comment by wolfieintheSunshineState (U16306)
posted about an hour ago
Body wasn't unlucky at all. He knew what he was doing and got punished for it. He may well have got part of the ball, but to lunge in from a distance, both feet ff the ground and follow through the way he did, is dangerous.
Clattenberg can sugar coat it all he likes, but the ref on the night got it right. Very similar tackle that got Batth sent off a few years back.
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He didn't get part of the ball, he got all of the ball. I get that you think it is a red based on the follow through and speed of the tackle; but first you have started he didn't get the ball which has now changed to he only got part of it. You have stated he knew what he was doing as if there was malice in it. Clattenburg is now sugar coating things.
None of these things are true. Facts are Boly won the ball. There was no malice in the tackle. The pace and manner with which he tackled gave the ref a decision to make. Clattenburg has tried to clarify the rules which make it not a red card, unless the ref decides Boly is endangering an opponent.
The thing that annoys me most is the inconsistency. Kompany, Van Dijk and Pogba have all committed similar fouls in recent months and only received a yellow. Makes you wonder whether Boly would have been carded differently if he was a bigger name.
Tamwolf, Boly clearly only had eyes for the ball, and there is no doubt he got all of the ball. But you simply can't lunge in like that.
Sure some refs might only give a yellow, but you can't argue with the red either, one things for sure we would lose any appeal, so we can hardly blame the ref.
The penalty however was laughable.
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted about an hour ago
Tamwolf, Boly clearly only had eyes for the ball, and there is no doubt he got all of the ball. But you simply can't lunge in like that.
Sure some refs might only give a yellow, but you can't argue with the red either, one things for sure we would lose any appeal, so we can hardly blame the ref.
The penalty however was laughable.
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I agree we can't complain about the red card. That was pretty much what I said. We can complain about the consistency of the referees though. There are numerous examples of similar tackles only receiving yellow cards from the top teams.
I disagree on the penalty though. Sterling was getting to the ball, Bennett put his leg across and brought him down. Might seem soft to us, but if it was the other way round we'd be screaming for it.
Hi All - I haven't commented on here for a number of years now, but am a regular viewer. The Boly red card though has stirred me to take to the keyboard...
For me the referee last night made a really poor decision, which ruined a competitive game that a lot of paying punters were interested in seeing. I'm sure he's following instructions, but we've seen loads of examples of tackles like this being harshly punished, and for me it's out of touch.
I understand the whole "endangering the player" concept also, but I think this is not being considered properly. Taking last night's example:
Boly and B. Silva are both running to the ball, but Boly is clearly getting there first every time (as evidenced by every man and his dog saying that Boly doesn't need to dive in).
Boly is concerned that if he runs and plays the ball normally, Silva will clatter him late and potentially injure him.
So in that split second, Boly slides in to get to the ball even earlier, and also to be lower to the ground to reduce the risk of getting injured.
Silva chooses not to pull out of the tackle despite always being second to the ball (he chooses to put himself in danger)
Boly catches Silva on the follow through having clearly tackled the ball, when Silva runs into his path.
For me (waiting for the barrage) this is not even a foul by Boly, let alone a red card. In fact, Silva gets there second having made the decision to pursue a challenge he could never win, and the foul should be given against Silva.
I agree with making sure players are protected from unnecessary injuries, but this is an example where Silva has made a conscious decision to go into a tackle he can't win, so doesn't fall into that category of "endangering the player" for me.
I agree with where you are coming from Ainsdale. Silva was indeed never going to win that ball but somehow due to the daft rules of today he and city benefit massively from an opposition player winning the ball first. Totally wrong in my opinion.
Bottom line to me is that refs should be making every effort to keep games competitive and 11 v 11 and that a non malicious tackle should never be a red card
The rules today are daft. I actually thought Boly's and Kompany's tackles were both good tackles. You see tackles like that all the time in amateur football and everyone just gets on with it.
Unfortunately in today's rules at the top levels, if you go in to a tackle in that fashion you give the ref a decision to make.
There are two separate discussion to be had on this. One about whether it should be a red card and about consistency of the refs. Then another about whether the rules are actually correct or a load of nonsense.
