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Micheal Sari,Fekir,Mahrez and Koulibaly plus Sandro as 5 summer signings with one forward like Mandzukic or Icardi would be a dream summer.In reality,if Chelsea sign even three out of 6 players I suggested,I would be delighted.
We are losing games in the centre of the park, It is where we needed more quality.
I am not too concerned about the wings.
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Again I agree, but again that's actually an argument to switch to a back 4 (if we don't want to overhaul the existing midfield).
Because we've got the likes of Hazard, Willan & Pedro, we can't switch to a 352 (the natural three man defense system which seeks to control the middle) without sacrificing two of them. Switching to a back 4, whether that be 433/451/4231/442, frees up that extra man enabling us to utilize two of them in every match.
Now the PL has grown accustomed to three at the back, the 343 has become an out and out counter attacking system. To make it work going forward while maintaining control over the majority of our matches we'd need to buy a complete CM capable of just about everything while sharing Kante's grafting qualities (someone like Milinkovic Savic).
Three at the back is a delicate system, it didn't work in the PL for years for a reason. We've got a squad set up to play it, but only half of it has the required quality to compete at the top with it.
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True. Luiz & Azpl are better in back 3's, and the 343/352 allows Hazard to stay up the pitch. But again, the WB's just aren't good enough so realistically we'd need to replace two players instead of one.
A lot of this is down to the budget and who the manager is. If Sarri's the new man and money won't restrict him, a 433/343 hybrid shouldn't be a problem with the right signings (FB's/WB's being two of them). The fact he's managed in Serie A for years means he'll be familiar with 3?? systems + he's well versed in 4312 so he's used to narrow systems. The issue for Jardim is he's only ever played with a back 4 playing against opposition who play back 4's, asking him to adapt to accommodate our existing squad would be a big risk - hence my argument a few posts ago that stripping players who'll be problematic to a system change (Alonso, Moses, possibly Zappa) would reduce that risk.
If we keep Conte (unlike as that seems), then I completely agree 352 is the way to go. The Willan/Pedro problem resolves itself as Willan will leave
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You've watched what I've watched this season mate. Didn't say they were bad, said they weren't good enough. They're OK players playing in roles where the formation requires them to be exceptional.... e.g. imagine how many more goals Morata could've got this season if Moses knew how to cross properly
Hazard is better when the system allows him to shun defensive duties, but saying he doesn't work in a 433 or 4231 is a bit of a stretch. Built his rep in France as a playmaker and was the PL's best player out wide in Jose's 4231 the year we won the title. Losing Azpl at CB is the biggest sacrifice of dropping our system, Hazard will be fine.
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He doesn't directly contribute to enough goals to warrant that attitude.
You're also assuming his only positions in 433 or 4231 are out wide + we couldn't accommodate him anyway. He can play false 9 in the 433, stick Azpl & Kante on his flank and he could play wing without an urgent need to track back. Can play behind the striker in 4231, get him in the link up a bit more. We have options basically.
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Knew you would go there. I was on that other thread, remember that exact comparison
Having a system that neglects your need to track back is one thing, but if you make demands to not help out the team tracking back, then you effectively need the goal/assist return of a striker to justify it, as they're typically the only players who don't track back into their own half however defensive the manager is. When Ronaldo clashed with Mourinho over that, fair enough. Hazard? Nah.
If he truly felt like that, which is guess work btw, then he's better off leaving quite frankly. He'll have outgrown us in his own mind.
Playing false 9 in Conte's 343 and an attacking oriented manager's 433 (Sarri's for example) is completely different. Conte's teams have always operated with a focal point of attack - Llorente, Morata, Pelle, Costa, Giroud - so it's hardly surprising he couldn't get a false 9 working properly. Look at the job Sarri has done with Mertens, your telling me Hazard couldn't fill that role in that setup?
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Other players of his quality dont have to put yp with that BS.
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Salah has happily engaged in the defensive work and outscored Hazard by almost triple this season despite being the inferior all round player with players around him who aren't that much better than our own. That would be Hazard's ego, not principle. And again, conjecture.
Just because he's our most creative player wouldn't entitle him to more than he's worth. He's not on that Suarez/Bale level in terms of impact and influence on their clubs (he's our Sanchez), if he was on that level we'd have at least finished 4th this year even with that average squad.
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The issue isn't Hazard's ego (it would be if he behaved as you said), it's you declaring that Hazard WILL leave if he's asked to tracked back by our new manager with absolutely no evidence.
