That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
No it isn't. No other team use those kind of kind of tactics so blatently so frequently. If what was a championship deciding race then anything goes but it's the third race of the season.
If you watched the race and listened to the commentary you have spotted that Brundle was absolutely disgusted by it.As he said, Raikkonen doesn't get out of bed, train hard at the gym to do that.
Every time, every race, Ferrari trash Raikkonen's race.
The last driver that did that was Schmacher, driving for.... Ferrari.
Kimi agreed to join Ferrari as their no 2 driver he knew the score, Alonso was no 1 driver when he was there and Vettel is no 1 driver just now. Its their team they can do whatever they want if the drivers dont like it they dont have to be there. They are paid millions to do as they are told.
The drivers are employed by a company no different to most of us and as such are under their instructions to do their job.
Was a bit of a joke yesterday, Kimi on a non strategy for no apparent reason other than to possibly hold up Bottas after his stop. But he signed a contract, maybe he knows Ferrari is his best option for podiums and wins (if he's ever allowed to).
delboy, I've got no problem with Ferrai having a number one driver and giving him first choice on pit stops, the best strategy, even swapping places for the win.
But Ferrari take it a step too far. Raikkonen wasn't even in the race.
His job was to act as a blocker against Mercedes, nothing more. That's borderline cheating.
I've never seen it so blatant. Raikkonen was not there to compete. Raikonnen was there to stuff up Mercedes race.
Ferrari and Vettel should get a three race ban.
comment by jz550 (U10390)
posted 2 days, 22 hours ago
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When last did they win the championship with these antics?
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 18 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by jz550 (U10390)
posted 2 days, 22 hours ago
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When last did they win the championship with these antics?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not recently but that is more down to finances than anything else. Merc have more... MUCH more!
These "antics" secured them 5 world titles with Schumacher in a row.
If the car is good enough then a number 1 and two driver seems to work best.
Look at the mess Merc had when they didnt have a no 1 and no 2. Since Bottas has come they are back to no 1 and 2 driver. Plenty of teams run with a priority driver who gets new parts first, better crew team and mechanics.
Merc, Ferrari, Mclaren all hvae clear no 1 and no 2 drivers.
comment by delboy82 (U7141)
posted 2 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 18 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by jz550 (U10390)
posted 2 days, 22 hours ago
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When last did they win the championship with these antics?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not recently but that is more down to finances than anything else. Merc have more... MUCH more!
These "antics" secured them 5 world titles with Schumacher in a row.
If the car is good enough then a number 1 and two driver seems to work best.
Look at the mess Merc had when they didnt have a no 1 and no 2. Since Bottas has come they are back to no 1 and 2 driver. Plenty of teams run with a priority driver who gets new parts first, better crew team and mechanics.
Merc, Ferrari, Mclaren all hvae clear no 1 and no 2 drivers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree with that view. The last time Ferrari won the title it was because Mclaren got disqualified.
Merc, even now do not have a number 1 or 2 clearly defined. That's why Hamilton was not pitted when the safety car came out as he could have benefited at the expense of Bottas.
It is the approach they have used which has worked well for them and why they have won the championships they have won.
They need to let Kimi push Seb and the whole team will benefit.
there is nothing to disagree with Ferrari had their most successful period in their and F1's history whilst adopting a no 1 and no 2 driver. As did Red Bull.
MUDD dont give us it Merc may very well not publicly say there is no no1 and no2 driver but if you truly believe that then your posts lose credibilty. Why do Merc pay Bottas a pittance compared to Lewis.
comment by delboy82 (U7141)
posted 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
there is nothing to disagree with Ferrari had their most successful period in their and F1's history whilst adopting a no 1 and no 2 driver. As did Red Bull.
MUDD dont give us it Merc may very well not publicly say there is no no1 and no2 driver but if you truly believe that then your posts lose credibilty. Why do Merc pay Bottas a pittance compared to Lewis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercedes do not have a clearly defined 1 and 2. Look at the strategy calls. They always go to the lead driver except when he is not performing.
Hamilton gave Bottas a place back in Hungary ffs
Would Ferrari have done that?
They did not pit Hamilton in the last race because of the way they treat their drivers.
