the page)
Statuary slavery was also abolished (becoming a slave as a form of punishment for a crime committed)
Being married without consent was also considered a form of slavery and consequentially was also abolished.
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: “A virgin came to the Prophet (p) and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet allowed her to exercise her choice.”
Abu Hurairah reported the Prophet as saying “A woman who has been previously married should not be married until her permission is asked nor should a virgin be married without her permission.“ They (the people) asked “What is her permission, Apostle of God? He replied “it is by her keeping silence.”
The only stream of slavery left open was that of captured prisoners of war (POW’s) and this wasn’t enslavement is the true sense of the word. The Prophet ordered Muslims to treat these POW’s with so much dignity and respect that they couldn’t be defined as slaves in the true sense of the word and made it totally undesirable to own them in the first place.
• The Prophet said “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to liberate him.” This has literally got to be the first thing you think about when you hear the word slave. A poor black bloke getting whipped.
• Muslims had to clothe them from what they wore.
• Feed them from what they ate, and…
• Not over burden them with work or they would have to help their ‘slaves’
• “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050). “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050).
• As already mentioned if the ‘slave’ is forced into labour then they have to be paid.
Islam first followers were also in fact slaves, the most famous of which was Bilal ibn Rabah and it was he who was intrusted by the Prophet to become the first person with the honour to give the call to prayer.
Now ‘slave’ and ‘master’ have become practically equal, what use is their for keeping the POW? The encouragement from the commands in the Quran to free slaves exerted even more pressure on Muslims to emancipate captives.
Was there any other system in the world that you know of during the time, proceeding the time or several hundred years after the Prophets passing that encouraged or created legislation to freeing slaves?
As I said before, the worlds economy was running on slavery at that point, non Muslims have to recognise how revolutionary these legislations are. Abraham Lincoln is loved and cherished for saying only that if a slave was able to escape the southern states and then fight for the Northern states the he/she would be free.
Freeing slaves is considered an act of love for Allah and any act carried out for Allah is also a considered an act of worship and what dictates worship? Allahs Sharia…. Part of sharia is Zakat (charity) and freeing slaves is mentioned as the greatest form of charity in the Quran.
To further prove that Islam was after the eventual abolishment of every stream of slavery, Muslims seek the day when nobody will be in need of Zakat.
The Prophet said, "The Hour (Day of Judgment) will not be established till your wealth increases so much so that one will be worried, for no one will accept his Zakat and the person to whom he will give it will reply, 'I am not in need of it.'
So why keep this last stream of ‘slavery’ open temporarily? Well here’s one quick reason I’m aware of…
As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, slavery was the norm in pre-Islamic Arabia and throughout the world, so much so that everybody was heavily reliant upon it to maintain social and economic stability.
This meant that if people were forced to give up slaves from the very first day, they would more than likely rebel or left feeling resentful towards the Prophet and Islam.
Closing all streams of slavery with the exception of those captured on the battle field and then producing legislation to treat them with total respect, gave the illusion needed that people weren’t giving up their slaves against their will.
The Prophets teachings were even echoed through his companions long after his passing, as a side note, proving that Muslim leaders today do not practise Islamic teachings.
During the reign of Caliph Umar ibn al-KhattΔb (Prophets companion) as Caliph, he entered battle with the Persians who sought to invade Muslim lands and stop Islam from growing.
Just before the the battle of Qadisiya was to take place, the Persian King Rustam sent a letter to the Muslims requesting to speak to a representative intelligent enough to answer his questions. Below is a small segment of what was said…
“Mughira : The most important pillar of this faith is to bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammed is His messenger.” Rustam : “This is fine. Anything else?” Mughira : “To remove men from the slavery of men and to lead them towards the worship of Allah.” Rustam : “This is fine. Anything else?” Mughira : “The children of Adam are brothers to one another. They are the progeny of one pair of parents. In other words, the Arab and non-Arab, by virtue of being human, are all equal”
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* -
What is your opinion on Mufti Menk? He seems quite popular and from what I've seen of him, I think he would be a good spiritual figurehead for the Islamic world.
I recall you saying though that you aren't keen on any Muslim scholar around atm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I was talking about Muslim leaders, heads of state not scholars.