The conversation is over. Later
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posted on 21/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/5/18
Micheal Sari,Fekir,Mahrez and Koulibaly plus Sandro as 5 summer signings with one forward like Mandzukic or Icardi would be a dream summer.In reality,if Chelsea sign even three out of 6 players I suggested,I would be delighted.
posted on 22/5/18
We are losing games in the centre of the park, It is where we needed more quality.
I am not too concerned about the wings.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Again I agree, but again that's actually an argument to switch to a back 4 (if we don't want to overhaul the existing midfield).
Because we've got the likes of Hazard, Willan & Pedro, we can't switch to a 352 (the natural three man defense system which seeks to control the middle) without sacrificing two of them. Switching to a back 4, whether that be 433/451/4231/442, frees up that extra man enabling us to utilize two of them in every match.
Now the PL has grown accustomed to three at the back, the 343 has become an out and out counter attacking system. To make it work going forward while maintaining control over the majority of our matches we'd need to buy a complete CM capable of just about everything while sharing Kante's grafting qualities (someone like Milinkovic Savic).
Three at the back is a delicate system, it didn't work in the PL for years for a reason. We've got a squad set up to play it, but only half of it has the required quality to compete at the top with it.
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
True. Luiz & Azpl are better in back 3's, and the 343/352 allows Hazard to stay up the pitch. But again, the WB's just aren't good enough so realistically we'd need to replace two players instead of one.
A lot of this is down to the budget and who the manager is. If Sarri's the new man and money won't restrict him, a 433/343 hybrid shouldn't be a problem with the right signings (FB's/WB's being two of them). The fact he's managed in Serie A for years means he'll be familiar with 3?? systems + he's well versed in 4312 so he's used to narrow systems. The issue for Jardim is he's only ever played with a back 4 playing against opposition who play back 4's, asking him to adapt to accommodate our existing squad would be a big risk - hence my argument a few posts ago that stripping players who'll be problematic to a system change (Alonso, Moses, possibly Zappa) would reduce that risk.
If we keep Conte (unlike as that seems), then I completely agree 352 is the way to go. The Willan/Pedro problem resolves itself as Willan will leave
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
You've watched what I've watched this season mate. Didn't say they were bad, said they weren't good enough. They're OK players playing in roles where the formation requires them to be exceptional.... e.g. imagine how many more goals Morata could've got this season if Moses knew how to cross properly
Hazard is better when the system allows him to shun defensive duties, but saying he doesn't work in a 433 or 4231 is a bit of a stretch. Built his rep in France as a playmaker and was the PL's best player out wide in Jose's 4231 the year we won the title. Losing Azpl at CB is the biggest sacrifice of dropping our system, Hazard will be fine.
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
He doesn't directly contribute to enough goals to warrant that attitude.
You're also assuming his only positions in 433 or 4231 are out wide + we couldn't accommodate him anyway. He can play false 9 in the 433, stick Azpl & Kante on his flank and he could play wing without an urgent need to track back. Can play behind the striker in 4231, get him in the link up a bit more. We have options basically.
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
Knew you would go there. I was on that other thread, remember that exact comparison
Having a system that neglects your need to track back is one thing, but if you make demands to not help out the team tracking back, then you effectively need the goal/assist return of a striker to justify it, as they're typically the only players who don't track back into their own half however defensive the manager is. When Ronaldo clashed with Mourinho over that, fair enough. Hazard? Nah.
If he truly felt like that, which is guess work btw, then he's better off leaving quite frankly. He'll have outgrown us in his own mind.
Playing false 9 in Conte's 343 and an attacking oriented manager's 433 (Sarri's for example) is completely different. Conte's teams have always operated with a focal point of attack - Llorente, Morata, Pelle, Costa, Giroud - so it's hardly surprising he couldn't get a false 9 working properly. Look at the job Sarri has done with Mertens, your telling me Hazard couldn't fill that role in that setup?
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
Other players of his quality dont have to put yp with that BS.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Salah has happily engaged in the defensive work and outscored Hazard by almost triple this season despite being the inferior all round player with players around him who aren't that much better than our own. That would be Hazard's ego, not principle. And again, conjecture.
Just because he's our most creative player wouldn't entitle him to more than he's worth. He's not on that Suarez/Bale level in terms of impact and influence on their clubs (he's our Sanchez), if he was on that level we'd have at least finished 4th this year even with that average squad.
posted on 22/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/5/18
The issue isn't Hazard's ego (it would be if he behaved as you said), it's you declaring that Hazard WILL leave if he's asked to tracked back by our new manager with absolutely no evidence.
The conversation is over. Later
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