comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 7 minutes ago
Really? I would wager figo finished higher up in poty awards etc than pirlo. It's a good discussion to have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
POTY awards shouldn't be the basis for argument though? Considering instances like Giggs winning one; or Zidane undeservedly winning one in 1998.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 46 minutes ago
I think he is, longevity made people glorify him as a striker who was never as good as people want him to be. Was also pretty poor in the 06 WC.
I dunno much about the likes of Seedorf tbh; but Xavi easily comes top of the list. Keane & Vieira comfortably ahead of Scholes as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you have forgotten Zidane existed maybe.
Zidane > Xavi
There's much more to awards than saying such and such was the best in this or that year. I've already stated my position in earlier posts.
Firstly, I remarked on how much you consider the value or the position and role they played in their respective sides, and my opinion of the importance of the deep playmaking role.
See also another earlier comment on how criminally underacknowledged Pirlo was in Italy's World Cup triumph.
The Italian defensive stereotype provided the perfect platform to push Cannavaro's and Buffon's ticket, at the expense of relegating Pirlo to an ancillary figure.
If your memory serves you well enough though, you'll remember who it was who made things happen in that Italy team, who took the game by the scruff to bury Germany on home soil in the semis, or the man of the match in the final actually was.
Secondly, despite all my recognition for Figo, I am also fully aware as a Madrid fan of just how much lobbying went on to land him those awards right after we poached him off Barça.
That's not to say he might not have deserved the award at some point in his career, but imho he was an even better player for Barça than he ever was for us. And even there, most of the time he was only actually second best to Rivaldo (although I must add that there's no shame in that).
IOAG, as a die-hard RM & Spain fan I would be interested to see your reasoning as to why Xavi>Zidane as a player?
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 35 minutes ago
Find it hard to classify totti as a striker tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe, but you would class Sheringham as a striker as well.
Bit of a grey area I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheringham played as a striker much more than totti who dropped into an attacking midfielder much of his career
Zidane is probably the best player of my lifetime, well until ronaldo and messi came along.
Depends on who he played with. I think you can draw a lot of similarities with Totti and Sheringham. I think both kind of epitomise that Second Striker/False 9 type role.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
IOAG, as a die-hard RM & Spain fan I would be interested to see your reasoning as to why Xavi>Zidane as a player?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where have I said that?
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 11 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 13 minutes ago
Scholes is one of the best midfielders of the Premier League, no doubt about it.
That’s not to say, he was the best passer. I always admired his positioning and his simplicity with the ball. He also chipped in with some cracking goals.
As for passing, I’d say Alonso remains the best passer of the ball to have graced the PL. His vision was preposterous at times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re suggesting my praise of Alonso is only on the basis of me being a Liverpool fan then you’re mistaken.
Scholes was probably better in most other departments but for passing, I’d give Alonso the edge.
The guy did it in the 3 best leagues in the world.
Alonso's long ball was fabulous, but his short passing never really stood out. He'd be way down my list in that department. Xavi, Fabregas, Silva, Valerón, Iniesta, Busquets or Cazorla all superior to Alonso in that department to him without even looking outside of Spain.
Alonso was a disciplined footballer who made the most of his attributes, intelligence included, but he's one player who's been put on a pedestal above his station. Would not be at all surprised if he went on to be a top manager though.
I think we can put this to bed now.
KdB is the best passer of a football that the PL has ever seen,
Just checked the stats for the ones mentioned
Scholes 72% (albeit over a longer period)
Fabregas 77%
Alonso 83%
KDB 71%
So KDB has the lowest success rate of all of them. Very interesting indeed.
Not all that interesting when you stop to consider in which areas of the pitch each of those players generally occupied.
Alonso was easily the one who played further from goal. The closer to goal, the less space and time you tend to have and, consequently, the less passes you'd be expected to complete. So, all in all those stats are pretty unsurprising I'd say.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 12 hours ago
Alonso's long ball was fabulous, but his short passing never really stood out. He'd be way down my list in that department. Xavi, Fabregas, Silva, Valerón, Iniesta, Busquets or Cazorla all superior to Alonso in that department to him without even looking outside of Spain.
Alonso was a disciplined footballer who made the most of his attributes, intelligence included, but he's one player who's been put on a pedestal above his station. Would not be at all surprised if he went on to be a top manager though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this.
Fabregas is the best passer of the ball I have seen in the PL. KdB has the best 'through ball' though, which shouldn't equate to being the best passer but it seems to cos punditry is toilet these days.
