comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 49 minutes ago
Why would the EU make it easy to leave the EU for the UK? The leave camp promised that they'd get a good a deal as If they were still in it.
Any anyone wanting to leave will get a reality check. The UK has not negotiable power and any deals with the US or China would be very bad for us. The US want us to lower our standards, privatise the NHS and worse. Look into the Bolton fella and you'll get a better idea of what they want.
China would also love it if we also became closer. They want to replace US as the world's super power and everything they do and the support their companies get is to that end.
We have a small population with little resources to complete and get a good deal and the MPswe have will and do sell out our country for money.
We're better off in the EU, despite its flaws. At least we know where we stand
When we leave we'll become a vassal state of a super power. Right now we can. Ask how high we should jump when we're told to jump. Once we go into a deal with these nations, we'll jump when we're told to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And yet we are what the 7th largest economy in the world? We import a lot more than we export. You honestly believe no one would want a piece of our pie? Why do you think the eu want us to deal and dont want a no deal? Out the kindess of their heart trying to stop us being ruined? No its because money talks and they want to keep their share of what we offer. Otherwise theyd have refused any deal long ago.
Makes me laugh the absolute morons who think this country couldnt survive and eventually strive, theres far smaller economies than outs that do it. The issue is the government, no one in it is capable and even if they were they arent willing to, May would rather take a worse deal with the eu than remaining just to remain as tied n close as possible probably intentional savotage.
The government is pathetic and weak lets be honest, if it had a backbone companies like amazon etc wouldnt be taking the absolute mickey when it comes to tax etc. Theyd change the laws and close the loop holes and bin them off refused them access to the uk market and encouraged maybe even funded a local business to take up their lucrative market shares ones that will pay their way.
But nah theyd rather focus on cuts to councils or the disabled etc to cover for it
People who think this country couldnt survive and eventually strive on its own make me laugh. That said even if i wanted brexit (i didnt) i would never have voted for it because i have zero faith in our government or any of the parties to lead us and deliver what would be required.
The current mess is down to our politics, and even still we cant place full blame at those who voted to leave. They were afterall lied to (such a thing should never have been put to public vote in the first place) and the people who eventually lead brexit did everything they could to remain (probably intentional sabotage on Mays part) as much in the eu as they possibly could even trying to sneak in a deal that would put us in a worse position than we’d be in if we called the whole thing off. Whilst they did this those s who lied to the nation sat back and offered literally fack all constructive whilst this was happening.
Anyway yeah, the best case scenario is its called off then everyone of the s involved fired stripped of everything they own and deported, starting with Cameron and May.
Now we hear that people want another referendum on THE DEAL .....OK we take the 10 major points of the deal, give voters a multiple choice of say 4 options, and LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.
So the people decide the deal, we take it to EU who say "NON", where does that leave us ? Or maybe all 27 EU member states should have a referendum to decide whether to accept our deal or not.
We voted our government in to decide things for us... that's how it works. For good or bad.
This whole unholy mess is caused by MP'S who havn't got the guts to be honest and are voting down ANY DEAL to deny the will of the people.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 minute ago
Michael Portillo put it perfectly when he said that we’ve been given a remainers Brexit and asked to back it or potentially stay in.
It’s remain by design.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully expected this argument.
Let’s be honest, does a ‘brexiteer’s brexit’ actually exist, or is it a pipe dream?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve been hoodwinked into believing that Brexit has different forms.
A deal has different forms yes but Brexit isn’t the deal. Brexit is merely leaving the institutions of the European Union. There’s no ambiguity in that - it only exists in the eyes of those who hope to thwart it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you go back and read what the leave campaign promises Brexit would look like, which has turned out to be complete lies.
Brexit does have various forms and what you want is not necessarily the same as what you can have, as it requires agreement from the EU.
Unless you voted for a no deal, which the leave campaign was not campaigning for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you separate anecdote from facts and legality.
People couldn’t promise anything. Their job was to persuade voters that we could achieve X if we leave.
As for requiring agreement from the EU - that’s not true. We could leave with or without their blessing. The key was having a better negotiation stance that didn’t put leaving the institutions up as bargaining chips. They were the end goal. That’s what happens when a remainer leads the process.
As for whether I voted for no deal - I didn’t vote for any deal. I voted to leave the EU irrespective of a deal. That’s also, the decision our MPs took when they triggered A50 - but have since reneged.