I think there is another factor at play with Boly's tackle that no-one has yet mentioned. Yes the ref has a decision to make and he only gets to see it once but how much influence did Bernardo Silva's Oscar winning performance have on the ref? Rolling around as though he had trodden on a land mine when clearly he sustained no injury whatsoever, would make up the mind of any ref naive enough to fall for it.
Perhaps Pep has increased his coaching staff to include a dirty tricks coach who schools the players in the ways to influence refereeing decisions. We certainly witnessed two fine examples last night.
One of those things though now gem and in the penalty area that kind of deception is basically applauded now.
Take Sterling yesterday, he was touched a wee bit but he had every intention of going down regardless and he was never ever going to score from that move but all commentators and pundits do is call it 'clever'.
We can agree/disagree on here all day long as to whether it was a red card or not, but the fact remains, Boly will miss 3 matches because of an reckless, studs showing challenge.
Really don’t think there is anything controversial here. Boly dived into the tackle, and caught the player on the follow through. A red card is always a possibility from those kind of challenges nowadays. And Silva was unquestionably caught and from a big guy like Boly it would have been painful. Don’t think he feigned the injury at all.
And Bennett caught Sterling and knocked him off balance. Stonewall pen and no dive in my mind
I thought it was a penalty yesterday and claims it should have been are being made by people wearing old gold tinted specs.
Bennett was very poor in that situation that is for sure, made it very easy for Sterling to get by him
Still no one else has commented on Fernandiho assault on Jota.
Take another look and see if you agree with me that if that had been a Wolves player it would have been a red card not yellow.
I think the rule about diving in with a challenge is correct.
Lunging in can and has ruined careers, So for me the rule is correct in the professional game.
Oh and I still don't agree with the penalty.
I do think there is an argument for saying Boly was unlucky, as I said last night on here, and ainsdale has explained why. But like it or not, the argument that the tackler got to the ball first no longer seems to hold water. If the challenge is deemed reckless red cards can be given.
I remember Karl Henry winning a tackle at Fulham and catching Kamara on the follow through and breaking his ankle. In the old days not even a foul. But Karl was penalised many times for those kind of tackles in the Premier League. MOTD crucified Henry around that time and McCarthy eventually had to tell him to cut it out of his game, and Karl was never as effective a player from that time on. It’s a different game now and some good old fashioned tacklers are no longer of any value, with the argument promoted by Wenger amongst others that the talented players must be protected
Just use video for any big decision and we will eliminate the doubt in tackles like this. Below the ankle is a yellow card.
Regardless of the 2 referee decisions (I agree with both), to put last night's score in context all of the following opposition sides played the full 90 minutes with 11 men:
MC - Huddersfield 6-1
Cardiff - MC - 0-5
MC - Burnley 5-0
MC - Southampton 6-1
West Ham - MC 0-4
one or two other 3-0s as well
Actually though last night was one of our better performances overall.
Scored their 99th goal of the season as well
Yes, and all the pundits and commentators were eagerly awaiting the 100th - never mind.
Not sure how you could call that one of our better performances wulfrun. We barely got a kick of the ball for long spells, didn’t have a single shot on target and probably wouldn’t have scored if we had played all night. After the sending off it was just a matter of how many we lost by
Sick of this now. As Nuno says, a match to forget and concentrate on the next one.
Match preview thread tomorrow.
comment by bostonwolf (U17353)
posted about an hour ago
Still no one else has commented on Fernandiho assault on Jota.
Take another look and see if you agree with me that if that had been a Wolves player it would have been a red card not yellow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure it would have been. There were men covering and although it was cynical, it wasn’t a red card.
Those sort of deliberate fouls happen every week in some of the games and only ever get yellows.
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posted on 15/1/19
comment by wolfieintheSunshineState (U16306)
posted about an hour ago
Body wasn't unlucky at all. He knew what he was doing and got punished for it. He may well have got part of the ball, but to lunge in from a distance, both feet ff the ground and follow through the way he did, is dangerous.
