What about players who are probably as talented as the best of them but maybe don't get the recognition? Imo due to having quieter personalities? I'm talking Romario, Rivaldo, Batistuta
comment by Kunta Kinte Kante Conte (U1641)
posted 59 seconds ago
Of his 82 goals in England 12 came against the farmers of Norwich
---------
Go on YouTube and find a compilation of all his goals against Norwich, it's like a goal of the season highlight reel, a collection of excellent goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but my point still stands, that in the PL he was incredibly prolific against some really sh!t teams - 5 of the top 9 teams he scored the most against are no longer in the PL, and one of the others is Sunderland - and not that prolific at all against the really big teams (7 goals in 3.5 seasons against the big 4).
But I would still admit two things: 1) he offers each team he plays for a lot more than just goals and 2) he has hit a level over the last 3-4 seasons above that of aguero.
But my point was simply that you can have a meaningful debate about which of the two is better, whereas current received wisdom would suggest that there is no debate to be had at all.
Most fans tend to overrate their own players (both past and present).
One player I thought was overrated was Casillas. Good keeper, but I never really saw him up there with the very best even though he is often placed among them.
comment by Kunta Kinte Kante Conte (U1641)
posted 3 minutes ago
What about players who are probably as talented as the best of them but maybe don't get the recognition? Imo due to having quieter personalities? I'm talking Romario, Rivaldo, Batistuta
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be a good thread, go make it yourself best bud
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 10 seconds ago
Most fans tend to overrate their own players (both past and present).
One player I thought was overrated was Casillas. Good keeper, but I never really saw him up there with the very best even though he is often placed among them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely agree about Casillas, he constantly parried or punched the ball rather than taking pressure of his defence and I think he benefited from from the teams he was in, Real and Spain were very rarely "under the cosh" and needed a Schmeichel v Newcastle/Arsenal type performance.
He made some great saves but don't think he saved Madrid 10 points a season, for example, like the very best 'keepers do. I wouldn't have swapped him from VDS or DDG at United tbh.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 10 minutes ago
Baggio was playing in Serie A with notoriously tight defences. He was also an attacking midfielder/no.10 rather than a striker and at the time there was only 32 games in a season. He still scored at a rate of a goal every 2.2 games, but I wouldn't be judging his input solely on goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on the tougher defences but goals were still being scored, there was always someone out scoring him.
I do take the point on him a number 10 as well. As I said, this isn't about him being a bad footballer (very clearly wasn't) just a reflection on whether he was amongst the very best which was his reputation at the time. In my opinion there were better players.
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 3 minutes ago
Colin Hendry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still haven't forgiven you for mentioning Sir Sherwood.
Baggio's big game record was beyond appalling. Was like playing with 10 men.
Cantona was not the best player in the world, but what he did do was lift the other players around him and thats why he will go down as a legend at the club.
He had 5 seasons at Utd and Utd won the league 4 times during that spell, the only time they didnt win was when Cantona was banned, says a lot about what he brought to the club.
Baggio's big game record was beyond appalling. Was like playing with 10 men.
---------
unfortunately for you no current spurs player can claim to have ever played in a big game ever
Shearer - Great goalscorer but I wouldn't even have him in my top 3 fillet-o-fish endorsing celebrities.
Alan Hansen - Great defender but those free signed shin pads I got with my Bull Boys shoes were hugely overrated.
Raul is a cracking shout, never really impressed but always nicking the odd goal.
Beckham? Didn't he come in 2nd or 3rd one year in the Balloon Door?
Gattuso. For a guy who's very tough, seems like all he does is clatter people and pick up bookings every game.
Over to the US of A, think we overrate Landon Donovan quite a bit. Plays against inferior opponents all the time and we think he's the greatest American footballer to ever lived. I'd take Dempsey over him any day of the week and no, it's not because we are Texans.
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 8 minutes ago
Baggio's big game record was beyond appalling. Was like playing with 10 men.
---------
unfortunately for you no current spurs player can claim to have ever played in a big game ever
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your an odd bloke and I am sorry if I have seeemed to upset you. Please don't take it out on anyone when you get home
Anderson
Lampard
Rooney
Suttons sub keeper
All overate
comment by Dunc (U11713)
posted 6 minutes ago
Cantona was not the best player in the world, but what he did do was lift the other players around him and thats why he will go down as a legend at the club.