When Liam Fox said that a deal would be easy - he was absolutely correct. The infrastructure was all there. The 2 things that prevented a good deal were:
A) A Parliament that didn’t want to leave
B) A Union that wanted to punish anyone that dared tried
That doesn’t make the deal difficult, it merely makes those responsible for striking it anti-democratic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
If you believe it is actually possible but the way the process has been managed has prevented that from happening then I suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about. We now know the extent of the issue in NI and we know that the leave campaign were wrong.
I don’t really care what you voted for. I’m telling you, for a fact, that a lot of people did vote for something that they can’t havs. The leave campaign was not for a no deal. I can show you quotes to prove that.
So the situation remains - it is entirely democratic to consider asking people, now they are in possession of facts rather than hypothetical posturing, do they still want to move forward.
Just because a certain element of idiots are happy with a no deal scenario does not mean that the country would be happy to vote for it so we need to be sure because it’s absolutely not whet was voted for in the referendum.
These idiots are facking us up.
Its very simple. A second referendum should be easy to push through. It won't be undemocratic, the brexiteers are lying again.
Legally speaking, the first referendum was the most undemocratic event ever. It cannot he denied that there was a campaign of lies and propaganda by one side of the referendum.
There was no real exit strategy and basically nothing about brexit is the way it was made out to be. They should take this through a judicial process and have the first referendum declared a nullity due to the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation that was prevalent at the time.
Should be easy enough to prove. A lot of brexiteers have had the bravery to admit they were duped and based their decisions on falsehoods.
The people were hypnotised by a fake illusion of a utopia which is could turn into a dystopia
If any poll winner cannot thereafter carry out the mandate given them by the people, then the said poll winner must resign their cause and a new course chartered after that.
If lies, deception and false promises is democracy then another referendum would be even more democratic, no?
Just my view.
These idiots are facking us up.
Its very simple. A second referendum should be easy to push through. It won't be undemocratic, the brexiteers are lying again.
Legally speaking, the first referendum was the most undemocratic event ever. It cannot he denied that there was a campaign of lies and propaganda by one side of the referendum.
There was no real exit strategy and basically nothing about brexit is the way it was made out to be. They should take this through a judicial process and have the first referendum declared a nullity due to the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation that was prevalent at the time.
Should be easy enough to prove. A lot of brexiteers have had the bravery to admit they were duped and based their decisions on falsehoods.
The people were hypnotised by a fake illusion of a utopia which is could turn into a dystopia
If any poll winner cannot thereafter carry out the mandate given them by the people, then the said poll winner must resign their cause and a new course chartered after that.
If lies, deception and false promises is democracy then another referendum would be even more democratic, no?
Just my view.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a vote for Brexit was simple, it was a vote for:
1. Remove the EU from creating our laws for us.
2. Retake control over who has the right to reside in the UK.
3. leave the customs union so we can negotiate our OWN trade deals.
so which of those can't be achieved? it seems to me that a no-deal Brexit achieves all of those very easily.
this is probably where you say the leave campaign promised access to the single market, we'll yep, we can still have that easily. it's called a trade deal.
the EU says no single market without freedom of movement.
that's bull5h1t, it's just a soundbite, an irrelevant, meaningless phrase that has no basis in reality.
is the EU as it stands, a single market? yes.
is japan part of the EU? is the USA? or china? no.
do they export goods to the EU? yes.
ergo, they have single market access.
do they have to allow anyone from the eu to live in their countries? no.
so is that single market access without freedom of movement. yes.
therefore single market access is easily accessible without freedom of movement. it just means that the terms of access are negotiable, ie, a trade deal.
the issue is that the eu wants to punish us for trying to leave, to prevent other countries choosing to as well. (very democratic of them.) the problem they have is the harder they punish us, the bigger detrimental effect it has on them as we well.
also, the remainers will say we've already started seeing the effects of Brexit, and that it'll get worse.
well, the remainers were telling us the economy would implode if we voted leave, it didn't, it barely even flinched. and most of what we're seeing now is nothing to do with Brexit, but more the effects of 10 years of this governments austerity policies.
comment by ®∆¢£¥ (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
These idiots are facking us up.
Its very simple. A second referendum should be easy to push through. It won't be undemocratic, the brexiteers are lying again.