I am highly critical of a lot of scholars but I do listen to a few like Sheikh Omar Suleiman, Abdullah Al Andalusi and Asadullah Al Andalusi.
I don't like the way Menk goes about his business, he's a bit saudiafied (not a word I know)
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Thanks fellas for your kind wishes and thoughts.
Surgery is actually in a couple of weeks but due to his condition we have to have a let of tests done so lots of appointments.
Sleep study, heart checks etc etc. Will update an and when
Thanks again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Inshallah all goes well mate.
itsonlyagame
I found another link to the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR50Lw_16zo
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
KFC, personally I do not agree with mutilation as a form of punishment, however rare. I do not agree with the death penalty either, nor with eye-for-eye retribution generally.
---------------------------
Can you go into a little more detail mate.
Are you saying that you agree with prison as a form of punishment?
Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom.
If you do can you tell me how you have rationalised it?
The death penalty is separated from the state in Islam, the punishment is decided by the family of the deceased because Islam is a religion based on compassion.
The family are encouraged to show mercy, the state only acts as the executioner in this case.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom?"
I wouldn't say that incarcerating a human being for 30-40 years and failing to protect that person from physical or sexual violence is merciful, no.
Prisons should exist to protect the wider population from the actions of dangerous convicted offenders whilst those people are rehabilitated. During the rehabilitation period, convicts' universal human rights should be protected by the state, including, obviously, their physical well being.
We need to get away from the idea that judicial sentencing, including prison time, should be about punishment.
We know as a fact that the stick doesn't work either as a pre-crime deterrent or as a tool against re-offending; there's decades of evidence from countries around the world that has demonstrated conclusively that capital, corporal and financial punitive sentencing do not act to reduce crime rates or make for safer society.
We need the law and judicial sentencing, with public safety at the heart of its thinking, to focus on the rehabilitation, education and reintegration of convicts, and away from punitive acts.
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 3 hours, 27 minutes ago
KFC, you make me feel much better about the lengths of some of my posts hahaha.
Don't change though, most topics can't be addressed meaningfully in just 140 characters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
πππ
comment by rossobianchi - Got_Nameback (U17054)
posted 48 minutes ago
"Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom?"
I wouldn't say that incarcerating a human being for 30-40 years and failing to protect that person from physical or sexual violence is merciful, no.
Prisons should exist to protect the wider population from the actions of dangerous convicted offenders whilst those people are rehabilitated. During the rehabilitation period, convicts' universal human rights should be protected by the state, including, obviously, their physical well being.
We need to get away from the idea that judicial sentencing, including prison time, should be about punishment.
We know as a fact that the stick doesn't work either as a pre-crime deterrent or as a tool against re-offending; there's decades of evidence from countries around the world that has demonstrated conclusively that capital, corporal and financial punitive sentencing do not act to reduce crime rates or make for safer society.
We need the law and judicial sentencing, with public safety at the heart of its thinking, to focus on the rehabilitation, education and reintegration of convicts, and away from punitive acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso did you read our earlier posts for context? You might find it interesting.
FYI I strongly agree that prison should be about rehab!
R.I.P To those who have fallen in Sweden's horrific terror attack last night.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
R.I.P To those who have fallen in Sweden's horrific terror attack last night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trump referred to a non-existent terrorist situation in Sweden yesterday during his Florida rally.
Back to campaign mode, as he needs his ego massaged a bit after a hard week.
I actually felt really bad for not noticing there was an incident....
Just reading up on the whole Sweden thing and apparently something did happen in Gothenburg last month.
3 neo-Nazis were arrested because they were targeting an Asylum centre for refugees with a home made bomb.
I didn't see this in the news anywhere, imagine if it was a refugee targeting somewhere with a home made bomb.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/16/new-york-mosque-attack-plan-robert-doggart-convicted
Not convicted of terrorism...
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi - Got_Nameback (U17054)
posted 48 minutes ago
"Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom?"
I wouldn't say that incarcerating a human being for 30-40 years and failing to protect that person from physical or sexual violence is merciful, no.
Prisons should exist to protect the wider population from the actions of dangerous convicted offenders whilst those people are rehabilitated. During the rehabilitation period, convicts' universal human rights should be protected by the state, including, obviously, their physical well being.
