I am sorry,but when the only safety is down and I am in a high rise, I am going to the stairs regardless of what any pen pusher says!!
Pen Pushers caused this tradegy!
Reality is that tower blocks fires are not that uncommon but they never turn into a towering inferno like this one.
The biggest crime here, if true, is the fact that they cut cost to non fire retardant cladding due to a few quid a sheet not to mention other cost cutting.
As for the number of dead, it will be around 70-80 people excluding a likely few illegal immigrants that possibly could have been there, no idea why there is this ridiculous social media myth suggesting someone is fudging numbers, why the feck would they, it is catastrophic either way.
You also look at the fire in Dubai, were I am sure no expense is spared, even if you need to train people who live in the building to organize and get people safely out, it needs done!
Or we seriously need to install sprinkler systems in all U.K. Higrises or knock them down!!
I think we have to be careful where blame is pointed.
Given the gravity, speed and severity of the fire I'm not convinced that extra millions and even extra fireman could have done any more to prevent this.
It's ok saying in hindsight ahhh but services were cut by government ah if only we had more brave men and woman in our service's.
Incidents happen this was either foul play or a genuine error by someone who'll live with this regret.
Yes a national enquiry must happen but I'm not convinced any good will come from it too many complexities for me.
England is sinking imo? It can't cope. Now we have Muslims jumping for joy at the site of a white terrorist. They are lapping this up all the while a Imam gives a very clever speach. I fear this is the beginning of the end. I hate all this is happening but a legacy of monumental mismanagement by previous governments have led us to the now.
We can't all get along, cultures are vast, population's are growing and inner land becoming fuller.competing for jobs and health care appointments all the while we are told to sit quiet and accept, respect, and love one another. Who wrote this fairytale? Time this country got tough. Kick the back sides of the scrounging and bad, kick out the bad and say no more to religious funding and foreign aid to India and Pakistan.
Police having to request that those that escaped come forward as though a sub letting amnesty is in place.
120 flats,120 people registered as tenant/householder who will know who else lives with them.
It is not difficult to get the list of registered tenants but impossible to know the real figure of how many died.
The numbers could well be higher.
There are already attempts to shift the blame:
- on to the ttenants
- on to EU regulations
These are but two.
What we do know that cost cuttings did lead to the use of nonfire resistant cladding.
We also know that the primary focus of the 'regeneration' of the building was to do with how it looks.
We also know tenants complained and then those who did complained were ignored or attacked by the housing management and local council.
The council themselves have mentioned austerity as a reason why they had to spend within a budget.
We've also read plenty of reports that the previous high rise fire in 2009 report was sat on my ministers instead of putting their recommendations into practise due to them not wanting to add to red tapes for business.
Sadly, no one will be blame as there are plenty of it to go around. There might be a fall guy, such as the leader of the local council, but that's the best you can expect. Hopefully the enquiry or inquest into this forces the government to put people's lives before profit.
It's a crime against the poor, clad it in sub-standard material to make it look pretty for the rich who have to look at it from their multi-million £ homes. Safety sacrifices for aesthetic.
Successive governments have forced councils and housing associations to make surpluses to fund the house building that central government should be funding, whilst at the same time forcing cuts onto them. Forcing them to make life threatening decisions, its successive governments that have blood onntheur hands.
I dont think there is any conspiracy of silence, nor do I doubt the numbers of dead will tragically rise to over 100. Government has a responsibility to manage the situation and by releasing the numbers steadily they are preparing us, the population, incrementally for the worst.
How do you get 40+ people in one flat? That can't be right.
I'm not overly concerned about the the differing reports of who has perished (sounds bad but I can't word it right) as I can understand that they need to identify people and inform their relatives first but.....
Make no mistake people should be going to jail for this.
FOUR separate ministers were warned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789
================================
"After further correspondence, Liberal Democrat MP Steven Williams - who was then a minister in the department - replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."
The group replied to say they "were at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence, which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent".
===============================
This fvcker needs to be doing some bird for a start.
So you're just making up a number with nothing to back it up and then deciding where the blame lies all before any enquiry has been carried out?