Legally speaking, the first referendum was the most undemocratic event ever. It cannot he denied that there was a campaign of lies and propaganda by one side of the referendum.
There was no real exit strategy and basically nothing about brexit is the way it was made out to be. They should take this through a judicial process and have the first referendum declared a nullity due to the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation that was prevalent at the time.
Should be easy enough to prove. A lot of brexiteers have had the bravery to admit they were duped and based their decisions on falsehoods.
The people were hypnotised by a fake illusion of a utopia which is could turn into a dystopia
If any poll winner cannot thereafter carry out the mandate given them by the people, then the said poll winner must resign their cause and a new course chartered after that.
If lies, deception and false promises is democracy then another referendum would be even more democratic, no?
Just my view.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you're spot on!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by 19th title coming soon. (U12879)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a vote for Brexit was simple, it was a vote for:
1. Remove the EU from creating our laws for us.
2. Retake control over who has the right to reside in the UK.
3. leave the customs union so we can negotiate our OWN trade deals.
so which of those can't be achieved? it seems to me that a no-deal Brexit achieves all of those very easily.
this is probably where you say the leave campaign promised access to the single market, we'll yep, we can still have that easily. it's called a trade deal.
the EU says no single market without freedom of movement.
that's bull5h1t, it's just a soundbite, an irrelevant, meaningless phrase that has no basis in reality.
is the EU as it stands, a single market? yes.
is japan part of the EU? is the USA? or china? no.
do they export goods to the EU? yes.
ergo, they have single market access.
do they have to allow anyone from the eu to live in their countries? no.
so is that single market access without freedom of movement. yes.
therefore single market access is easily accessible without freedom of movement. it just means that the terms of access are negotiable, ie, a trade deal.
the issue is that the eu wants to punish us for trying to leave, to prevent other countries choosing to as well. (very democratic of them.) the problem they have is the harder they punish us, the bigger detrimental effect it has on them as we well.
also, the remainers will say we've already started seeing the effects of Brexit, and that it'll get worse.
well, the remainers were telling us the economy would implode if we voted leave, it didn't, it barely even flinched. and most of what we're seeing now is nothing to do with Brexit, but more the effects of 10 years of this governments austerity policies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Points 1,2 and three are already possible within the EU
Immigration control or lack of it is down to OUR governments failings not the EU . I’ve even heard people blame austerity on the EU , said all along where swinging at the wrong target . People say we are the 5th , 6th or 7th ( depends on who you ask ) richest country in the world , what the Hell do we do with all this wealth , cause it isn’t trickling down .
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 minute ago
Michael Portillo put it perfectly when he said that we’ve been given a remainers Brexit and asked to back it or potentially stay in.
It’s remain by design.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully expected this argument.
Let’s be honest, does a ‘brexiteer’s brexit’ actually exist, or is it a pipe dream?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve been hoodwinked into believing that Brexit has different forms.
A deal has different forms yes but Brexit isn’t the deal. Brexit is merely leaving the institutions of the European Union. There’s no ambiguity in that - it only exists in the eyes of those who hope to thwart it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you go back and read what the leave campaign promises Brexit would look like, which has turned out to be complete lies.
Brexit does have various forms and what you want is not necessarily the same as what you can have, as it requires agreement from the EU.
Unless you voted for a no deal, which the leave campaign was not campaigning for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you separate anecdote from facts and legality.
People couldn’t promise anything. Their job was to persuade voters that we could achieve X if we leave.
As for requiring agreement from the EU - that’s not true. We could leave with or without their blessing. The key was having a better negotiation stance that didn’t put leaving the institutions up as bargaining chips. They were the end goal. That’s what happens when a remainer leads the process.
As for whether I voted for no deal - I didn’t vote for any deal. I voted to leave the EU irrespective of a deal. That’s also, the decision our MPs took when they triggered A50 - but have since reneged.
When Liam Fox said that a deal would be easy - he was absolutely correct. The infrastructure was all there. The 2 things that prevented a good deal were:
A) A Parliament that didn’t want to leave
B) A Union that wanted to punish anyone that dared tried
That doesn’t make the deal difficult, it merely makes those responsible for striking it anti-democratic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
If you believe it is actually possible but the way the process has been managed has prevented that from happening then I suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about. We now know the extent of the issue in NI and we know that the leave campaign were wrong.