Ferrari would have done it in a heartbeat
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by delboy82 (U7141)
posted 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
there is nothing to disagree with Ferrari had their most successful period in their and F1's history whilst adopting a no 1 and no 2 driver. As did Red Bull.
MUDD dont give us it Merc may very well not publicly say there is no no1 and no2 driver but if you truly believe that then your posts lose credibilty. Why do Merc pay Bottas a pittance compared to Lewis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercedes do not have a clearly defined 1 and 2. Look at the strategy calls. They always go to the lead driver except when he is not performing.
Hamilton gave Bottas a place back in Hungary ffs
Would Ferrari have done that?
They did not pit Hamilton in the last race because of the way they treat their drivers.
Ferrari would have done it in a heartbeat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Merc do no think of drivers as equal, hence why the pay difference.
As I said, the most successful spell in F1 AND in Ferrari's history was based on a strong no 1 and no 2 driver.
So are you saying that Merc treat Bottas and Hamilton as bang on equals?
For info:
Schumi 94 & 95 Benetton
Hakkinen 98 & 99 Mclaren
Schumi 00-04 Ferrari
Alonso 05 & 06 Benetton
Hamilton 08 Mclaren
Vettel 10-13 Red Bull
15 WDC's with definite no 1 and no 2 drivers
Hill 96 Williams
Villneavue 97 Williams
Raikonnen 07 Ferrari
Button 08 Brawn
4 WDC's with no set no 1 or 2 drivers
Now even if I say that there is no no 1 or 2 drivers at merc right now (i think there is other than the year Rosberg won) but even if I do give you the last 4 are NOT no 1 and no 2 drivers then that overall 15 of the titles going back to 1994 were won by a no 1 and no 2 driver set up and only whilst only 8 (and I dont even agree with that total) have been won by setups that dont have a defined no 1 driver.
Shows to me that it can be very effective and as evidence shows more beneficial to run a no 1 and no 2 driver.
I am not arguing that having a number 2 driver is bad. I am arguing that not letting the number 2 driver compete against the number 1 driver is the problem.
They should push each other, except Seb does not believe he can beat Kimi in a fair fight
You've hit the nail on the head manutddaredevil.
I have absolutely no problem with a number 1/2 driver setup. In fact, I think it is the optimum approach for teams.
But, and it's a big but, that's different to how Ferrari go about it under Vettel and Schumacher.
Are those two drivers too afraid to race their team mate? (Only one time has Vettel had a team mate who was allowed to race him on an even playing field and that was Ricciardo who owned him).
Number one driver status to me means first choice on pit stops, first to get the upgrades, even swapping places at the end of the race.
It doesn't mean the sole purpose of the second car and driver is to cheat the rest of the field to the advantage of the first car.
Ferrari crossed that line. Shame on them.
comment by neutralfootballfan (U21589)
posted 1 day, 13 hours ago
You've hit the nail on the head manutddaredevil.
I have absolutely no problem with a number 1/2 driver setup. In fact, I think it is the optimum approach for teams.
But, and it's a big but, that's different to how Ferrari go about it under Vettel and Schumacher.
Are those two drivers too afraid to race their team mate? (Only one time has Vettel had a team mate who was allowed to race him on an even playing field and that was Ricciardo who owned him).
Number one driver status to me means first choice on pit stops, first to get the upgrades, even swapping places at the end of the race.
It doesn't mean the sole purpose of the second car and driver is to cheat the rest of the field to the advantage of the first car.
Ferrari crossed that line. Shame on them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not just that , its first choice on mechanics and engineers. If upgrades coming in are known to be better the no 1 driver gets them first. If they are unsure if they are better then the get given to number 2 driver to "race test". However Raikonen couldnt have been going that slow if the cars behind them struggled to pass him. This is all stems from the rules in place for the cars to be fair however. Its so difficult to overtake now in F1 that cars can be used as rolling road blocks. this is the main problem and how teams are able to exploit it. its got to the stage now that pit stops are the most exciting part of a race now. more on track overtakes in rallies!!
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Ferrari disgust me
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posted on 15/4/18
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
posted on 15/4/18
No it isn't. No other team use those kind of kind of tactics so blatently so frequently. If what was a championship deciding race then anything goes but it's the third race of the season.
