Kasper is better than Begovic, he hardly looked that convincing himself.

The result was a disaster but the result flattered Bournemouth, defensively we are a joke and Claude must take flack for that with his defensive picks.

Every man and his dog knows Wes should be put out of his misery and dropped to a role on the bench and that Ricardo is not a natural right back.

I think (god knows who) a decent manager could do decent things with our current squad.

Scoreline flattered Bournemouth ^

Let’s talk about the game but make it all about the Keeper???

Sorry nev
Are you saying we lost 4-2 because kasper let in 3 goals that he should have stopped ?
Nothing to do with the fact that the team played sjite ? & that's before talking about tactics.
Before we talk about the manager team selection,
And ultimately the manager
& I don't know anyone who was saying it was a cast iron 3-points before kick off

We lost that game because we were defensively poor.

I want there, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work that one out. 5 at the back or Simpson back in with pereira moved up is needed soon.

At least we created more chances, but we still haven’t quite clicked in the final 3rd either.

Lots for Puel to fix.

5 games to save himself for me.

I think you have a valid point about Bournemouth. We’ve never beaten them in the PL - even in 15/16 - and I never expected this result to be in our favour.

The bigger point for me, however, is that I’m desperate to see signs that our manager is on the right path. I want to watch a game that makes me think we’re heading in the right direction. The end of last season was dire so I’ve wanted to see evidence, after a full close season, that Puel will be successful in the medium and long term. I’m yet to see that game.

We have been poor in 3/5 games and ok against Liverpool and Man Utd without ever looking like we’d have the creativity to break those teams down. The good thing is we’ve somehow won two games, although the performances have still made me feel nervous.

I’ve often said that I like many things that Puel is doing: transitioning youth into the team, planning for the longer term, having a structure and vision. The problem is that you’ll only get the leeway to implement all of that if you get performances from the first team on a consistent basis. Without that it doesn’t matter what else you get right - and I’m still not seeing it.

On Pereira - I’m a bit cheesed off! We’ve been after a RB for yonks as everyone could see that Simpson didn’t fit with Puel’s vision of an attacking full back. Now people are saying that Pereira isn’t a RB, but a winger. If that’s the case then Simpson is once again the best choice at RB as, let’s be honest, there is no way that Amartey should be ahead of him. So another summer of recruitment and finally getting a player in a position we’ve been desperate to recruit in for ages - and it appears we’re back to square one!!!! Another recruitment disaster and monumental coq up if that’s the case.

Question for you, Nev. You talk about a team in transition. I can sympathise with that, and it's why I'm content that Puel gets time to sort things out even though I'm not a great fan of his. So, in your opinion - not what you think the owners might do or any other re-qualification of the question - how long should Puel get? Is the transition "as long as it takes"? Do you expect to see certain types of results, like better statistics?

Essentially, how do we differentiate "this is a team in transition" from "this is a deep, dark tunnel with no light at the end of it"?

Joby

Pretty much agree with everything you say.

I am still (marginally) in the Puel camp although I acknowledge I am in a dwindling minority.

I like to see football played on the floor and I do think we have the players capable of playing that way, but defensively we have been poor. This is strange because at Southampton he managed a system that resulted in very few goals against, although very few goals for either. We seem to be getting the latter but not the former.

I am desperate to see him do well and for his system to click but clearly he is going to get a limited amount of time to deliver. Most fans on here (and probably the majority at the matches) have given up on him already. I can understand their frustration but I am still holding out hope it will come together in the next few weeks.

^^^^ incidentally Nev, do my comments mean I want us to sack the manager? No they don’t. I actually don’t think there is much point right now.

The time to get rid would have been at the end of last season. We decided to stick instead of twist so he needs a minimum of ten games. I think, however, it needs to be under continual review and any flirtation with the relegation zone would certainly be enough for me to panic. Unless we are getting into trouble I’d give him until Christmas. If we’re looking fairly safe he maybe should get the season - but I say that currently with major doubts that he’ll ever be the right guy.

Joby, whilst I love and respect you (obvs) I don’t think the recruitment can be blamed for Pereira.

Everything pointed to him being a perfect attacking full back, but the reality is that in luel’s system he fails at it because he’s too exposed.

For me he’s a great player and great acquisition. He’s just being deployed in the wrong system, or in the right system with the wrong personnel ahead of him.

comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
Joby, whilst I love and respect you (obvs) I don’t think the recruitment can be blamed for Pereira.

Everything pointed to him being a perfect attacking full back, but the reality is that in luel’s system he fails at it because he’s too exposed.

For me he’s a great player and great acquisition. He’s just being deployed in the wrong system, or in the right system with the wrong personnel ahead of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Mers,

Not “necessarily” blaming our recruitment team here - or saying that RP was a bad buy. I'm simply pointing out that if we find ourselves in a situation where Simpson is starting at RB (which is what some people are advocating and isn’t such a bad shout when the alternative is Amartey), in the same system with the same limitations as before then surely we haven’t made any progress at all in that area? That would be hugely frustrating.

If we wanted a good player, but in the wrong system then we could have just stuck with Simpson. He’s great as a defensive full back in a 4-4-2 as 2015/16 proved. We say Simpson can’t play in Puel’s system because he can’t attack and that Pereira can’t play in it because he’s too exposed.

In that case, as you say, the only other possible explanation is that we’re playing the wrong players elsewhere. In which case we shouldn’t be pointing the finger at Pereira at all.

I just think everything needs to be absolutely perfect to make Puel’s system work.

Full backs bomb on and there’s not enough cover at the back. Full backs don’t bomb on and we create naff all.