I don’t really care what you voted for. I’m telling you, for a fact, that a lot of people did vote for something that they can’t havs. The leave campaign was not for a no deal. I can show you quotes to prove that.
So the situation remains - it is entirely democratic to consider asking people, now they are in possession of facts rather than hypothetical posturing, do they still want to move forward.
Just because a certain element of idiots are happy with a no deal scenario does not mean that the country would be happy to vote for it so we need to be sure because it’s absolutely not whet was voted for in the referendum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply from someone with facts 👍
I must emphasise that people who say nonchalantly that it’s not important to negotiate a deal and that we can leave with a two finger salute to the EU and without a mutual agreement, are the ones that want a bleak and dangerously unsustainable future for this country.
We can’t just leave and cut this country’s economical ties with EU and think we won’t suffer extensively?
We need cool heads and a better negotiator do we can still leave the EU but with mutual benefits and thus the future for children and their children are not harmed.
The funniest thing is that the hardcore brexiteerswjony admit it but they’ve been lied to on a massive scale bigger than any April fools ever done!!
Lies that were spread on buses with big massive letters and which convinced them these were true just because enough politicians repeated them constantly .
Oldest trick in the book and yet gullible few fell for it.
Like someone told me, we should wait another ten years when all those bitter brexiteers will die and then go back to EU.
👍
This isn’t about leaving or remaining anymore, it’s about Theresa May’s ego, and her wanting to be written into the annals of history.
She talks about fullfiling ‘the will of the people’ but is trying to force through a deal that no one voted in the referendum for.
Three years on from that, the 17, 16 and 15 year olds from 2016 would now be eligible to have a say about their futures.
Any People’s Vote would now quite comfortably see the UK remain.
The will of the people...
Typical hypocritical those who voted to leave!
They were shouting we don't need EU and once the referendum voting finished, the Same people who voted for Brexit were the first ones to apply for Irish passports so they can travel within EU freely?
Hypocrites!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by 19th title coming soon. (U12879)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a vote for Brexit was simple, it was a vote for:
1. Remove the EU from creating our laws for us.
2. Retake control over who has the right to reside in the UK.
3. leave the customs union so we can negotiate our OWN trade deals.
so which of those can't be achieved? it seems to me that a no-deal Brexit achieves all of those very easily.
this is probably where you say the leave campaign promised access to the single market, we'll yep, we can still have that easily. it's called a trade deal.
the EU says no single market without freedom of movement.
that's bull5h1t, it's just a soundbite, an irrelevant, meaningless phrase that has no basis in reality.
is the EU as it stands, a single market? yes.
is japan part of the EU? is the USA? or china? no.
do they export goods to the EU? yes.
ergo, they have single market access.
do they have to allow anyone from the eu to live in their countries? no.
so is that single market access without freedom of movement. yes.
therefore single market access is easily accessible without freedom of movement. it just means that the terms of access are negotiable, ie, a trade deal.
the issue is that the eu wants to punish us for trying to leave, to prevent other countries choosing to as well. (very democratic of them.) the problem they have is the harder they punish us, the bigger detrimental effect it has on them as we well.
also, the remainers will say we've already started seeing the effects of Brexit, and that it'll get worse.
well, the remainers were telling us the economy would implode if we voted leave, it didn't, it barely even flinched. and most of what we're seeing now is nothing to do with Brexit, but more the effects of 10 years of this governments austerity policies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice attempt at rewriting history there.
Leaving out all the things that were promised and can’t be delivered.
Great work, very Brexit.
comment by TTliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
Typical hypocritical those who voted to leave!
They were shouting we don't need EU and once the referendum voting finished, the Same people who voted for Brexit were the first ones to apply for Irish passports so they can travel within EU freely?
Hypocrites!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure that's the remainers who have this delusional "citizens of Europe" mentality despite the fact the EU was never meant to be that when we joined in 1973. Also I wouldn't make any moral arguments at the moment if I were you seeing as you were wishing death on people who have a different opinion to you a few posts ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wait a minute!
So I mentioned someone said something to me and then you make that into something I wished for?
Things don't seem to be right in your head if you make them up?
Citizens of Europe? Yet another crass that's just bs
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by TTliv87 (U11882)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Like someone told me, we should wait another ten years when all those bitter brexiteers will die and then go back to EU."