We need to get away from the idea that judicial sentencing, including prison time, should be about punishment.
We know as a fact that the stick doesn't work either as a pre-crime deterrent or as a tool against re-offending; there's decades of evidence from countries around the world that has demonstrated conclusively that capital, corporal and financial punitive sentencing do not act to reduce crime rates or make for safer society.
We need the law and judicial sentencing, with public safety at the heart of its thinking, to focus on the rehabilitation, education and reintegration of convicts, and away from punitive acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso did you read our earlier posts for context? You might find it interesting.
FYI I strongly agree that prison should be about rehab!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've not delved too deeply yet mate; I've had a (relatively ) busy week, so I've got a bit of catching up to do on this thread.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
R.I.P To those who have fallen in Sweden's horrific terror attack last night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trump referred to a non-existent terrorist situation in Sweden yesterday during his Florida rally.
Back to campaign mode, as he needs his ego massaged a bit after a hard week.
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Hahaha! Dear God....
I was feeling much thicker than usual for apparently being so oblivious to recent Swedish terror attacks.
Is his whole "fake news" shtick all derived from him being a compulsive liar or are his comprehension skills so non-existent that he can't discern the difference?
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Despite Trump's obvious literate shortcomings he's not stupid.
The whole fake news nonsense has been purposely created to discredit anything negative, or which may show him in a bad light. To the point when demonstrably clear facts can be challenged.
I can't see how the administration can keep this type of narrative going for four years mind you. It's only been a month
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 15 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by Sir Digby (U6039)
posted 19 hours, 57 minutes ago
As the lefts view of call everyone name who disagrees with you doesn't work. Proof is in recent elections
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Hahaha. Dude, you think the Right call names if someone disagrees? Facking hell. If you think the Right are above name calling then here are a few links. Each separate incidents after Trump won. Please read all of these and then honestly answer whether you think the Right don't abuse those with differing political alignments.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/23/donald-trump-carl-paladino-michelle-obama
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/the-nonprofit-director-who-called-michelle-obama-an-ape-in-heels-has-lost-her-job--for-good-20161227-gtinjq.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/west-virginia-mayor-michelle-obama-racist-facebook-trnd/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/doctor-michelle-obama-monkey-face_us_584069a7e4b017f37fe35241
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Did I claim the right didn't have individuals who were stupid?
My point was towards words such as racist, bigot, fascist, comparing anything to Hitler, really didn't help the cause. But I guess you disagree which is fair enough, why do you think these people were uncomfortable voting for Hilary?
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comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
KFC, personally I do not agree with mutilation as a form of punishment, however rare. I do not agree with the death penalty either, nor with eye-for-eye retribution generally.
Unfortunately, the video on slavery has been taken down, so I haven't been able to watch it.
I don't know what the Qur'an or your other holy books have to say about it either.
I do believe, however, that some of the companions held slaves (I don't know about Mohammad himself) and, since you noted the Ottoman and Safavid Empires as periods of peace amongst Muslims, I'd also point out that, as it appears, both captured, sold and kept slaves.
I'm interested to know what it establishes, because accounts of enslavement come all the way up to modern times with Boko Haram, and not that long ago with similar accusations levelled against the Gov't of Sudan in Darfur and what is now South Sudan.
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Hello mate, sorry it took so long but I was away from home for a while and between the last time we spoke and now the only time I've logged in is to quickly tell Robb to get his nob out of Ibras bum hole.
Anways....
Here's my answer.
Slavery was prevalent in the world before the dawn of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh) came into this world to find slavery already existing, with Arabia heavily reliant upon it to maintain social and economic stability.
With this in mind, Islam didn’t abruptly abolish slavery but banned it to certain degrees to suffocate it’s spread with the aim of bringing about it’s end completely.
First lets look at how the Quran encourages freeing slaves.
