I know that we've moved away from a game based on solid defence and fast counter attacking football. I've never asked this question before but I'm going to now. Why?
It won us the League.
It seems to suit Atletico as a permanent method.
Liverpool are using it to make a decent shot at winning the League.
Note I'm not saying we'd be competing at the top, nor that we wouldn't have to improve against teams who sat back against us - but that's what I assume BS is talking about by getting better players - we could have built on what we had.
Irritatingly we can still see it occasionally in flashes so it hasn't been completely erased.
Nuneaton - I was making this argument two years ago. Unfortunately what happened is that the club panicked. We had a bad reaction to winning the title, made some poor transfer decisions and then made some bad decisions - culminating in the myth that we couldn’t continue with the philosiphy that had brought so much success. So we went the other way entirely
The thinking was that teams had worked us out. It was over - you couldn’t play that way anymore, it was nonsense, what we needed was to sign better players - not throw everything Pearson, Walsh and Ranieri had built.
Sadly those days aren’t coming back and as Stoke started to find out - when you move away from who you really are. It usually ends badly
Foxello - one thing I’d put to you is this: If Puel has plans that he wants his players to implement, but that those players cannot do so, then actually Puel himself has the wrong ideas. To give an extreme example, with the best will in the world, you can’t make Whitby Town play like Barcelona, and instructing them to play as such is the wrong idea. If Puel has ideas of how to play but his players aren’t getting it, maybe his ideas can’t be implemented with the quality of players we can afford/attract.
I don’t fall into the camp of wanting him fired ASAP, but I can’t buy into the idea of him being some genius whose tactical genius is being ruined by idiot players. There are some things about Puel that I like, but I think there are some plans he has fundamentally wrong.
Interesting post Dunge. There is something you've said that puzzles me - what do you like about Claude? I can think he gives youth a chance but not much else.
Giving youth a chance is an important thing, and a significant thing under that is the interest he apparently takes in the youth and reserve teams. I thought he was excellent at time of the crash as well; very stoic and together, very much what was needed. He seems to be able to cope with the pressure of management without losing his composure and is a fine representative for the club that way. I agree with the way he wants more possession-based and game-controlling tactics as well, although there are other aspects that I think he has wrong. And of course having a manager who isn’t having public falling outs with his players, constantly demanding transfer funds or moaning about the club in some way is a good thing too.
Another major thing is that he appears to have a long term plan rather than having a mind for making short-term fixes. My issue is with the details of that long-term plan, because what he’s aiming for seems to me to be stuck behind the times. I’ve been talking about the lack of pressing a lot recently and I think that’s a big, gaping hole in his plans.
I agree with pretty much everything written in this thread. We’re all in danger of violently agreeing here!
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Giving youth a chance is an important thing, and a significant thing under that is the interest he apparently takes in the youth and reserve teams. I thought he was excellent at time of the crash as well; very stoic and together, very much what was needed. He seems to be able to cope with the pressure of management without losing his composure and is a fine representative for the club that way. I agree with the way he wants more possession-based and game-controlling tactics as well, although there are other aspects that I think he has wrong. And of course having a manager who isn’t having public falling outs with his players, constantly demanding transfer funds or moaning about the club in some way is a good thing too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All managers have plans that they want the players to implement problem is our managers plans changes just like his team about every 45 minutes.
Dunge - I don't see anything much to disagree about. We should certainly press more than we do. I don't think trying to be like Man City (without the pressing) is likely to work for us if that's what he's doing, we haven't got/won't have the quality of player across the team to do that.
A mixture of a fast counter attacking capability with a bit more nouse about breaking teams down who sit back would be a good balance for me.
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anything It was all a laugh, you’re literally the only poster who has taken it seriously and starting booting people off match threads. Those guys are ace- you’re a fackwit
My worry is if we do stick with Claude to the end of the season and IF we avoid relegation, then Maguire & Chilwell won't be tempted to stay any longer and their loss would be a much bigger blow than Kante & Mahrez leaving. Surely Top won't be swayed by sentiment and will be strong enough to make a change??
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anythingIt was all a laugh, you’re literally the only poster who has taken it seriously and starting booting people off match threads. Those guys are ace- you’re a fackwit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anything
Yet your all over our board when we lose
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anythingIt was all a laugh, you’re literally the only poster who has taken it seriously and starting booting people off match threads. Those guys are ace- you’re a fackwit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anything
Yet your all over our board when we lose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m all over your board when you win in fairness. I think you’ve taken it all a bit too seriously pal. Makes sense given that you can’t take a bit of wumming and kick people off match threads.
comment by I remember Albert Cheeseborough"Super Sub" (U1481)
posted 50 minutes ago
My worry is if we do stick with Claude to the end of the season and IF we avoid relegation, then Maguire & Chilwell won't be tempted to stay any longer and their loss would be a much bigger blow than Kante & Mahrez leaving. Surely Top won't be swayed by sentiment and will be strong enough to make a change??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly what will happen. It’s all well having a long term project but if takes too long then you lose your best players and have to start again. This is spot on
Sign in if you want to comment
Pitiful
Page 2 of 2
posted on 15/12/18
I know that we've moved away from a game based on solid defence and fast counter attacking football. I've never asked this question before but I'm going to now. Why?
It won us the League.
It seems to suit Atletico as a permanent method.
Liverpool are using it to make a decent shot at winning the League.
Note I'm not saying we'd be competing at the top, nor that we wouldn't have to improve against teams who sat back against us - but that's what I assume BS is talking about by getting better players - we could have built on what we had.