"Like someone told me, we should"
The way you wrote that says you agree with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Giving it the thumbs up at the end confirms it
I'm surprised that hogwash like "350m for the NHS if we exit Europe" actually works.
Who the fack still believes selling lines like that? In some ways people are no different to sheep.
Sign in if you want to comment
Anti Brexit protest London
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posted on 24/3/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 49 minutes ago
Why would the EU make it easy to leave the EU for the UK? The leave camp promised that they'd get a good a deal as If they were still in it.
Any anyone wanting to leave will get a reality check. The UK has not negotiable power and any deals with the US or China would be very bad for us. The US want us to lower our standards, privatise the NHS and worse. Look into the Bolton fella and you'll get a better idea of what they want.
China would also love it if we also became closer. They want to replace US as the world's super power and everything they do and the support their companies get is to that end.
We have a small population with little resources to complete and get a good deal and the MPswe have will and do sell out our country for money.
We're better off in the EU, despite its flaws. At least we know where we stand
When we leave we'll become a vassal state of a super power. Right now we can. Ask how high we should jump when we're told to jump. Once we go into a deal with these nations, we'll jump when we're told to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And yet we are what the 7th largest economy in the world? We import a lot more than we export. You honestly believe no one would want a piece of our pie? Why do you think the eu want us to deal and dont want a no deal? Out the kindess of their heart trying to stop us being ruined? No its because money talks and they want to keep their share of what we offer. Otherwise theyd have refused any deal long ago.
Makes me laugh the absolute morons who think this country couldnt survive and eventually strive, theres far smaller economies than outs that do it. The issue is the government, no one in it is capable and even if they were they arent willing to, May would rather take a worse deal with the eu than remaining just to remain as tied n close as possible probably intentional savotage.
posted on 24/3/19
The government is pathetic and weak lets be honest, if it had a backbone companies like amazon etc wouldnt be taking the absolute mickey when it comes to tax etc. Theyd change the laws and close the loop holes and bin them off refused them access to the uk market and encouraged maybe even funded a local business to take up their lucrative market shares ones that will pay their way.
But nah theyd rather focus on cuts to councils or the disabled etc to cover for it
posted on 24/3/19
People who think this country couldnt survive and eventually strive on its own make me laugh. That said even if i wanted brexit (i didnt) i would never have voted for it because i have zero faith in our government or any of the parties to lead us and deliver what would be required.
The current mess is down to our politics, and even still we cant place full blame at those who voted to leave. They were afterall lied to (such a thing should never have been put to public vote in the first place) and the people who eventually lead brexit did everything they could to remain (probably intentional sabotage on Mays part) as much in the eu as they possibly could even trying to sneak in a deal that would put us in a worse position than we’d be in if we called the whole thing off. Whilst they did this those s who lied to the nation sat back and offered literally fack all constructive whilst this was happening.
Anyway yeah, the best case scenario is its called off then everyone of the s involved fired stripped of everything they own and deported, starting with Cameron and May.
posted on 24/3/19
Now we hear that people want another referendum on THE DEAL .....OK we take the 10 major points of the deal, give voters a multiple choice of say 4 options, and LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.
So the people decide the deal, we take it to EU who say "NON", where does that leave us ? Or maybe all 27 EU member states should have a referendum to decide whether to accept our deal or not.
We voted our government in to decide things for us... that's how it works. For good or bad.
This whole unholy mess is caused by MP'S who havn't got the guts to be honest and are voting down ANY DEAL to deny the will of the people.
posted on 24/3/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 minute ago
Michael Portillo put it perfectly when he said that we’ve been given a remainers Brexit and asked to back it or potentially stay in.
It’s remain by design.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully expected this argument.
Let’s be honest, does a ‘brexiteer’s brexit’ actually exist, or is it a pipe dream?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve been hoodwinked into believing that Brexit has different forms.
A deal has different forms yes but Brexit isn’t the deal. Brexit is merely leaving the institutions of the European Union. There’s no ambiguity in that - it only exists in the eyes of those who hope to thwart it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you go back and read what the leave campaign promises Brexit would look like, which has turned out to be complete lies.
Brexit does have various forms and what you want is not necessarily the same as what you can have, as it requires agreement from the EU.
Unless you voted for a no deal, which the leave campaign was not campaigning for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest you separate anecdote from facts and legality.