Clattenberg can sugar coat it all he likes, but the ref on the night got it right. Very similar tackle that got Batth sent off a few years back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't get part of the ball, he got all of the ball. I get that you think it is a red based on the follow through and speed of the tackle; but first you have started he didn't get the ball which has now changed to he only got part of it. You have stated he knew what he was doing as if there was malice in it. Clattenburg is now sugar coating things.
None of these things are true. Facts are Boly won the ball. There was no malice in the tackle. The pace and manner with which he tackled gave the ref a decision to make. Clattenburg has tried to clarify the rules which make it not a red card, unless the ref decides Boly is endangering an opponent.
The thing that annoys me most is the inconsistency. Kompany, Van Dijk and Pogba have all committed similar fouls in recent months and only received a yellow. Makes you wonder whether Boly would have been carded differently if he was a bigger name.
posted on 15/1/19
Tamwolf, Boly clearly only had eyes for the ball, and there is no doubt he got all of the ball. But you simply can't lunge in like that.
Sure some refs might only give a yellow, but you can't argue with the red either, one things for sure we would lose any appeal, so we can hardly blame the ref.
The penalty however was laughable.
posted on 15/1/19
comment by Amigawolf no longer MIA (U18508)
posted about an hour ago
Tamwolf, Boly clearly only had eyes for the ball, and there is no doubt he got all of the ball. But you simply can't lunge in like that.
Sure some refs might only give a yellow, but you can't argue with the red either, one things for sure we would lose any appeal, so we can hardly blame the ref.
The penalty however was laughable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we can't complain about the red card. That was pretty much what I said. We can complain about the consistency of the referees though. There are numerous examples of similar tackles only receiving yellow cards from the top teams.
I disagree on the penalty though. Sterling was getting to the ball, Bennett put his leg across and brought him down. Might seem soft to us, but if it was the other way round we'd be screaming for it.
posted on 15/1/19
Hi All - I haven't commented on here for a number of years now, but am a regular viewer. The Boly red card though has stirred me to take to the keyboard...
For me the referee last night made a really poor decision, which ruined a competitive game that a lot of paying punters were interested in seeing. I'm sure he's following instructions, but we've seen loads of examples of tackles like this being harshly punished, and for me it's out of touch.
I understand the whole "endangering the player" concept also, but I think this is not being considered properly. Taking last night's example:
Boly and B. Silva are both running to the ball, but Boly is clearly getting there first every time (as evidenced by every man and his dog saying that Boly doesn't need to dive in).
Boly is concerned that if he runs and plays the ball normally, Silva will clatter him late and potentially injure him.
So in that split second, Boly slides in to get to the ball even earlier, and also to be lower to the ground to reduce the risk of getting injured.
Silva chooses not to pull out of the tackle despite always being second to the ball (he chooses to put himself in danger)
Boly catches Silva on the follow through having clearly tackled the ball, when Silva runs into his path.
For me (waiting for the barrage) this is not even a foul by Boly, let alone a red card. In fact, Silva gets there second having made the decision to pursue a challenge he could never win, and the foul should be given against Silva.
I agree with making sure players are protected from unnecessary injuries, but this is an example where Silva has made a conscious decision to go into a tackle he can't win, so doesn't fall into that category of "endangering the player" for me.
posted on 15/1/19
I agree with where you are coming from Ainsdale. Silva was indeed never going to win that ball but somehow due to the daft rules of today he and city benefit massively from an opposition player winning the ball first. Totally wrong in my opinion.
posted on 15/1/19
Bottom line to me is that refs should be making every effort to keep games competitive and 11 v 11 and that a non malicious tackle should never be a red card
posted on 15/1/19
The rules today are daft. I actually thought Boly's and Kompany's tackles were both good tackles. You see tackles like that all the time in amateur football and everyone just gets on with it.
Unfortunately in today's rules at the top levels, if you go in to a tackle in that fashion you give the ref a decision to make.