KDB's set piece delivery is also top notch, as can eriksens, someone who has not been mentioned.
Eriksen is actually the worst corner taker at the club, but on all freekicks he is awesome. Quite bizarre actually.
I usually find his free kicks from crossing positions are decent, his corners trash
Willian is very similar in that regard
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 20 hours, 45 minutes ago
There's much more to awards than saying such and such was the best in this or that year. I've already stated my position in earlier posts.
Firstly, I remarked on how much you consider the value or the position and role they played in their respective sides, and my opinion of the importance of the deep playmaking role.
See also another earlier comment on how criminally underacknowledged Pirlo was in Italy's World Cup triumph.
The Italian defensive stereotype provided the perfect platform to push Cannavaro's and Buffon's ticket, at the expense of relegating Pirlo to an ancillary figure.
If your memory serves you well enough though, you'll remember who it was who made things happen in that Italy team, who took the game by the scruff to bury Germany on home soil in the semis, or the man of the match in the final actually was.
Secondly, despite all my recognition for Figo, I am also fully aware as a Madrid fan of just how much lobbying went on to land him those awards right after we poached him off Barça.
That's not to say he might not have deserved the award at some point in his career, but imho he was an even better player for Barça than he ever was for us. And even there, most of the time he was only actually second best to Rivaldo (although I must add that there's no shame in that).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post. I wouldn't say Figo was ever even the best player at any of the clubs he played for, so I've never quite understood why he's put on such a pedestal.
Think that was my original point, he was not put on that pedestal, imo that pirlo was. You could argue pirlo was never the best player at any of his clubs too. Its all conjecture.
We have had a great few decades(90s and 00s). Seems to be less and less of those flair stars nowdays, maybe its nostalgia!
Sign in if you want to comment
Is KdB a better passer than Scholes?
Page 3 of 3
posted on 12/2/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 7 minutes ago
Really? I would wager figo finished higher up in poty awards etc than pirlo. It's a good discussion to have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
POTY awards shouldn't be the basis for argument though? Considering instances like Giggs winning one; or Zidane undeservedly winning one in 1998.
posted on 12/2/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 46 minutes ago
I think he is, longevity made people glorify him as a striker who was never as good as people want him to be. Was also pretty poor in the 06 WC.
I dunno much about the likes of Seedorf tbh; but Xavi easily comes top of the list. Keane & Vieira comfortably ahead of Scholes as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you have forgotten Zidane existed maybe.
Zidane > Xavi
posted on 12/2/18
no
posted on 12/2/18
Easily.
posted on 12/2/18
There's much more to awards than saying such and such was the best in this or that year. I've already stated my position in earlier posts.
Firstly, I remarked on how much you consider the value or the position and role they played in their respective sides, and my opinion of the importance of the deep playmaking role.
See also another earlier comment on how criminally underacknowledged Pirlo was in Italy's World Cup triumph.
The Italian defensive stereotype provided the perfect platform to push Cannavaro's and Buffon's ticket, at the expense of relegating Pirlo to an ancillary figure.
If your memory serves you well enough though, you'll remember who it was who made things happen in that Italy team, who took the game by the scruff to bury Germany on home soil in the semis, or the man of the match in the final actually was.
Secondly, despite all my recognition for Figo, I am also fully aware as a Madrid fan of just how much lobbying went on to land him those awards right after we poached him off Barça.
That's not to say he might not have deserved the award at some point in his career, but imho he was an even better player for Barça than he ever was for us. And even there, most of the time he was only actually second best to Rivaldo (although I must add that there's no shame in that).
posted on 12/2/18
IOAG, as a die-hard RM & Spain fan I would be interested to see your reasoning as to why Xavi>Zidane as a player?
posted on 12/2/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 35 minutes ago
Find it hard to classify totti as a striker tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe, but you would class Sheringham as a striker as well.
Bit of a grey area I guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheringham played as a striker much more than totti who dropped into an attacking midfielder much of his career
posted on 12/2/18
Zidane is probably the best player of my lifetime, well until ronaldo and messi came along.
posted on 12/2/18
Depends on who he played with. I think you can draw a lot of similarities with Totti and Sheringham. I think both kind of epitomise that Second Striker/False 9 type role.
posted on 12/2/18
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 1 hour, 33 minutes ago
IOAG, as a die-hard RM & Spain fan I would be interested to see your reasoning as to why Xavi>Zidane as a player?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where have I said that?
posted on 12/2/18
Everywhere
posted on 12/2/18
Not true
posted on 12/2/18
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 11 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 13 minutes ago
Scholes is one of the best midfielders of the Premier League, no doubt about it.
