Sup Show,
Only saw the England and Wales matches myself.
England were pretty poor by the high standards we have set, we will need to be much better this weekend. Resigned myself to Hartley being captain and first choice to the WC now, which is more than harsh on George.
Wales Aus was quite predictable, was an enjoyable game to watch though.
As for the other results, Scotland struggling past Samoa was a surprise. Ireland absolutely hammering the Boks was a great result (they do seem to like playing SA these days). Georgia had a good result against Canada (will be interested to see how they fare in Wales). NZ easily beat France as expected.
I'm good Demus. Yourself?
I'm at Twickers on Saturday so I might manage to avoid the annihilation at Murrayfield. I'm afraid, very afraid.
Looking forward to a good game. Your boys cant be as dire as they were last Saturday. If they are, they could well lose that one. I expect a big step-up and a comfortable England win.
I'm good thanks, I'm also at HQ on Saturday. Really looking forward to it, I think we will step it up quite a bit and come away with a win.
Oh, fancy meeting up for a beer? We're planning to be in the Admiral Nelson in Whitton before the game.
Love to meet you and say G'day.
Thought you might be an Aussie for the day ha, I'm not sure what we are doing yet but I'll let you know if I can meet up
Drop me an email to ewen@live.co.uk to exchange details. Don't panic, that's one I use if I suspect I'm going to get junk. I'll fish it out of there and get back to you via the proper one.
Good win for us today, amazingly flattering score line, actually thought the Aussies were the better side.
Quite right Neo, but there will be people who look only at the scoreboard and convince themselves that the inevitable end game is winging the world cup. That will not happen.
We have a shot at it I think, NZ should obviously be favourites but as this year has shown they can be beaten. It's a shame their union has been so greedy and therefore avoided playing us because I'm sure they would have been great games. England clear second favourites and Ireland clear 3rd imo.
The tri-nations are not what they were.
I can see why you see it that way. I just think you are deluded in that thought. OK, the Blacks have lost to Oz, but we are 2 years out from the world cup. The last 2 tournaments show us that they use the between time very well. They have had mid cycle dips before. I honestly don't see England improving to the level required. That match on Saturday could very easily have been very different than it was after 60 minutes. Small margins, and no little luck made it otherwise. Add to that a final flurry (Danny Care????) and better fitness levels which gave you the edge. The fitness thing could just have been from the Aussies effort in keeping you out for a quarter of the game while a man down.
Not scoring during either of the cards was not good.
Just an honest view from over the fence.
Deluded that England are second favourites?
Deluded that Ireland are 3rd?
That NZ are very beatable?
I don't base it off one game, which wasn't nearly as bad as you are implying. It's because we are 21 from 22, 6-0 against tri nations since the WC. Small margins decide test matches mate, you don't have the record we have through luck. I will say we have a really good chance at another GS (considering we have Ireland at home).
Ireland can also stake a claim to being in with a shot of the WC. Notable wins against the #1 and #2 ranked sides, consistent performances, 4-3 against tri-nations since WC. They can beat anyone.
NZ haven't just lost to Australia, they were beat by the Lions (on their own patch) and Ireland (in a neutral venue) since the WC. I don't dispute that they are the best side in the world, but we can both beat them.
I would throw Australia in as dark horses too as they can raise their game from time to time.
Much can change in two years but this opinion, today, is not deluded.
Just an honestly held opinion mate. Time will tell if its right or wrong.
Of course you will be odds on for the Grand Slam. That is for many reasons, including the fact that the starter/finisher nonsense stacks things in your favour like no other northern side. But that's a different debate around how you actually improve the game as a spectacle.
On Saturday I took someone to a rugby match for his very first time. Do you really think he was impressed, especially with the first half, as a spectacle.
Your honest opinion is that we have no chance at all of lifting the WC?
Is that last comment aimed at England? Conditions dictated the kickfest that it was unfortunately.
On the GS starter/finisher thing, you're saying we are odds on because we have the best 23? Isn't that the whole point?
That's what I'm saying
Conditions weren't great, but even given that, England weren't very inspiring until the dying embers. His comment to me after an hour was that any excitement had come from Australia, and he was right. You huffed and puffed for an hour, couldn't make either of two yellow cards count, got the breaks with key decisions and blew them away when fresh faces counted.
And there was me thinking that rugby union was a 15 a side game. At least that's what I grew up with, silly me
But like I said, that's a whole other debate.
Let's just give NZ the trophy now then eh.
I know we could have played better but we did win with a 4-0try count. I'm not too disappointed with it to be fair.
They didn't have subs when you were growing up? You're old mate
I know I'm old, and therefore have the benefit of sage wisdom. When subs first came in, it required a doctor to confirm that a substitution was necessary.
We now have more than half the team replaced on a routine basis. Somewhere along the line things have got out of kilter.