Irritatingly we can still see it occasionally in flashes so it hasn't been completely erased.
posted on 15/12/18
Nuneaton - I was making this argument two years ago. Unfortunately what happened is that the club panicked. We had a bad reaction to winning the title, made some poor transfer decisions and then made some bad decisions - culminating in the myth that we couldn’t continue with the philosiphy that had brought so much success. So we went the other way entirely
The thinking was that teams had worked us out. It was over - you couldn’t play that way anymore, it was nonsense, what we needed was to sign better players - not throw everything Pearson, Walsh and Ranieri had built.
Sadly those days aren’t coming back and as Stoke started to find out - when you move away from who you really are. It usually ends badly
posted on 15/12/18
Foxello - one thing I’d put to you is this: If Puel has plans that he wants his players to implement, but that those players cannot do so, then actually Puel himself has the wrong ideas. To give an extreme example, with the best will in the world, you can’t make Whitby Town play like Barcelona, and instructing them to play as such is the wrong idea. If Puel has ideas of how to play but his players aren’t getting it, maybe his ideas can’t be implemented with the quality of players we can afford/attract.
I don’t fall into the camp of wanting him fired ASAP, but I can’t buy into the idea of him being some genius whose tactical genius is being ruined by idiot players. There are some things about Puel that I like, but I think there are some plans he has fundamentally wrong.
posted on 15/12/18
Interesting post Dunge. There is something you've said that puzzles me - what do you like about Claude? I can think he gives youth a chance but not much else.
posted on 15/12/18
Giving youth a chance is an important thing, and a significant thing under that is the interest he apparently takes in the youth and reserve teams. I thought he was excellent at time of the crash as well; very stoic and together, very much what was needed. He seems to be able to cope with the pressure of management without losing his composure and is a fine representative for the club that way. I agree with the way he wants more possession-based and game-controlling tactics as well, although there are other aspects that I think he has wrong. And of course having a manager who isn’t having public falling outs with his players, constantly demanding transfer funds or moaning about the club in some way is a good thing too.
posted on 15/12/18
Another major thing is that he appears to have a long term plan rather than having a mind for making short-term fixes. My issue is with the details of that long-term plan, because what he’s aiming for seems to me to be stuck behind the times. I’ve been talking about the lack of pressing a lot recently and I think that’s a big, gaping hole in his plans.
posted on 15/12/18
I agree with pretty much everything written in this thread. We’re all in danger of violently agreeing here!
posted on 16/12/18
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Giving youth a chance is an important thing, and a significant thing under that is the interest he apparently takes in the youth and reserve teams. I thought he was excellent at time of the crash as well; very stoic and together, very much what was needed. He seems to be able to cope with the pressure of management without losing his composure and is a fine representative for the club that way. I agree with the way he wants more possession-based and game-controlling tactics as well, although there are other aspects that I think he has wrong. And of course having a manager who isn’t having public falling outs with his players, constantly demanding transfer funds or moaning about the club in some way is a good thing too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All managers have plans that they want the players to implement problem is our managers plans changes just like his team about every 45 minutes.
posted on 16/12/18
Dunge - I don't see anything much to disagree about. We should certainly press more than we do. I don't think trying to be like Man City (without the pressing) is likely to work for us if that's what he's doing, we haven't got/won't have the quality of player across the team to do that.
A mixture of a fast counter attacking capability with a bit more nouse about breaking teams down who sit back would be a good balance for me.
posted on 16/12/18
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
posted on 16/12/18
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
posted on 16/12/18
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
posted on 16/12/18
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anything It was all a laugh, you’re literally the only poster who has taken it seriously and starting booting people off match threads. Those guys are ace- you’re a fackwit
posted on 16/12/18
My worry is if we do stick with Claude to the end of the season and IF we avoid relegation, then Maguire & Chilwell won't be tempted to stay any longer and their loss would be a much bigger blow than Kante & Mahrez leaving. Surely Top won't be swayed by sentiment and will be strong enough to make a change??
posted on 16/12/18
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anythingIt was all a laugh, you’re literally the only poster who has taken it seriously and starting booting people off match threads. Those guys are ace- you’re a fackwit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anything
Yet your all over our board when we lose
posted on 16/12/18
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Sir Halfy ...Premier League Thread Master (U11570)
posted 14 hours, 1 minute ago
Comment deleted by Article Creator
I have absolutely no problem with Leicester, but since you was all over my thread telling everyone how wolves were going to struggle.....I can’t help but come this board
COMB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was banter mate. Cinci and Tamwolf take it and give it, you just kick people off your match threads! Poor form. Wolves won’t struggle, I never thought they would, but that wasn’t the point!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
......I’ve no idea what Cinci did to you but I really wish I did
Enjoy the relegation battle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anythingIt was all a laugh, you’re literally the only poster who has taken it seriously and starting booting people off match threads. Those guys are ace- you’re a fackwit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn’t do anything
Yet your all over our board when we lose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m all over your board when you win in fairness. I think you’ve taken it all a bit too seriously pal. Makes sense given that you can’t take a bit of wumming and kick people off match threads.
posted on 16/12/18
comment by I remember Albert Cheeseborough"Super Sub" (U1481)
posted 50 minutes ago
My worry is if we do stick with Claude to the end of the season and IF we avoid relegation, then Maguire & Chilwell won't be tempted to stay any longer and their loss would be a much bigger blow than Kante & Mahrez leaving. Surely Top won't be swayed by sentiment and will be strong enough to make a change??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly what will happen. It’s all well having a long term project but if takes too long then you lose your best players and have to start again. This is spot on
Page 2 of 2