That’s not to say, he was the best passer. I always admired his positioning and his simplicity with the ball. He also chipped in with some cracking goals.
As for passing, I’d say Alonso remains the best passer of the ball to have graced the PL. His vision was preposterous at times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re suggesting my praise of Alonso is only on the basis of me being a Liverpool fan then you’re mistaken.
Scholes was probably better in most other departments but for passing, I’d give Alonso the edge.
The guy did it in the 3 best leagues in the world.
posted on 12/2/18
Alonso's long ball was fabulous, but his short passing never really stood out. He'd be way down my list in that department. Xavi, Fabregas, Silva, Valerón, Iniesta, Busquets or Cazorla all superior to Alonso in that department to him without even looking outside of Spain.
Alonso was a disciplined footballer who made the most of his attributes, intelligence included, but he's one player who's been put on a pedestal above his station. Would not be at all surprised if he went on to be a top manager though.
posted on 12/2/18
I think we can put this to bed now.
KdB is the best passer of a football that the PL has ever seen,
posted on 12/2/18
Just checked the stats for the ones mentioned
Scholes 72% (albeit over a longer period)
Fabregas 77%
Alonso 83%
KDB 71%
So KDB has the lowest success rate of all of them. Very interesting indeed.
posted on 12/2/18
Not all that interesting when you stop to consider in which areas of the pitch each of those players generally occupied.
Alonso was easily the one who played further from goal. The closer to goal, the less space and time you tend to have and, consequently, the less passes you'd be expected to complete. So, all in all those stats are pretty unsurprising I'd say.
posted on 13/2/18
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 12 hours ago
Alonso's long ball was fabulous, but his short passing never really stood out. He'd be way down my list in that department. Xavi, Fabregas, Silva, Valerón, Iniesta, Busquets or Cazorla all superior to Alonso in that department to him without even looking outside of Spain.
Alonso was a disciplined footballer who made the most of his attributes, intelligence included, but he's one player who's been put on a pedestal above his station. Would not be at all surprised if he went on to be a top manager though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this.
Fabregas is the best passer of the ball I have seen in the PL. KdB has the best 'through ball' though, which shouldn't equate to being the best passer but it seems to cos punditry is toilet these days.
posted on 13/2/18
KDB's set piece delivery is also top notch, as can eriksens, someone who has not been mentioned.
posted on 13/2/18
Eriksen is actually the worst corner taker at the club, but on all freekicks he is awesome. Quite bizarre actually.
posted on 13/2/18
I usually find his free kicks from crossing positions are decent, his corners trash
posted on 13/2/18
Willian is very similar in that regard
posted on 13/2/18
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 20 hours, 45 minutes ago
There's much more to awards than saying such and such was the best in this or that year. I've already stated my position in earlier posts.
Firstly, I remarked on how much you consider the value or the position and role they played in their respective sides, and my opinion of the importance of the deep playmaking role.
See also another earlier comment on how criminally underacknowledged Pirlo was in Italy's World Cup triumph.
The Italian defensive stereotype provided the perfect platform to push Cannavaro's and Buffon's ticket, at the expense of relegating Pirlo to an ancillary figure.
If your memory serves you well enough though, you'll remember who it was who made things happen in that Italy team, who took the game by the scruff to bury Germany on home soil in the semis, or the man of the match in the final actually was.
Secondly, despite all my recognition for Figo, I am also fully aware as a Madrid fan of just how much lobbying went on to land him those awards right after we poached him off Barça.
That's not to say he might not have deserved the award at some point in his career, but imho he was an even better player for Barça than he ever was for us. And even there, most of the time he was only actually second best to Rivaldo (although I must add that there's no shame in that).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post. I wouldn't say Figo was ever even the best player at any of the clubs he played for, so I've never quite understood why he's put on such a pedestal.
posted on 13/2/18
Think that was my original point, he was not put on that pedestal, imo that pirlo was. You could argue pirlo was never the best player at any of his clubs too. Its all conjecture.
We have had a great few decades(90s and 00s). Seems to be less and less of those flair stars nowdays, maybe its nostalgia!
Page 3 of 3