I don't think it's down to individual players or the need to recruit defenders. We play a very attacking system and press from the front which makes it easier for us to be got at. Also we lack a dedicated defensive midfielder. Basically our defenders are always in vulnerable situations when teams counter or get the ball wide. When we are on it with our pressing and attacking that's fine but when we aren't the defence is badly stretched.
Also throwing on forwards for midfielders makes us even more vulnerable at the back. Against Swansea when we got back to 2-2 We should have been calling Sturridge back to the bench, as we had already seen how vulnerable the defence was left on numerous occasions. In fact Lucas should have come on in my opinion. If that then got us to a good place in terms of helping the defence on their counters then we could have brought an attacker on later in the game.
It's easy to blame individuals but as a team we were way too open which was magnified further with the changes.
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't think it's down to individual players or the need to recruit defenders. We play a very attacking system and press from the front which makes it easier for us to be got at. Also we lack a dedicated defensive midfielder. Basically our defenders are always in vulnerable situations when teams counter or get the ball wide. When we are on it with our pressing and attacking that's fine but when we aren't the defence is badly stretched.
Also throwing on forwards for midfielders makes us even more vulnerable at the back. Against Swansea when we got back to 2-2 We should have been calling Sturridge back to the bench, as we had already seen how vulnerable the defence was left on numerous occasions. In fact Lucas should have come on in my opinion. If that then got us to a good place in terms of helping the defence on their counters then we could have brought an attacker on later in the game.
It's easy to blame individuals but as a team we were way too open which was magnified further with the changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem is you are basing all that on hindsight. If Klopp did do that and didn't bring on Sturridge and Origi the post would of been why didn't we go for the victory. I think Swansea would of scored anyway. It was just a rubbish day at the office. Our defenders were all over the place yesterday there was no cohesion. When Matip comes in it will be much better. Matip is a defensive leader where Lovren is not. He is better as a number two CB who drops deep rather then steps forward to win tackles and headers etc.
It's a combination of system and personnel.
There are many fans out there who still rate Lovren very highly.
Personally, I think he's average. You're lucky to get 1-2 goals a season out of him, he loses quite a lot of aerial duels and always has mistakes in his locker.
We've never replaced Sami and we will continue to suffer until we do.
Secondly, the midfield is average. Henderson, Can and Wijn don't score many goals but they don't protect the defence either.
We need a Kante type player.
The problem could actually be the midfield. Teams seem to be cutting through us like a knife through butter. By the time they reach the defence, they're in full flow, and it's very difficult to defend against by then. We need to be slowing down the opposition in midfield. Much like they're doing with us.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 minutes ago
The problem could actually be the midfield. Teams seem to be cutting through us like a knife through butter. By the time they reach the defence, they're in full flow, and it's very difficult to defend against by then. We need to be slowing down the opposition in midfield. Much like they're doing with us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on.
Can is quite a poor player in all honestly. He showed promising signs at the start of the season but has regressed the last couple of months.
First touch is often very poor, very slow to move the ball in possession, passing almost always inaccurate and to top it off he's always knackered after 60 minutes.
Nobody on the bench to challenge him for his position either- Allen would be a good option to have right now to be honest.
comment by Chandler Von Matterhorn (U15746)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't think it's down to individual players or the need to recruit defenders. We play a very attacking system and press from the front which makes it easier for us to be got at. Also we lack a dedicated defensive midfielder. Basically our defenders are always in vulnerable situations when teams counter or get the ball wide. When we are on it with our pressing and attacking that's fine but when we aren't the defence is badly stretched.
Also throwing on forwards for midfielders makes us even more vulnerable at the back. Against Swansea when we got back to 2-2 We should have been calling Sturridge back to the bench, as we had already seen how vulnerable the defence was left on numerous occasions. In fact Lucas should have come on in my opinion. If that then got us to a good place in terms of helping the defence on their counters then we could have brought an attacker on later in the game.
It's easy to blame individuals but as a team we were way too open which was magnified further with the changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem is you are basing all that on hindsight. If Klopp did do that and didn't bring on Sturridge and Origi the post would of been why didn't we go for the victory. I think Swansea would of scored anyway. It was just a rubbish day at the office. Our defenders were all over the place yesterday there was no cohesion. When Matip comes in it will be much better. Matip is a defensive leader where Lovren is not. He is better as a number two CB who drops deep rather then steps forward to win tackles and headers etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think many would have been crying out for another striker after we'd already scored our second goal. If they then scored another, of course but that would have been more difficult if we had brought on Lucas for some help for the defence.