People couldn’t promise anything. Their job was to persuade voters that we could achieve X if we leave.
As for requiring agreement from the EU - that’s not true. We could leave with or without their blessing. The key was having a better negotiation stance that didn’t put leaving the institutions up as bargaining chips. They were the end goal. That’s what happens when a remainer leads the process.
As for whether I voted for no deal - I didn’t vote for any deal. I voted to leave the EU irrespective of a deal. That’s also, the decision our MPs took when they triggered A50 - but have since reneged.
When Liam Fox said that a deal would be easy - he was absolutely correct. The infrastructure was all there. The 2 things that prevented a good deal were:
A) A Parliament that didn’t want to leave
B) A Union that wanted to punish anyone that dared tried
That doesn’t make the deal difficult, it merely makes those responsible for striking it anti-democratic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
If you believe it is actually possible but the way the process has been managed has prevented that from happening then I suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about. We now know the extent of the issue in NI and we know that the leave campaign were wrong.
I don’t really care what you voted for. I’m telling you, for a fact, that a lot of people did vote for something that they can’t havs. The leave campaign was not for a no deal. I can show you quotes to prove that.
So the situation remains - it is entirely democratic to consider asking people, now they are in possession of facts rather than hypothetical posturing, do they still want to move forward.
Just because a certain element of idiots are happy with a no deal scenario does not mean that the country would be happy to vote for it so we need to be sure because it’s absolutely not whet was voted for in the referendum.
posted on 24/3/19
These idiots are facking us up.
Its very simple. A second referendum should be easy to push through. It won't be undemocratic, the brexiteers are lying again.
Legally speaking, the first referendum was the most undemocratic event ever. It cannot he denied that there was a campaign of lies and propaganda by one side of the referendum.
There was no real exit strategy and basically nothing about brexit is the way it was made out to be. They should take this through a judicial process and have the first referendum declared a nullity due to the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation that was prevalent at the time.
Should be easy enough to prove. A lot of brexiteers have had the bravery to admit they were duped and based their decisions on falsehoods.
The people were hypnotised by a fake illusion of a utopia which is could turn into a dystopia
If any poll winner cannot thereafter carry out the mandate given them by the people, then the said poll winner must resign their cause and a new course chartered after that.
If lies, deception and false promises is democracy then another referendum would be even more democratic, no?
Just my view.
posted on 24/3/19
These idiots are facking us up.
Its very simple. A second referendum should be easy to push through. It won't be undemocratic, the brexiteers are lying again.
Legally speaking, the first referendum was the most undemocratic event ever. It cannot he denied that there was a campaign of lies and propaganda by one side of the referendum.
There was no real exit strategy and basically nothing about brexit is the way it was made out to be. They should take this through a judicial process and have the first referendum declared a nullity due to the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation that was prevalent at the time.
Should be easy enough to prove. A lot of brexiteers have had the bravery to admit they were duped and based their decisions on falsehoods.
The people were hypnotised by a fake illusion of a utopia which is could turn into a dystopia
If any poll winner cannot thereafter carry out the mandate given them by the people, then the said poll winner must resign their cause and a new course chartered after that.
If lies, deception and false promises is democracy then another referendum would be even more democratic, no?
Just my view.
posted on 24/3/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
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a vote for Brexit was simple, it was a vote for:
1. Remove the EU from creating our laws for us.
2. Retake control over who has the right to reside in the UK.
3. leave the customs union so we can negotiate our OWN trade deals.
so which of those can't be achieved? it seems to me that a no-deal Brexit achieves all of those very easily.
this is probably where you say the leave campaign promised access to the single market, we'll yep, we can still have that easily. it's called a trade deal.
the EU says no single market without freedom of movement.
that's bull5h1t, it's just a soundbite, an irrelevant, meaningless phrase that has no basis in reality.
is the EU as it stands, a single market? yes.
is japan part of the EU? is the USA? or china? no.
do they export goods to the EU? yes.
ergo, they have single market access.
do they have to allow anyone from the eu to live in their countries? no.
so is that single market access without freedom of movement. yes.
therefore single market access is easily accessible without freedom of movement. it just means that the terms of access are negotiable, ie, a trade deal.
the issue is that the eu wants to punish us for trying to leave, to prevent other countries choosing to as well. (very democratic of them.) the problem they have is the harder they punish us, the bigger detrimental effect it has on them as we well.
also, the remainers will say we've already started seeing the effects of Brexit, and that it'll get worse.
well, the remainers were telling us the economy would implode if we voted leave, it didn't, it barely even flinched. and most of what we're seeing now is nothing to do with Brexit, but more the effects of 10 years of this governments austerity policies.
posted on 24/3/19
comment by ®∆¢£¥ (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
These idiots are facking us up.