What a pointless article.
It should be an inquest not an enquiry. Cover up on the way followed by riots.
Forgive me, poor choice of words. Point still stands. What makes you think riots will follow?
Because the people have had enough. The fact the have asked for an enquiry rather than inquest speaks volumes. There were FOUR ministers warned about this and I'm 95% sure no-one will be jailed. Cue riots.
Can't see rioting as an answer to anything, more innocents would suffer as a result. Really hope you're wrong on that.
Me too but I have zero confidence that they will find accountability and people go to jail as they should. Social disobedience is all that is left.
I will never understand the mentality of " I'm not happy so I'm going to riot and destroy people's livelihood ".
Peaceful protests and demonstrations is a much better alternative.
Don't work though do they. One million people marched against the war for example. Doctors, teachers, firemen all have marched and gond on strike. Now people are dying.
Time to smash this sh!thole up and MAKE them listen.
No, but it is better than smashing the place up. You're not suggesting that a riot would sort things out are you?
Why do you think they are slow at releasing the numbers of people that perished
They don't want the magnitude of the tragedy to hit.
Yes should be an inquest undoubtedly those people died due to gross negligence, as it's a private company that is managing the building, could be corporate manslaughter.
They've been let down, no one gave a crap because they were the poorer of society.
Curses be on those that allowed this to happen, think of the traumatised service personnel that had to put out the fire and were faced by an impossible task, visualising how people died, and even seeing them up close burned to death.
Powers that be turning up at the shell of the building saying "oh what a tragedy" as nauseum. Feck that, get some protective gear on and go inside and have a look if you're really interested.
Don't want the magnitude to hit?!?!?
I think it hit fairly hard, a towering inferno captures the attention quickly.
Comical that anyone would think there is a numbers cover up, there absolutely is no numbers cover up
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posted on 20/6/17
I am sorry,but when the only safety is down and I am in a high rise, I am going to the stairs regardless of what any pen pusher says!!
Pen Pushers caused this tradegy!
posted on 20/6/17
Reality is that tower blocks fires are not that uncommon but they never turn into a towering inferno like this one.
The biggest crime here, if true, is the fact that they cut cost to non fire retardant cladding due to a few quid a sheet not to mention other cost cutting.
As for the number of dead, it will be around 70-80 people excluding a likely few illegal immigrants that possibly could have been there, no idea why there is this ridiculous social media myth suggesting someone is fudging numbers, why the feck would they, it is catastrophic either way.
posted on 20/6/17
You also look at the fire in Dubai, were I am sure no expense is spared, even if you need to train people who live in the building to organize and get people safely out, it needs done!
posted on 20/6/17
Or we seriously need to install sprinkler systems in all U.K. Higrises or knock them down!!
posted on 20/6/17
I think we have to be careful where blame is pointed.
Given the gravity, speed and severity of the fire I'm not convinced that extra millions and even extra fireman could have done any more to prevent this.
It's ok saying in hindsight ahhh but services were cut by government ah if only we had more brave men and woman in our service's.
Incidents happen this was either foul play or a genuine error by someone who'll live with this regret.
Yes a national enquiry must happen but I'm not convinced any good will come from it too many complexities for me.
England is sinking imo? It can't cope. Now we have Muslims jumping for joy at the site of a white terrorist. They are lapping this up all the while a Imam gives a very clever speach. I fear this is the beginning of the end. I hate all this is happening but a legacy of monumental mismanagement by previous governments have led us to the now.
We can't all get along, cultures are vast, population's are growing and inner land becoming fuller.competing for jobs and health care appointments all the while we are told to sit quiet and accept, respect, and love one another. Who wrote this fairytale? Time this country got tough. Kick the back sides of the scrounging and bad, kick out the bad and say no more to religious funding and foreign aid to India and Pakistan.
posted on 20/6/17
Police having to request that those that escaped come forward as though a sub letting amnesty is in place.
120 flats,120 people registered as tenant/householder who will know who else lives with them.
It is not difficult to get the list of registered tenants but impossible to know the real figure of how many died.
posted on 20/6/17
The numbers could well be higher.