There are two separate discussion to be had on this. One about whether it should be a red card and about consistency of the refs. Then another about whether the rules are actually correct or a load of nonsense.
posted on 15/1/19
I think there is another factor at play with Boly's tackle that no-one has yet mentioned. Yes the ref has a decision to make and he only gets to see it once but how much influence did Bernardo Silva's Oscar winning performance have on the ref? Rolling around as though he had trodden on a land mine when clearly he sustained no injury whatsoever, would make up the mind of any ref naive enough to fall for it.
posted on 15/1/19
Perhaps Pep has increased his coaching staff to include a dirty tricks coach who schools the players in the ways to influence refereeing decisions. We certainly witnessed two fine examples last night.
posted on 15/1/19
One of those things though now gem and in the penalty area that kind of deception is basically applauded now.
Take Sterling yesterday, he was touched a wee bit but he had every intention of going down regardless and he was never ever going to score from that move but all commentators and pundits do is call it 'clever'.
posted on 15/1/19
We can agree/disagree on here all day long as to whether it was a red card or not, but the fact remains, Boly will miss 3 matches because of an reckless, studs showing challenge.
posted on 15/1/19
Really don’t think there is anything controversial here. Boly dived into the tackle, and caught the player on the follow through. A red card is always a possibility from those kind of challenges nowadays. And Silva was unquestionably caught and from a big guy like Boly it would have been painful. Don’t think he feigned the injury at all.
And Bennett caught Sterling and knocked him off balance. Stonewall pen and no dive in my mind
posted on 15/1/19
I thought it was a penalty yesterday and claims it should have been are being made by people wearing old gold tinted specs.
posted on 15/1/19
Bennett was very poor in that situation that is for sure, made it very easy for Sterling to get by him
posted on 15/1/19
Still no one else has commented on Fernandiho assault on Jota.
Take another look and see if you agree with me that if that had been a Wolves player it would have been a red card not yellow.
posted on 15/1/19
I think the rule about diving in with a challenge is correct.
Lunging in can and has ruined careers, So for me the rule is correct in the professional game.
Oh and I still don't agree with the penalty.
posted on 15/1/19
I do think there is an argument for saying Boly was unlucky, as I said last night on here, and ainsdale has explained why. But like it or not, the argument that the tackler got to the ball first no longer seems to hold water. If the challenge is deemed reckless red cards can be given.
I remember Karl Henry winning a tackle at Fulham and catching Kamara on the follow through and breaking his ankle. In the old days not even a foul. But Karl was penalised many times for those kind of tackles in the Premier League. MOTD crucified Henry around that time and McCarthy eventually had to tell him to cut it out of his game, and Karl was never as effective a player from that time on. It’s a different game now and some good old fashioned tacklers are no longer of any value, with the argument promoted by Wenger amongst others that the talented players must be protected
posted on 15/1/19
Just use video for any big decision and we will eliminate the doubt in tackles like this. Below the ankle is a yellow card.
posted on 15/1/19
Regardless of the 2 referee decisions (I agree with both), to put last night's score in context all of the following opposition sides played the full 90 minutes with 11 men:
MC - Huddersfield 6-1
Cardiff - MC - 0-5
MC - Burnley 5-0
MC - Southampton 6-1
West Ham - MC 0-4
one or two other 3-0s as well
Actually though last night was one of our better performances overall.
posted on 15/1/19
Scored their 99th goal of the season as well
posted on 15/1/19
Yes, and all the pundits and commentators were eagerly awaiting the 100th - never mind.
posted on 15/1/19
Not sure how you could call that one of our better performances wulfrun. We barely got a kick of the ball for long spells, didn’t have a single shot on target and probably wouldn’t have scored if we had played all night. After the sending off it was just a matter of how many we lost by
posted on 15/1/19
Sick of this now. As Nuno says, a match to forget and concentrate on the next one.
Match preview thread tomorrow.
posted on 15/1/19
comment by bostonwolf (U17353)
posted about an hour ago
Still no one else has commented on Fernandiho assault on Jota.
Take another look and see if you agree with me that if that had been a Wolves player it would have been a red card not yellow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure it would have been. There were men covering and although it was cynical, it wasn’t a red card.
Those sort of deliberate fouls happen every week in some of the games and only ever get yellows.
posted on 15/1/19
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