You on about Lingard. I thought he was average for us and we had better players at the club at the time. So did McClaren apparently. When a loanee is average they become crap when they leave, it's the rules. He didn't really shine with us although I believe scored a couple of goals.

Oddly Ibe seemed a much better player but their respective careers have gone in opposite directions. Hard to say who will become a quality player. We all thought West Ham were taking the pee when they were after Giles Barnes but a couple of seasons later we would have snatched their hands off.

3 top earners in the shape of Bent Shackell and Baird gone. Likely to see Martin go along with the Vydra money in.
That puts us in better shape financially already. Perhaps Butterfield and Blackman will leave too. Which will mean Rowett is where he wanted to be at the start of last season with the exception of not having Vydra.
I think there’ll be enough in the pot to find that box to box midfielder that Bryson no longer is. I think Lawrence plays better as a 10 and we could see something more from him next season.
I want to see Elsnik Thomas Gordon Bird and Guy moved up to the first team and Bennett and Hanson moved on.
I had high hopes for Thorne last season but it never came off. Perhaps he can find his passing range again but I think he’s lost too much confidence with his injuries. It’s a shame because he was excellent at his best. I don’t know if it’s worth trying him next term. My heart says yes but head says give Timi Max his slot.

Good Friday 2014 I saw Thorne control the game like a puppet master at relegation threatened Doncaster. Wind on to Good Friday 2018 against another struggling side and Thorne looked a shadow of the player he was. It made me really sad to see him struggling.

“Hard to see who will become a quality player”

You’ve finally come around to my point of view, Spart. What took you so long?

Don't talk like a tw@. I have known this since I was at school and saw those I thought were brilliant signed by league clubs never make it, but a couple of guys played none league and were later snapped up by league clubs.

George Best turned down by Antrim, Kevin Keegan turned down by Doncaster Rovers, there are so many examples of "experts" not seeing potential.

Yet you continue to write players off after a couple of appearances. I might have thought you would have learned from previous humiliations.

The thing is to get rid of players you have to have a buyer. When players sign for Derby they get good wages. That then rules out a massive amount of clubs who can afford to pay them the same. If they are not playing well then which Prem or top Championship side will buy them? We are stuck with them until contracts run out. Unless we sell em cheap and pay a percentage of their wages. Whos gonna buy Butterfield? Who can afford Martin? Whos gonna pay Bryson his wages? If Rowett reverted to 433 then there maybe still a job for Martin and Bryson but currently the system Rowett plays theres nothing here for em.

'Craig Forsyth – the floppiest player I have ever seen. So weak!'
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Floppy .

Agree with Backo though, we are stuck with many of these players unless they are out of contract or we are prepared to take a massive hit on them to.move them on or terminate their contracts.

Sam Rush and his golden contracts for mediocre players

"I still have hopes for Bennett.."

Cardiff may buy Bryson, they have the cash now. Another loan spell for Martin, probably at QPR.

Butterfield who knows, who cares other than us. He isn't a bad player but I think he needs to be the centre of attention. He did well at smaller clubs but hasn't done anything at places with higher expectations. Forest could be interested.

I still have hopes for you, 666, which is even funnier.

Not sure I believe it but rumours of Butterfield and Winnal to be confirmed in a swap deal next week. Anyone heard anything about this deal? Also Collins of West Ham.

Should Winnal come in we desperately need to move on Martin and Nugent. If we could pip some of the clubs rumoured to be interested I think Hernandez of Hull could be a great signing. ( But perhaps instead of buying the expensive version we should be looking overseas for a raw version. We definitely need to find a player that offers something different up front. )

Given Pearce was captain at Reading I expected more from him. When he came into the side with Derby playing a three man defence I expected Forsyth to be kept out. I think both Forsyth and Pearce need to go, why either was given a new contract is a mystery. A left footed central defender and without a doubt a better left back. Ollson is out, Forsyth just not offering what's required in the role of left wing back. I think it's where Derby need to be smart and look for out of contract players overseas.

Rowett - Delete.