Puel now seems to have all the right “types” of players in each position and it’s still not working. I’m starting the think the system is wrong, not the players.

“as anyone one there that did not think we need to get rid of the manager or saw anything but doom and gloom”

I don’t think Puel should be sacked as of today. Looking forward, “at the moment” there is little that makes me confident he will retain his position though I. Terms of results, performances but also, most worrying, that I don’t see where Puel wants to take us as being the same vision I thought/hoped he had and one that is entirely based around trying to turn a team into a system rather than analysing and creating the best system for a team moving forward.

I think what Puel is aspiring to is achievable, at this level, possibly at a big club who can attract top class players, but not something I see working here.

What I find most frustrating, desperately frustrating, is that we have the players now to evolve to the next stage that we were all suggesting (more combative in the middle of the park and a more creative player for Okazaki role) yet I feel we are completely going to miss a trick and continue to steer not only away from this but towards something that isn’t working and I don’t see as being successful even when it is ‘working’.

Positives:
Maddison continues to look good.
I can’t see how even Puel won’t be able to see/accept that the current tactics in this formation won’t work in terms of full backs and therefore - surely, he will have to at least have a bit of rethink.

I can't get all this negativity. We have definalty improved from last season moving the ball quicker we are suffering from losing Marhez and waiting for new players to bed in but if you don't want to see it you won't.
I think 10 games is a good guide but unless we sit in relegation places the owners will give him all season.
So this place is going to be fun.
Notice no one comes on here to support the manager for fear of getting the treatment.

Even if this way of playing, with these players, and these tactics, at this club was showing at least some signs of development I’d still be worried that it wouldn’t be more successful than what we had before, or certainly, could be doing instead with Ndidi/Mendy and Maddison in particular.

Yet, we aren’t even in this position, there is no next to no suggestion at all that this is even working, let along working better than what we had.

Would the system work with better players
Say Liverpool or arsenal
Unfortunately I don't think the standard of players is the answer,

If it was almost working and needed a few tweaks of champions league standard players you could hope the club would try to buy those 2 players and we take the next step up,
The great escape season I was probably one of the few who stood by Pearson as I could tell we were close even though we mostly list games,
In that case we believe it took others to convince him to change formation and
The rest is,history,,

Winning season CR comes in tweaks it slightly and got massive results,

But im not convinced either higher class players or tweaks in the system will work this time,

I think you are right Nev, I think we are moving the ball a bit better. But we aren’t moving it as quickly or with any real threat in compared to how we used to...hence my worry about improvements still not actually being better than what we had.

I support Puel in relation to wanting to control he play more from the perspective of not giving the ball away and turn over the opposition quicker. But my gut feeling is that this is a byproduct of the other changes (ones which are having little positive effect) that he is looking to bring in. My support of Puel was/is based on this long term plan that, actually, I’m not even sure is his long term plan.

Notice no one comes on here to support the manager for fear of getting the treatment

No nev
No one comes on to support him because he's getting it so wrong

Dublin, if you had world class attacking full backs, and two world class players either side of Maddison, I think it probably would reap rewards. But we don’t, won’t, have another system that it could be adapted to evolve what we already had and limits one of the best strikers in the league.

In fact, that’s a worthy question - would any other team/manager limit Vardy the way we have if they had the same level/quality of players and resources? Of course the answer is no...then why are we?? What is this benefit we are getting from those three behind him that outweighs or even just counterbalances the loss of playing in a way that makes the most of his excellent talents ??

spot on
One that is entirely based around trying to turn a team into a system rather than analysing and creating the best system for a team!!

We haven't missed mahrez
Because we haven't played well enough too !

comment by Keep_the_faith1 (U8129)
posted 6 minutes ago
Dublin, if you had world class attacking full backs, and two world class players either side of Maddison, I think it probably would reap rewards. But we don’t, won’t, have another system that it could be adapted to evolve what we already had and limits one of the best strikers in the league.

In fact, that’s a worthy question - would any other team/manager limit Vardy the way we have if they had the same level/quality of players and resources? Of course the answer is no...then why are we?? What is this benefit we are getting from those three behind him that outweighs or even just counterbalances the loss of playing in a way that makes the most of his excellent talents ??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the obvious answer is no you'd be setting up to get the best from your strike force!

“In that case, as you say, the only other possible explanation is that we’re playing the wrong players elsewhere. In which case we shouldn’t be pointing the finger at Pereira at all. “

Maybe you need to watch MOTD highlights then to see him having a Sunday afternoon still back while Frazer ran past him going on the score

Pretty sure he was doing the same for the second.

Face the penalty away, the same thing Amartey got slaughter for.

Coukdn’t Be ar$ed to put a challenge for the fourth goal.

Blooming eco, that was some spell checking

"if you don't want to see it you won't"

--------

You know Nev, it's statements like this that get BlackStarr leaping down your throat. Not that he should or that I'm advocating it. But the inference here is surely that anyone expressing doubts is somehow lying and lacking integrity, and just wants Puel sacked for reasons unspecified.

I can see that Mahrez has gone and that that creativity is a big loss for any team. My concern is that we were useless last season while he was still here and haven't looked a threat through most of this calendar year. Nor is there anything tangible to pin my hat on to say that's likely to change.

If I met Puel tomorrow, the one question I would ask him would be which club of which era he was trying to emulate style-wise. What is the end goal, then we can judge whether that sounds like a good idea and whether we're getting anywhere near it. At the moment all we have to go on is blind faith that Puel will get it right in the end. Granted that worked with Pearson but it usually ends in just continued drudgery.

KTF1 is basically writing my thoughts at the minute. So I’ll just add “what he said”.