“It is not righteousness that you turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness . . . to spend of your substance . . . for the ransom of slaves.” (2:177)
“Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons . . . or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days.” (5:89)
“Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); . . . for those in bondage and in debt . . .” (9:60)
“But for those who divorce their wives . . . then wish to go back on the words they uttered, - (it is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: this you are admonished to perform . . . And if any has not (the wherewithal), he should fast for two months consecutively before they touch each other. But if any is unable to do so, he should feed sixty indigent ones.” (58:3-4)
“Verily We have created Man into toil and struggle. . . . And what will explain to you the path that is steep? - (It is freeing the bondman . . .” (90:4-13)
In Arabic the term “Abd” was used for a slave. God forbade that relationship with any human being, making it exclusively between humans and God. Which is why some Muslims put the word “Abdul” (slave or servant of) in front of the names of their children, who are named after one of the 99 names of God mentioned in the Quran and Hadith.
It is not permitted to use the word “Abd” to describe a human-to-human relationship.
How did the Prophet go about carrying out the commands set out in the Quran?
Enslavement through kidnapping, debts and abductions and child slavery were banned, abduction being the most common method of acquiring slaves during the Prophets time.
The Prophet said “I will testify on the day of judgement against the man who captures a free manand sells him into slavery.”
Labour slavery was also abolished…. ““Pay the Laborer his Wages Before his Sweat Dries” Muhammad (pbuh)
If you give a slave a job that’s to difficult then you have to assist the slave. “if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (more context further down the page)
Statuary slavery was also abolished (becoming a slave as a form of punishment for a crime committed)
Being married without consent was also considered a form of slavery and consequentially was also abolished.
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: “A virgin came to the Prophet (p) and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet allowed her to exercise her choice.”
Abu Hurairah reported the Prophet as saying “A woman who has been previously married should not be married until her permission is asked nor should a virgin be married without her permission.“ They (the people) asked “What is her permission, Apostle of God? He replied “it is by her keeping silence.”
The only stream of slavery left open was that of captured prisoners of war (POW’s) and this wasn’t enslavement is the true sense of the word. The Prophet ordered Muslims to treat these POW’s with so much dignity and respect that they couldn’t be defined as slaves in the true sense of the word and made it totally undesirable to own them in the first place.
• The Prophet said “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to liberate him.” This has literally got to be the first thing you think about when you hear the word slave. A poor black bloke getting whipped.
• Muslims had to clothe them from what they wore.
• Feed them from what they ate, and…
• Not over burden them with work or they would have to help their ‘slaves’
• “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050). “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050).
• As already mentioned if the ‘slave’ is forced into labour then they have to be paid.
Islam first followers were also in fact slaves, the most famous of which was Bilal ibn Rabah and it was he who was intrusted by the Prophet to become the first person with the honour to give the call to prayer.
Now ‘slave’ and ‘master’ have become practically equal, what use is their for keeping the POW? The encouragement from the commands in the Quran to free slaves exerted even more pressure on Muslims to emancipate captives.
Was there any other system in the world that you know of during the time, proceeding the time or several hundred years after the Prophets passing that encouraged or created legislation to freeing slaves?
As I said before, the worlds economy was running on slavery at that point, non Muslims have to recognise how revolutionary these legislations are. Abraham Lincoln is loved and cherished for saying only that if a slave was able to escape the southern states and then fight for the Northern states the he/she would be free.
Freeing slaves is considered an act of love for Allah and any act carried out for Allah is also a considered an act of worship and what dictates worship? Allahs Sharia…. Part of sharia is Zakat (charity) and freeing slaves is mentioned as the greatest form of charity in the Quran.
To further prove that Islam was after the eventual abolishment of every stream of slavery, Muslims seek the day when nobody will be in need of Zakat.
The Prophet said, "The Hour (Day of Judgment) will not be established till your wealth increases so much so that one will be worried, for no one will accept his Zakat and the person to whom he will give it will reply, 'I am not in need of it.'
So why keep this last stream of ‘slavery’ open temporarily? Well here’s one quick reason I’m aware of…
As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, slavery was the norm in pre-Islamic Arabia and throughout the world, so much so that everybody was heavily reliant upon it to maintain social and economic stability.
This meant that if people were forced to give up slaves from the very first day, they would more than likely rebel or left feeling resentful towards the Prophet and Islam.
Closing all streams of slavery with the exception of those captured on the battle field and then producing legislation to treat them with total respect, gave the illusion needed that people weren’t giving up their slaves against their will.
The Prophets teachings were even echoed through his companions long after his passing, as a side note, proving that Muslim leaders today do not practise Islamic teachings.