If you watched the race and listened to the commentary you have spotted that Brundle was absolutely disgusted by it.As he said, Raikkonen doesn't get out of bed, train hard at the gym to do that.
Every time, every race, Ferrari trash Raikkonen's race.
The last driver that did that was Schmacher, driving for.... Ferrari.
posted on 16/4/18
Kimi agreed to join Ferrari as their no 2 driver he knew the score, Alonso was no 1 driver when he was there and Vettel is no 1 driver just now. Its their team they can do whatever they want if the drivers dont like it they dont have to be there. They are paid millions to do as they are told.
The drivers are employed by a company no different to most of us and as such are under their instructions to do their job.
posted on 16/4/18
Was a bit of a joke yesterday, Kimi on a non strategy for no apparent reason other than to possibly hold up Bottas after his stop. But he signed a contract, maybe he knows Ferrari is his best option for podiums and wins (if he's ever allowed to).
posted on 17/4/18
delboy, I've got no problem with Ferrai having a number one driver and giving him first choice on pit stops, the best strategy, even swapping places for the win.
But Ferrari take it a step too far. Raikkonen wasn't even in the race.
His job was to act as a blocker against Mercedes, nothing more. That's borderline cheating.
I've never seen it so blatant. Raikkonen was not there to compete. Raikonnen was there to stuff up Mercedes race.
Ferrari and Vettel should get a three race ban.
posted on 18/4/18
comment by jz550 (U10390)
posted 2 days, 22 hours ago
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When last did they win the championship with these antics?
posted on 19/4/18
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 18 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by jz550 (U10390)
posted 2 days, 22 hours ago
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When last did they win the championship with these antics?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not recently but that is more down to finances than anything else. Merc have more... MUCH more!
These "antics" secured them 5 world titles with Schumacher in a row.
If the car is good enough then a number 1 and two driver seems to work best.
Look at the mess Merc had when they didnt have a no 1 and no 2. Since Bottas has come they are back to no 1 and 2 driver. Plenty of teams run with a priority driver who gets new parts first, better crew team and mechanics.
Merc, Ferrari, Mclaren all hvae clear no 1 and no 2 drivers.
posted on 19/4/18
comment by delboy82 (U7141)
posted 2 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 18 hours, 44 minutes ago
comment by jz550 (U10390)
posted 2 days, 22 hours ago
That's not an unfair advantage. They're deploying a tactic so they can get the best for the team. That's motorsport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When last did they win the championship with these antics?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not recently but that is more down to finances than anything else. Merc have more... MUCH more!
These "antics" secured them 5 world titles with Schumacher in a row.
If the car is good enough then a number 1 and two driver seems to work best.
Look at the mess Merc had when they didnt have a no 1 and no 2. Since Bottas has come they are back to no 1 and 2 driver. Plenty of teams run with a priority driver who gets new parts first, better crew team and mechanics.
Merc, Ferrari, Mclaren all hvae clear no 1 and no 2 drivers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree with that view. The last time Ferrari won the title it was because Mclaren got disqualified.
Merc, even now do not have a number 1 or 2 clearly defined. That's why Hamilton was not pitted when the safety car came out as he could have benefited at the expense of Bottas.
It is the approach they have used which has worked well for them and why they have won the championships they have won.
They need to let Kimi push Seb and the whole team will benefit.
posted on 19/4/18
there is nothing to disagree with Ferrari had their most successful period in their and F1's history whilst adopting a no 1 and no 2 driver. As did Red Bull.
MUDD dont give us it Merc may very well not publicly say there is no no1 and no2 driver but if you truly believe that then your posts lose credibilty. Why do Merc pay Bottas a pittance compared to Lewis.
posted on 19/4/18
comment by delboy82 (U7141)
posted 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
there is nothing to disagree with Ferrari had their most successful period in their and F1's history whilst adopting a no 1 and no 2 driver. As did Red Bull.
MUDD dont give us it Merc may very well not publicly say there is no no1 and no2 driver but if you truly believe that then your posts lose credibilty. Why do Merc pay Bottas a pittance compared to Lewis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercedes do not have a clearly defined 1 and 2. Look at the strategy calls. They always go to the lead driver except when he is not performing.
Hamilton gave Bottas a place back in Hungary ffs
Would Ferrari have done that?