One of my greatest rugby memories comes from a Wales match in 1972. The doctor said that a substitution could go ahead, but the Welsh management decided the match was so near its conclusion, Wales were winning comfortably in any case, the substitution was not necessary.
What they forgot was that this would have denied Derek Quinnell his Welsh debut. That was never going to happen. Coaches, doctors, administrators, innocent bystanders were picked up and hurled out of the way as Big Derek entered the fray for the final minute.
Years later I was at a dinner he was speaking at and was asked why, with so many subsequent achievments, he was so desperate to play for a minute.
"At that stage I didn't feckin know if I was ever going to get another chance. I could have broken a leg the following week and never played again. Them basturts weren't going to stop me from being able to say I was a Welsh international".
Being a sub meant something back then.
Let's just give NZ the trophy now then eh.
_______________________________________
After last Saturday, I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Getting a bit carried away now ain't ya, it wasn't too long ago (3 tests I think) that you were humbled by the mighty Fiji.
Remind me, when was the last time you beat NZ?
Or even the no hopers England?
That's all in the past. It's the future that matters.
Of course I'm getting carried away, but it was you who started it.
Err, you said we had no chance of lifting the WC, I disagreed.
You do have a shot, significantly less of a shot than your English overlords, but a shot nonetheless.
England and Ireland rule the NH, prove me wrong in Feb/Mar and I will change my mind
Demus
I wish salmon fishing 🎣 was this easy. I'd dine like a king every night.
Of course you will will the 6N. Our course we will have to play out of our skins to even make the world cup QF, never mind anything else, such is the paucity of our strength in depth. You probably have 3 players in every position who would walk into most of our starting XV positions.
That's just the way it is these days. Be grateful that you have these resources, but expect a good bit of ribaldry along the way. That is the Englishman's lot, especially from us Celts.
I'm not as certain as you we will win the 6N, but as I'm going to get to at least 3 of the games I really hope so!
Wouldn't expect any less from you mate
How do you feel about the fact the Scottish union are openly admitting they have three full time employees whose sole job is to search the English league for English players to recruit?
Either through family ties or bankrolling residency.
Sign in if you want to comment
Autumn Internationals
Page 1 of 3
posted on 14/11/17
Sup Show,
Only saw the England and Wales matches myself.
England were pretty poor by the high standards we have set, we will need to be much better this weekend. Resigned myself to Hartley being captain and first choice to the WC now, which is more than harsh on George.
Wales Aus was quite predictable, was an enjoyable game to watch though.
As for the other results, Scotland struggling past Samoa was a surprise. Ireland absolutely hammering the Boks was a great result (they do seem to like playing SA these days). Georgia had a good result against Canada (will be interested to see how they fare in Wales). NZ easily beat France as expected.
posted on 14/11/17
I'm good Demus. Yourself?
I'm at Twickers on Saturday so I might manage to avoid the annihilation at Murrayfield. I'm afraid, very afraid.
Looking forward to a good game. Your boys cant be as dire as they were last Saturday. If they are, they could well lose that one. I expect a big step-up and a comfortable England win.
posted on 14/11/17
I'm good thanks, I'm also at HQ on Saturday. Really looking forward to it, I think we will step it up quite a bit and come away with a win.
posted on 14/11/17
Oh, fancy meeting up for a beer? We're planning to be in the Admiral Nelson in Whitton before the game.
Love to meet you and say G'day.
posted on 15/11/17
Thought you might be an Aussie for the day ha, I'm not sure what we are doing yet but I'll let you know if I can meet up
posted on 15/11/17
Drop me an email to ewen@live.co.uk to exchange details. Don't panic, that's one I use if I suspect I'm going to get junk. I'll fish it out of there and get back to you via the proper one.
posted on 16/11/17
Sent one, has 82 in it
posted on 17/11/17
Got it. Responded.
posted on 18/11/17
Good win for us today, amazingly flattering score line, actually thought the Aussies were the better side.
posted on 19/11/17
Quite right Neo, but there will be people who look only at the scoreboard and convince themselves that the inevitable end game is winging the world cup. That will not happen.
posted on 20/11/17
We have a shot at it I think, NZ should obviously be favourites but as this year has shown they can be beaten. It's a shame their union has been so greedy and therefore avoided playing us because I'm sure they would have been great games. England clear second favourites and Ireland clear 3rd imo.
The tri-nations are not what they were.
posted on 20/11/17
I can see why you see it that way. I just think you are deluded in that thought. OK, the Blacks have lost to Oz, but we are 2 years out from the world cup. The last 2 tournaments show us that they use the between time very well. They have had mid cycle dips before. I honestly don't see England improving to the level required. That match on Saturday could very easily have been very different than it was after 60 minutes. Small margins, and no little luck made it otherwise. Add to that a final flurry (Danny Care????) and better fitness levels which gave you the edge. The fitness thing could just have been from the Aussies effort in keeping you out for a quarter of the game while a man down.