He had 5 seasons at Utd and Utd won the league 4 times during that spell, the only time they didnt win was when Cantona was banned, says a lot about what he brought to the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have absolutely no doubt he's a Utd legend for the reasons you've given. Sometimes a player fits a club and he was the right player at the right time for Utd.
Legend of the game though (which was the OP)? That's the bit I'd argue. He's certainly not a legend in French eyes I'm told, although supporting England over your home country at tournament will probably do that!
His career was in no way consistently good and he had to be talked out of retirement to come to England because he'd burned all his bridges in France.
Talent-wise, he's not really up there with the true legends of the game. I'd argue he's probably not even in a Utd top 5 ever (ability wise) but you have had some amazing players in fairness.
Your an odd bloke and I am sorry if I have seeemed to upset you. Please don't take it out on anyone when you get home
--------
struggling to think any big games
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mike will you feck off
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your an odd bloke and I am sorry if I have seeemed to upset you. Please don't take it out on anyone when you get home
--------
struggling to think any big games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Giant Jenga? Twister?
His career was in no way consistently good
_________________
Really? he won 2 titles with Marseille then went to Leeds and won the title there. Then he went to United and won back to back titles there...and he would have had 5 in a row at United (7 in a row in total) had he not been banned in '95.
Club[edit]
Marseille
Division 1 (2): 1988–89, 1990–91
Montpellier
Coupe de France: 1989–90
Leeds United
First Division: 1991–92
Charity Shield: 1992
Manchester United
Premier League (4): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97
FA Cup (2): 1993–94, 1995–96
Charity Shield (3): 1993, 1994, 1996
How is that not a consistent career? How many players have won four consecutive league titles at 3 different clubs?
How many players win 7 league titles in their career?
How many players win the league and FA Cup double - twice?
Ginola dumped by France in 95. 6 goals in 58 for the black and white bottlers.
13 goals in 100 for Sours.
POTY my arrse
Sign in if you want to comment
Overrated 'Legends'
Page 6 of 14
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posted on 21/2/17
What about players who are probably as talented as the best of them but maybe don't get the recognition? Imo due to having quieter personalities? I'm talking Romario, Rivaldo, Batistuta
posted on 21/2/17
comment by Kunta Kinte Kante Conte (U1641)
posted 59 seconds ago
Of his 82 goals in England 12 came against the farmers of Norwich
---------
Go on YouTube and find a compilation of all his goals against Norwich, it's like a goal of the season highlight reel, a collection of excellent goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but my point still stands, that in the PL he was incredibly prolific against some really sh!t teams - 5 of the top 9 teams he scored the most against are no longer in the PL, and one of the others is Sunderland - and not that prolific at all against the really big teams (7 goals in 3.5 seasons against the big 4).
But I would still admit two things: 1) he offers each team he plays for a lot more than just goals and 2) he has hit a level over the last 3-4 seasons above that of aguero.
But my point was simply that you can have a meaningful debate about which of the two is better, whereas current received wisdom would suggest that there is no debate to be had at all.
posted on 21/2/17
Most fans tend to overrate their own players (both past and present).
One player I thought was overrated was Casillas. Good keeper, but I never really saw him up there with the very best even though he is often placed among them.
posted on 21/2/17
Sniper
posted on 21/2/17
comment by Kunta Kinte Kante Conte (U1641)
posted 3 minutes ago
What about players who are probably as talented as the best of them but maybe don't get the recognition? Imo due to having quieter personalities? I'm talking Romario, Rivaldo, Batistuta
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be a good thread, go make it yourself best bud
posted on 21/2/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 10 seconds ago
Most fans tend to overrate their own players (both past and present).
One player I thought was overrated was Casillas. Good keeper, but I never really saw him up there with the very best even though he is often placed among them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely agree about Casillas, he constantly parried or punched the ball rather than taking pressure of his defence and I think he benefited from from the teams he was in, Real and Spain were very rarely "under the cosh" and needed a Schmeichel v Newcastle/Arsenal type performance.
He made some great saves but don't think he saved Madrid 10 points a season, for example, like the very best 'keepers do. I wouldn't have swapped him from VDS or DDG at United tbh.
posted on 21/2/17
Colin Hendry.
posted on 21/2/17
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 10 minutes ago
Baggio was playing in Serie A with notoriously tight defences. He was also an attacking midfielder/no.10 rather than a striker and at the time there was only 32 games in a season. He still scored at a rate of a goal every 2.2 games, but I wouldn't be judging his input solely on goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on the tougher defences but goals were still being scored, there was always someone out scoring him.