During the reign of Caliph Umar ibn al-KhattΔb (Prophets companion) as Caliph, he entered battle with the Persians who sought to invade Muslim lands and stop Islam from growing.
Just before the the battle of Qadisiya was to take place, the Persian King Rustam sent a letter to the Muslims requesting to speak to a representative intelligent enough to answer his questions. Below is a small segment of what was said…
“Mughira : The most important pillar of this faith is to bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammed is His messenger.” Rustam : “This is fine. Anything else?” Mughira : “To remove men from the slavery of men and to lead them towards the worship of Allah.” Rustam : “This is fine. Anything else?” Mughira : “The children of Adam are brothers to one another. They are the progeny of one pair of parents. In other words, the Arab and non-Arab, by virtue of being human, are all equal”
posted on 19/2/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* -
What is your opinion on Mufti Menk? He seems quite popular and from what I've seen of him, I think he would be a good spiritual figurehead for the Islamic world.
I recall you saying though that you aren't keen on any Muslim scholar around atm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I was talking about Muslim leaders, heads of state not scholars.
I am highly critical of a lot of scholars but I do listen to a few like Sheikh Omar Suleiman, Abdullah Al Andalusi and Asadullah Al Andalusi.
I don't like the way Menk goes about his business, he's a bit saudiafied (not a word I know)
posted on 19/2/17
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 1 week, 1 day ago
Thanks fellas for your kind wishes and thoughts.
Surgery is actually in a couple of weeks but due to his condition we have to have a let of tests done so lots of appointments.
Sleep study, heart checks etc etc. Will update an and when
Thanks again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Inshallah all goes well mate.
posted on 19/2/17
itsonlyagame
I found another link to the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR50Lw_16zo
posted on 19/2/17
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 week, 4 days ago
KFC, personally I do not agree with mutilation as a form of punishment, however rare. I do not agree with the death penalty either, nor with eye-for-eye retribution generally.
---------------------------
Can you go into a little more detail mate.
Are you saying that you agree with prison as a form of punishment?
Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom.
If you do can you tell me how you have rationalised it?
The death penalty is separated from the state in Islam, the punishment is decided by the family of the deceased because Islam is a religion based on compassion.
The family are encouraged to show mercy, the state only acts as the executioner in this case.
posted on 19/2/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/17
"Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom?"
I wouldn't say that incarcerating a human being for 30-40 years and failing to protect that person from physical or sexual violence is merciful, no.
Prisons should exist to protect the wider population from the actions of dangerous convicted offenders whilst those people are rehabilitated. During the rehabilitation period, convicts' universal human rights should be protected by the state, including, obviously, their physical well being.
We need to get away from the idea that judicial sentencing, including prison time, should be about punishment.
We know as a fact that the stick doesn't work either as a pre-crime deterrent or as a tool against re-offending; there's decades of evidence from countries around the world that has demonstrated conclusively that capital, corporal and financial punitive sentencing do not act to reduce crime rates or make for safer society.
We need the law and judicial sentencing, with public safety at the heart of its thinking, to focus on the rehabilitation, education and reintegration of convicts, and away from punitive acts.
posted on 19/2/17
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 3 hours, 27 minutes ago
KFC, you make me feel much better about the lengths of some of my posts hahaha.
Don't change though, most topics can't be addressed meaningfully in just 140 characters.
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πππ
posted on 19/2/17
comment by rossobianchi - Got_Nameback (U17054)
posted 48 minutes ago
"Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom?"
I wouldn't say that incarcerating a human being for 30-40 years and failing to protect that person from physical or sexual violence is merciful, no.
Prisons should exist to protect the wider population from the actions of dangerous convicted offenders whilst those people are rehabilitated. During the rehabilitation period, convicts' universal human rights should be protected by the state, including, obviously, their physical well being.
We need to get away from the idea that judicial sentencing, including prison time, should be about punishment.
We know as a fact that the stick doesn't work either as a pre-crime deterrent or as a tool against re-offending; there's decades of evidence from countries around the world that has demonstrated conclusively that capital, corporal and financial punitive sentencing do not act to reduce crime rates or make for safer society.
We need the law and judicial sentencing, with public safety at the heart of its thinking, to focus on the rehabilitation, education and reintegration of convicts, and away from punitive acts.