Not scoring during either of the cards was not good.
Just an honest view from over the fence.
posted on 20/11/17
Deluded that England are second favourites?
Deluded that Ireland are 3rd?
That NZ are very beatable?
I don't base it off one game, which wasn't nearly as bad as you are implying. It's because we are 21 from 22, 6-0 against tri nations since the WC. Small margins decide test matches mate, you don't have the record we have through luck. I will say we have a really good chance at another GS (considering we have Ireland at home).
Ireland can also stake a claim to being in with a shot of the WC. Notable wins against the #1 and #2 ranked sides, consistent performances, 4-3 against tri-nations since WC. They can beat anyone.
NZ haven't just lost to Australia, they were beat by the Lions (on their own patch) and Ireland (in a neutral venue) since the WC. I don't dispute that they are the best side in the world, but we can both beat them.
I would throw Australia in as dark horses too as they can raise their game from time to time.
Much can change in two years but this opinion, today, is not deluded.
posted on 20/11/17
Just an honestly held opinion mate. Time will tell if its right or wrong.
Of course you will be odds on for the Grand Slam. That is for many reasons, including the fact that the starter/finisher nonsense stacks things in your favour like no other northern side. But that's a different debate around how you actually improve the game as a spectacle.
On Saturday I took someone to a rugby match for his very first time. Do you really think he was impressed, especially with the first half, as a spectacle.
posted on 21/11/17
Your honest opinion is that we have no chance at all of lifting the WC?
Is that last comment aimed at England? Conditions dictated the kickfest that it was unfortunately.
On the GS starter/finisher thing, you're saying we are odds on because we have the best 23? Isn't that the whole point?
posted on 21/11/17
That's what I'm saying
Conditions weren't great, but even given that, England weren't very inspiring until the dying embers. His comment to me after an hour was that any excitement had come from Australia, and he was right. You huffed and puffed for an hour, couldn't make either of two yellow cards count, got the breaks with key decisions and blew them away when fresh faces counted.
And there was me thinking that rugby union was a 15 a side game. At least that's what I grew up with, silly me
But like I said, that's a whole other debate.
posted on 21/11/17
Let's just give NZ the trophy now then eh.
I know we could have played better but we did win with a 4-0try count. I'm not too disappointed with it to be fair.
They didn't have subs when you were growing up? You're old mate
posted on 21/11/17
I know I'm old, and therefore have the benefit of sage wisdom. When subs first came in, it required a doctor to confirm that a substitution was necessary.
We now have more than half the team replaced on a routine basis. Somewhere along the line things have got out of kilter.
One of my greatest rugby memories comes from a Wales match in 1972. The doctor said that a substitution could go ahead, but the Welsh management decided the match was so near its conclusion, Wales were winning comfortably in any case, the substitution was not necessary.
What they forgot was that this would have denied Derek Quinnell his Welsh debut. That was never going to happen. Coaches, doctors, administrators, innocent bystanders were picked up and hurled out of the way as Big Derek entered the fray for the final minute.
Years later I was at a dinner he was speaking at and was asked why, with so many subsequent achievments, he was so desperate to play for a minute.
"At that stage I didn't feckin know if I was ever going to get another chance. I could have broken a leg the following week and never played again. Them basturts weren't going to stop me from being able to say I was a Welsh international".
Being a sub meant something back then.
posted on 21/11/17
Let's just give NZ the trophy now then eh.
_______________________________________
After last Saturday, I wouldn't be so sure about that.
posted on 21/11/17
Getting a bit carried away now ain't ya, it wasn't too long ago (3 tests I think) that you were humbled by the mighty Fiji.
Remind me, when was the last time you beat NZ?
Or even the no hopers England?
posted on 21/11/17
That's all in the past. It's the future that matters.
Of course I'm getting carried away, but it was you who started it.
posted on 21/11/17
Err, you said we had no chance of lifting the WC, I disagreed.
You do have a shot, significantly less of a shot than your English overlords, but a shot nonetheless.
England and Ireland rule the NH, prove me wrong in Feb/Mar and I will change my mind
posted on 21/11/17
Demus
I wish salmon fishing 🎣 was this easy. I'd dine like a king every night.
Of course you will will the 6N. Our course we will have to play out of our skins to even make the world cup QF, never mind anything else, such is the paucity of our strength in depth. You probably have 3 players in every position who would walk into most of our starting XV positions.
That's just the way it is these days. Be grateful that you have these resources, but expect a good bit of ribaldry along the way. That is the Englishman's lot, especially from us Celts.
posted on 22/11/17
I'm not as certain as you we will win the 6N, but as I'm going to get to at least 3 of the games I really hope so!
Wouldn't expect any less from you mate
posted on 22/11/17
How do you feel about the fact the Scottish union are openly admitting they have three full time employees whose sole job is to search the English league for English players to recruit?
Either through family ties or bankrolling residency.
Page 1 of 3