I do take the point on him a number 10 as well. As I said, this isn't about him being a bad footballer (very clearly wasn't) just a reflection on whether he was amongst the very best which was his reputation at the time. In my opinion there were better players.
posted on 21/2/17
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 3 minutes ago
Colin Hendry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still haven't forgiven you for mentioning Sir Sherwood.
posted on 21/2/17
Baggio's big game record was beyond appalling. Was like playing with 10 men.
posted on 21/2/17
Cantona was not the best player in the world, but what he did do was lift the other players around him and thats why he will go down as a legend at the club.
He had 5 seasons at Utd and Utd won the league 4 times during that spell, the only time they didnt win was when Cantona was banned, says a lot about what he brought to the club.
posted on 21/2/17
Football player.
posted on 21/2/17
Baggio's big game record was beyond appalling. Was like playing with 10 men.
---------
unfortunately for you no current spurs player can claim to have ever played in a big game ever
posted on 21/2/17
Shearer - Great goalscorer but I wouldn't even have him in my top 3 fillet-o-fish endorsing celebrities.
Alan Hansen - Great defender but those free signed shin pads I got with my Bull Boys shoes were hugely overrated.
posted on 21/2/17
Raul is a cracking shout, never really impressed but always nicking the odd goal.
posted on 21/2/17
Beckham? Didn't he come in 2nd or 3rd one year in the Balloon Door?
Gattuso. For a guy who's very tough, seems like all he does is clatter people and pick up bookings every game.
Over to the US of A, think we overrate Landon Donovan quite a bit. Plays against inferior opponents all the time and we think he's the greatest American footballer to ever lived. I'd take Dempsey over him any day of the week and no, it's not because we are Texans.
posted on 21/2/17
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 8 minutes ago
Baggio's big game record was beyond appalling. Was like playing with 10 men.
---------
unfortunately for you no current spurs player can claim to have ever played in a big game ever
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your an odd bloke and I am sorry if I have seeemed to upset you. Please don't take it out on anyone when you get home
posted on 21/2/17
Anderson
Lampard
Rooney
Suttons sub keeper
All overate
posted on 21/2/17
comment by Dunc (U11713)
posted 6 minutes ago
Cantona was not the best player in the world, but what he did do was lift the other players around him and thats why he will go down as a legend at the club.
He had 5 seasons at Utd and Utd won the league 4 times during that spell, the only time they didnt win was when Cantona was banned, says a lot about what he brought to the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have absolutely no doubt he's a Utd legend for the reasons you've given. Sometimes a player fits a club and he was the right player at the right time for Utd.
Legend of the game though (which was the OP)? That's the bit I'd argue. He's certainly not a legend in French eyes I'm told, although supporting England over your home country at tournament will probably do that!
His career was in no way consistently good and he had to be talked out of retirement to come to England because he'd burned all his bridges in France.
Talent-wise, he's not really up there with the true legends of the game. I'd argue he's probably not even in a Utd top 5 ever (ability wise) but you have had some amazing players in fairness.
posted on 21/2/17
Mike will you feck off
posted on 21/2/17
Your an odd bloke and I am sorry if I have seeemed to upset you. Please don't take it out on anyone when you get home
--------
struggling to think any big games
posted on 21/2/17
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 2 minutes ago
Mike will you feck off
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What?
posted on 21/2/17
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 2 minutes ago
Your an odd bloke and I am sorry if I have seeemed to upset you. Please don't take it out on anyone when you get home
--------
struggling to think any big games
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Giant Jenga? Twister?
posted on 21/2/17
His career was in no way consistently good
_________________
Really? he won 2 titles with Marseille then went to Leeds and won the title there. Then he went to United and won back to back titles there...and he would have had 5 in a row at United (7 in a row in total) had he not been banned in '95.
Club[edit]
Marseille
Division 1 (2): 1988–89, 1990–91
Montpellier
Coupe de France: 1989–90
Leeds United
First Division: 1991–92
Charity Shield: 1992
Manchester United
Premier League (4): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97
FA Cup (2): 1993–94, 1995–96
Charity Shield (3): 1993, 1994, 1996
How is that not a consistent career? How many players have won four consecutive league titles at 3 different clubs?
How many players win 7 league titles in their career?
How many players win the league and FA Cup double - twice?
posted on 21/2/17
Ginola dumped by France in 95. 6 goals in 58 for the black and white bottlers.
13 goals in 100 for Sours.
POTY my arrse
Page 6 of 14
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