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Rosso did you read our earlier posts for context? You might find it interesting.
FYI I strongly agree that prison should be about rehab!
posted on 19/2/17
R.I.P To those who have fallen in Sweden's horrific terror attack last night.
posted on 19/2/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/17
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
R.I.P To those who have fallen in Sweden's horrific terror attack last night.
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???
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Trump referred to a non-existent terrorist situation in Sweden yesterday during his Florida rally.
Back to campaign mode, as he needs his ego massaged a bit after a hard week.
posted on 19/2/17
I actually felt really bad for not noticing there was an incident....
posted on 19/2/17
Just reading up on the whole Sweden thing and apparently something did happen in Gothenburg last month.
3 neo-Nazis were arrested because they were targeting an Asylum centre for refugees with a home made bomb.
I didn't see this in the news anywhere, imagine if it was a refugee targeting somewhere with a home made bomb.
posted on 19/2/17
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/16/new-york-mosque-attack-plan-robert-doggart-convicted
Not convicted of terrorism...
posted on 19/2/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/17
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 5 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi - Got_Nameback (U17054)
posted 48 minutes ago
"Do you think incarcerating a human being to 30-40 years in prison with the very real prospect of being beaten and raped a more merciful option than getting your hand lopped off and then going back to your family/freedom?"
I wouldn't say that incarcerating a human being for 30-40 years and failing to protect that person from physical or sexual violence is merciful, no.
Prisons should exist to protect the wider population from the actions of dangerous convicted offenders whilst those people are rehabilitated. During the rehabilitation period, convicts' universal human rights should be protected by the state, including, obviously, their physical well being.
We need to get away from the idea that judicial sentencing, including prison time, should be about punishment.
We know as a fact that the stick doesn't work either as a pre-crime deterrent or as a tool against re-offending; there's decades of evidence from countries around the world that has demonstrated conclusively that capital, corporal and financial punitive sentencing do not act to reduce crime rates or make for safer society.
We need the law and judicial sentencing, with public safety at the heart of its thinking, to focus on the rehabilitation, education and reintegration of convicts, and away from punitive acts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosso did you read our earlier posts for context? You might find it interesting.
FYI I strongly agree that prison should be about rehab!
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I've not delved too deeply yet mate; I've had a (relatively ) busy week, so I've got a bit of catching up to do on this thread.
posted on 19/2/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/2/17
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
R.I.P To those who have fallen in Sweden's horrific terror attack last night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trump referred to a non-existent terrorist situation in Sweden yesterday during his Florida rally.
Back to campaign mode, as he needs his ego massaged a bit after a hard week.
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Hahaha! Dear God....
I was feeling much thicker than usual for apparently being so oblivious to recent Swedish terror attacks.
Is his whole "fake news" shtick all derived from him being a compulsive liar or are his comprehension skills so non-existent that he can't discern the difference?
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Despite Trump's obvious literate shortcomings he's not stupid.
The whole fake news nonsense has been purposely created to discredit anything negative, or which may show him in a bad light. To the point when demonstrably clear facts can be challenged.
I can't see how the administration can keep this type of narrative going for four years mind you. It's only been a month
posted on 19/2/17
comment by Brightdave: (U11711)
posted 15 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by Sir Digby (U6039)
posted 19 hours, 57 minutes ago
As the lefts view of call everyone name who disagrees with you doesn't work. Proof is in recent elections
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Hahaha. Dude, you think the Right call names if someone disagrees? Facking hell. If you think the Right are above name calling then here are a few links. Each separate incidents after Trump won. Please read all of these and then honestly answer whether you think the Right don't abuse those with differing political alignments.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/23/donald-trump-carl-paladino-michelle-obama
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/the-nonprofit-director-who-called-michelle-obama-an-ape-in-heels-has-lost-her-job--for-good-20161227-gtinjq.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/west-virginia-mayor-michelle-obama-racist-facebook-trnd/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/doctor-michelle-obama-monkey-face_us_584069a7e4b017f37fe35241
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Did I claim the right didn't have individuals who were stupid?
My point was towards words such as racist, bigot, fascist, comparing anything to Hitler, really didn't help the cause. But I guess you disagree which is fair enough, why do you think these people were uncomfortable voting for Hilary?
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