It's easy to say bring on a striker so we score but if we had brought on Lucas that may have made it easier for us to score as we could have taken control of the midfield. Too often this season we've played three players together in midfield who don't provide cover when we need it and don't provide much attacking threat when we need it. I think we'd be much better if we had a defensive midfielder next to Henderson and either Wijnaldum or Lallana ahead of them. Our midfield lacks balance as does our attack when Mane is out, which was notable last season when we lost Sterling and didn't replace. For me it's not down to individuals being poor but how the individual are used as part of the team.
When we get all back I don't see any reason why we won't hit form like we showed earlier in the season as there's more balance but we definitely need another summer transfer window to completely balance the side out and provide cover so we don't lose that when one or two are out.
For me it is very clear it is the personnel at the back. If we have a commanding defender at the back we would not give many chances away simple. The proof is the games we had with Matip at the back and conceding less goals and winning more games.
I agree it's the personnel.
Lovren wasn't Klopps signing, and while he has improved a lot from the shambles he was in his first season, he still isn't good enough to be starting every week and even less to be the supposed leader of the back line.
I think Klopp will sign another centre half to play with Matip and Lovren will move down the order. Klavan was always a short term signing and has done ok but clearly isn't the required quality on a consistent basis.
It's about game management as a team though and we still lack leadership. Hendo has had a good season but isn't a captain IMO. Obviously at 2-0 down we had to chase the game but then when it goes 2-2 you need to show a bit of composure and game management.
We remained too open and you can't just say that's the manager all the time. Players have to manage the game as much as the coaches do when the game is in play.
I hope we go all about for Van Dijk in the summer big bid and big wages. We might not get him but he looks top class and is a leader too. If we can't get him then we need someone of that stature alongside Matip.
I still happy with what we have done and are doing this season. You can't change every weakness in your team in one summer. It takes a few summers to build the squad you want and change the mentality.
We have seen lots of good things this season but in a few games the same weaknesses have been exposed and that will take a bit more time and a bit more squad movement in and out to sort.
For me it's essential we win something this season. That will improve the mentality of the group as so far we have a lot of players in the squad who have experienced nothing but near misses together.
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Liverpool's defence
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posted on 22/1/17
I don't think it's down to individual players or the need to recruit defenders. We play a very attacking system and press from the front which makes it easier for us to be got at. Also we lack a dedicated defensive midfielder. Basically our defenders are always in vulnerable situations when teams counter or get the ball wide. When we are on it with our pressing and attacking that's fine but when we aren't the defence is badly stretched.
Also throwing on forwards for midfielders makes us even more vulnerable at the back. Against Swansea when we got back to 2-2 We should have been calling Sturridge back to the bench, as we had already seen how vulnerable the defence was left on numerous occasions. In fact Lucas should have come on in my opinion. If that then got us to a good place in terms of helping the defence on their counters then we could have brought an attacker on later in the game.
It's easy to blame individuals but as a team we were way too open which was magnified further with the changes.
posted on 22/1/17
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't think it's down to individual players or the need to recruit defenders. We play a very attacking system and press from the front which makes it easier for us to be got at. Also we lack a dedicated defensive midfielder. Basically our defenders are always in vulnerable situations when teams counter or get the ball wide. When we are on it with our pressing and attacking that's fine but when we aren't the defence is badly stretched.
Also throwing on forwards for midfielders makes us even more vulnerable at the back. Against Swansea when we got back to 2-2 We should have been calling Sturridge back to the bench, as we had already seen how vulnerable the defence was left on numerous occasions. In fact Lucas should have come on in my opinion. If that then got us to a good place in terms of helping the defence on their counters then we could have brought an attacker on later in the game.
It's easy to blame individuals but as a team we were way too open which was magnified further with the changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem is you are basing all that on hindsight. If Klopp did do that and didn't bring on Sturridge and Origi the post would of been why didn't we go for the victory. I think Swansea would of scored anyway. It was just a rubbish day at the office. Our defenders were all over the place yesterday there was no cohesion. When Matip comes in it will be much better. Matip is a defensive leader where Lovren is not. He is better as a number two CB who drops deep rather then steps forward to win tackles and headers etc.
posted on 22/1/17
It's a combination of system and personnel.
There are many fans out there who still rate Lovren very highly.
Personally, I think he's average. You're lucky to get 1-2 goals a season out of him, he loses quite a lot of aerial duels and always has mistakes in his locker.
We've never replaced Sami and we will continue to suffer until we do.
Secondly, the midfield is average. Henderson, Can and Wijn don't score many goals but they don't protect the defence either.