There are already attempts to shift the blame:
- on to the ttenants
- on to EU regulations
These are but two.
What we do know that cost cuttings did lead to the use of nonfire resistant cladding.
We also know that the primary focus of the 'regeneration' of the building was to do with how it looks.
We also know tenants complained and then those who did complained were ignored or attacked by the housing management and local council.
The council themselves have mentioned austerity as a reason why they had to spend within a budget.
We've also read plenty of reports that the previous high rise fire in 2009 report was sat on my ministers instead of putting their recommendations into practise due to them not wanting to add to red tapes for business.
Sadly, no one will be blame as there are plenty of it to go around. There might be a fall guy, such as the leader of the local council, but that's the best you can expect. Hopefully the enquiry or inquest into this forces the government to put people's lives before profit.
posted on 20/6/17
It's a crime against the poor, clad it in sub-standard material to make it look pretty for the rich who have to look at it from their multi-million £ homes. Safety sacrifices for aesthetic.
Successive governments have forced councils and housing associations to make surpluses to fund the house building that central government should be funding, whilst at the same time forcing cuts onto them. Forcing them to make life threatening decisions, its successive governments that have blood onntheur hands.
I dont think there is any conspiracy of silence, nor do I doubt the numbers of dead will tragically rise to over 100. Government has a responsibility to manage the situation and by releasing the numbers steadily they are preparing us, the population, incrementally for the worst.
posted on 20/6/17
How do you get 40+ people in one flat? That can't be right.
posted on 20/6/17
I'm not overly concerned about the the differing reports of who has perished (sounds bad but I can't word it right) as I can understand that they need to identify people and inform their relatives first but.....
Make no mistake people should be going to jail for this.
FOUR separate ministers were warned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789
================================
"After further correspondence, Liberal Democrat MP Steven Williams - who was then a minister in the department - replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."
The group replied to say they "were at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence, which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent".
===============================
This fvcker needs to be doing some bird for a start.
posted on 20/6/17
So you're just making up a number with nothing to back it up and then deciding where the blame lies all before any enquiry has been carried out?
What a pointless article.
posted on 20/6/17
It should be an inquest not an enquiry. Cover up on the way followed by riots.
posted on 20/6/17
Forgive me, poor choice of words. Point still stands. What makes you think riots will follow?
posted on 20/6/17
Because the people have had enough. The fact the have asked for an enquiry rather than inquest speaks volumes. There were FOUR ministers warned about this and I'm 95% sure no-one will be jailed. Cue riots.
posted on 20/6/17
Can't see rioting as an answer to anything, more innocents would suffer as a result. Really hope you're wrong on that.
posted on 20/6/17
Me too but I have zero confidence that they will find accountability and people go to jail as they should. Social disobedience is all that is left.
posted on 20/6/17
I will never understand the mentality of " I'm not happy so I'm going to riot and destroy people's livelihood ".
Peaceful protests and demonstrations is a much better alternative.
posted on 20/6/17
Don't work though do they. One million people marched against the war for example. Doctors, teachers, firemen all have marched and gond on strike. Now people are dying.
Time to smash this sh!thole up and MAKE them listen.
posted on 20/6/17
No, but it is better than smashing the place up. You're not suggesting that a riot would sort things out are you?
posted on 25/6/17
Why do you think they are slow at releasing the numbers of people that perished
They don't want the magnitude of the tragedy to hit.
Yes should be an inquest undoubtedly those people died due to gross negligence, as it's a private company that is managing the building, could be corporate manslaughter.
They've been let down, no one gave a crap because they were the poorer of society.
Curses be on those that allowed this to happen, think of the traumatised service personnel that had to put out the fire and were faced by an impossible task, visualising how people died, and even seeing them up close burned to death.
Powers that be turning up at the shell of the building saying "oh what a tragedy" as nauseum. Feck that, get some protective gear on and go inside and have a look if you're really interested.
posted on 25/6/17
Don't want the magnitude to hit?!?!?
I think it hit fairly hard, a towering inferno captures the attention quickly.
Comical that anyone would think there is a numbers cover up, there absolutely is no numbers cover up
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