They did not pit Hamilton in the last race because of the way they treat their drivers.
Ferrari would have done it in a heartbeat
posted on 19/4/18
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by delboy82 (U7141)
posted 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
there is nothing to disagree with Ferrari had their most successful period in their and F1's history whilst adopting a no 1 and no 2 driver. As did Red Bull.
MUDD dont give us it Merc may very well not publicly say there is no no1 and no2 driver but if you truly believe that then your posts lose credibilty. Why do Merc pay Bottas a pittance compared to Lewis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercedes do not have a clearly defined 1 and 2. Look at the strategy calls. They always go to the lead driver except when he is not performing.
Hamilton gave Bottas a place back in Hungary ffs
Would Ferrari have done that?
They did not pit Hamilton in the last race because of the way they treat their drivers.
Ferrari would have done it in a heartbeat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Merc do no think of drivers as equal, hence why the pay difference.
As I said, the most successful spell in F1 AND in Ferrari's history was based on a strong no 1 and no 2 driver.
So are you saying that Merc treat Bottas and Hamilton as bang on equals?
For info:
Schumi 94 & 95 Benetton
Hakkinen 98 & 99 Mclaren
Schumi 00-04 Ferrari
Alonso 05 & 06 Benetton
Hamilton 08 Mclaren
Vettel 10-13 Red Bull
15 WDC's with definite no 1 and no 2 drivers
Hill 96 Williams
Villneavue 97 Williams
Raikonnen 07 Ferrari
Button 08 Brawn
4 WDC's with no set no 1 or 2 drivers
Now even if I say that there is no no 1 or 2 drivers at merc right now (i think there is other than the year Rosberg won) but even if I do give you the last 4 are NOT no 1 and no 2 drivers then that overall 15 of the titles going back to 1994 were won by a no 1 and no 2 driver set up and only whilst only 8 (and I dont even agree with that total) have been won by setups that dont have a defined no 1 driver.
Shows to me that it can be very effective and as evidence shows more beneficial to run a no 1 and no 2 driver.
posted on 19/4/18
sorry 16 WDC's not 15 !
posted on 19/4/18
I am not arguing that having a number 2 driver is bad. I am arguing that not letting the number 2 driver compete against the number 1 driver is the problem.
They should push each other, except Seb does not believe he can beat Kimi in a fair fight
posted on 21/4/18
You've hit the nail on the head manutddaredevil.
I have absolutely no problem with a number 1/2 driver setup. In fact, I think it is the optimum approach for teams.
But, and it's a big but, that's different to how Ferrari go about it under Vettel and Schumacher.
Are those two drivers too afraid to race their team mate? (Only one time has Vettel had a team mate who was allowed to race him on an even playing field and that was Ricciardo who owned him).
Number one driver status to me means first choice on pit stops, first to get the upgrades, even swapping places at the end of the race.
It doesn't mean the sole purpose of the second car and driver is to cheat the rest of the field to the advantage of the first car.
Ferrari crossed that line. Shame on them.
posted on 23/4/18
comment by neutralfootballfan (U21589)
posted 1 day, 13 hours ago
You've hit the nail on the head manutddaredevil.
I have absolutely no problem with a number 1/2 driver setup. In fact, I think it is the optimum approach for teams.
But, and it's a big but, that's different to how Ferrari go about it under Vettel and Schumacher.
Are those two drivers too afraid to race their team mate? (Only one time has Vettel had a team mate who was allowed to race him on an even playing field and that was Ricciardo who owned him).
Number one driver status to me means first choice on pit stops, first to get the upgrades, even swapping places at the end of the race.
It doesn't mean the sole purpose of the second car and driver is to cheat the rest of the field to the advantage of the first car.
Ferrari crossed that line. Shame on them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not just that , its first choice on mechanics and engineers. If upgrades coming in are known to be better the no 1 driver gets them first. If they are unsure if they are better then the get given to number 2 driver to "race test". However Raikonen couldnt have been going that slow if the cars behind them struggled to pass him. This is all stems from the rules in place for the cars to be fair however. Its so difficult to overtake now in F1 that cars can be used as rolling road blocks. this is the main problem and how teams are able to exploit it. its got to the stage now that pit stops are the most exciting part of a race now. more on track overtakes in rallies!!
Page 1 of 1