We need a Kante type player.
posted on 22/1/17
The problem could actually be the midfield. Teams seem to be cutting through us like a knife through butter. By the time they reach the defence, they're in full flow, and it's very difficult to defend against by then. We need to be slowing down the opposition in midfield. Much like they're doing with us.
posted on 22/1/17
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 3 minutes ago
The problem could actually be the midfield. Teams seem to be cutting through us like a knife through butter. By the time they reach the defence, they're in full flow, and it's very difficult to defend against by then. We need to be slowing down the opposition in midfield. Much like they're doing with us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on.
posted on 22/1/17
Can is quite a poor player in all honestly. He showed promising signs at the start of the season but has regressed the last couple of months.
First touch is often very poor, very slow to move the ball in possession, passing almost always inaccurate and to top it off he's always knackered after 60 minutes.
Nobody on the bench to challenge him for his position either- Allen would be a good option to have right now to be honest.
posted on 22/1/17
comment by Chandler Von Matterhorn (U15746)
posted 1 hour ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't think it's down to individual players or the need to recruit defenders. We play a very attacking system and press from the front which makes it easier for us to be got at. Also we lack a dedicated defensive midfielder. Basically our defenders are always in vulnerable situations when teams counter or get the ball wide. When we are on it with our pressing and attacking that's fine but when we aren't the defence is badly stretched.
Also throwing on forwards for midfielders makes us even more vulnerable at the back. Against Swansea when we got back to 2-2 We should have been calling Sturridge back to the bench, as we had already seen how vulnerable the defence was left on numerous occasions. In fact Lucas should have come on in my opinion. If that then got us to a good place in terms of helping the defence on their counters then we could have brought an attacker on later in the game.
It's easy to blame individuals but as a team we were way too open which was magnified further with the changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem is you are basing all that on hindsight. If Klopp did do that and didn't bring on Sturridge and Origi the post would of been why didn't we go for the victory. I think Swansea would of scored anyway. It was just a rubbish day at the office. Our defenders were all over the place yesterday there was no cohesion. When Matip comes in it will be much better. Matip is a defensive leader where Lovren is not. He is better as a number two CB who drops deep rather then steps forward to win tackles and headers etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think many would have been crying out for another striker after we'd already scored our second goal. If they then scored another, of course but that would have been more difficult if we had brought on Lucas for some help for the defence.
It's easy to say bring on a striker so we score but if we had brought on Lucas that may have made it easier for us to score as we could have taken control of the midfield. Too often this season we've played three players together in midfield who don't provide cover when we need it and don't provide much attacking threat when we need it. I think we'd be much better if we had a defensive midfielder next to Henderson and either Wijnaldum or Lallana ahead of them. Our midfield lacks balance as does our attack when Mane is out, which was notable last season when we lost Sterling and didn't replace. For me it's not down to individuals being poor but how the individual are used as part of the team.
When we get all back I don't see any reason why we won't hit form like we showed earlier in the season as there's more balance but we definitely need another summer transfer window to completely balance the side out and provide cover so we don't lose that when one or two are out.
posted on 22/1/17
For me it is very clear it is the personnel at the back. If we have a commanding defender at the back we would not give many chances away simple. The proof is the games we had with Matip at the back and conceding less goals and winning more games.
posted on 22/1/17
I agree it's the personnel.
Lovren wasn't Klopps signing, and while he has improved a lot from the shambles he was in his first season, he still isn't good enough to be starting every week and even less to be the supposed leader of the back line.
I think Klopp will sign another centre half to play with Matip and Lovren will move down the order. Klavan was always a short term signing and has done ok but clearly isn't the required quality on a consistent basis.
It's about game management as a team though and we still lack leadership. Hendo has had a good season but isn't a captain IMO. Obviously at 2-0 down we had to chase the game but then when it goes 2-2 you need to show a bit of composure and game management.
We remained too open and you can't just say that's the manager all the time. Players have to manage the game as much as the coaches do when the game is in play.
I hope we go all about for Van Dijk in the summer big bid and big wages. We might not get him but he looks top class and is a leader too. If we can't get him then we need someone of that stature alongside Matip.
I still happy with what we have done and are doing this season. You can't change every weakness in your team in one summer. It takes a few summers to build the squad you want and change the mentality.
We have seen lots of good things this season but in a few games the same weaknesses have been exposed and that will take a bit more time and a bit more squad movement in and out to sort.
For me it's essential we win something this season. That will improve the mentality of the group as so far we have a lot of players in the squad who have experienced nothing but near misses together.
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