Its very simple. A second referendum should be easy to push through. It won't be undemocratic, the brexiteers are lying again.
Legally speaking, the first referendum was the most undemocratic event ever. It cannot he denied that there was a campaign of lies and propaganda by one side of the referendum.
There was no real exit strategy and basically nothing about brexit is the way it was made out to be. They should take this through a judicial process and have the first referendum declared a nullity due to the proliferation of misinformation and disinformation that was prevalent at the time.
Should be easy enough to prove. A lot of brexiteers have had the bravery to admit they were duped and based their decisions on falsehoods.
The people were hypnotised by a fake illusion of a utopia which is could turn into a dystopia
If any poll winner cannot thereafter carry out the mandate given them by the people, then the said poll winner must resign their cause and a new course chartered after that.
If lies, deception and false promises is democracy then another referendum would be even more democratic, no?
Just my view.
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And you're spot on!
posted on 24/3/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/3/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/3/19
comment by 19th title coming soon. (U12879)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a vote for Brexit was simple, it was a vote for:
1. Remove the EU from creating our laws for us.
2. Retake control over who has the right to reside in the UK.
3. leave the customs union so we can negotiate our OWN trade deals.
so which of those can't be achieved? it seems to me that a no-deal Brexit achieves all of those very easily.
this is probably where you say the leave campaign promised access to the single market, we'll yep, we can still have that easily. it's called a trade deal.
the EU says no single market without freedom of movement.
that's bull5h1t, it's just a soundbite, an irrelevant, meaningless phrase that has no basis in reality.
is the EU as it stands, a single market? yes.
is japan part of the EU? is the USA? or china? no.
do they export goods to the EU? yes.
ergo, they have single market access.
do they have to allow anyone from the eu to live in their countries? no.
so is that single market access without freedom of movement. yes.
therefore single market access is easily accessible without freedom of movement. it just means that the terms of access are negotiable, ie, a trade deal.
the issue is that the eu wants to punish us for trying to leave, to prevent other countries choosing to as well. (very democratic of them.) the problem they have is the harder they punish us, the bigger detrimental effect it has on them as we well.
also, the remainers will say we've already started seeing the effects of Brexit, and that it'll get worse.
well, the remainers were telling us the economy would implode if we voted leave, it didn't, it barely even flinched. and most of what we're seeing now is nothing to do with Brexit, but more the effects of 10 years of this governments austerity policies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Points 1,2 and three are already possible within the EU
Immigration control or lack of it is down to OUR governments failings not the EU . I’ve even heard people blame austerity on the EU , said all along where swinging at the wrong target . People say we are the 5th , 6th or 7th ( depends on who you ask ) richest country in the world , what the Hell do we do with all this wealth , cause it isn’t trickling down .
posted on 24/3/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/3/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 6 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 1 minute ago
Michael Portillo put it perfectly when he said that we’ve been given a remainers Brexit and asked to back it or potentially stay in.
It’s remain by design.
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Fully expected this argument.
Let’s be honest, does a ‘brexiteer’s brexit’ actually exist, or is it a pipe dream?
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You’ve been hoodwinked into believing that Brexit has different forms.
A deal has different forms yes but Brexit isn’t the deal. Brexit is merely leaving the institutions of the European Union. There’s no ambiguity in that - it only exists in the eyes of those who hope to thwart it.
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I suggest you go back and read what the leave campaign promises Brexit would look like, which has turned out to be complete lies.
Brexit does have various forms and what you want is not necessarily the same as what you can have, as it requires agreement from the EU.
Unless you voted for a no deal, which the leave campaign was not campaigning for.
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I suggest you separate anecdote from facts and legality.
People couldn’t promise anything. Their job was to persuade voters that we could achieve X if we leave.
As for requiring agreement from the EU - that’s not true. We could leave with or without their blessing. The key was having a better negotiation stance that didn’t put leaving the institutions up as bargaining chips. They were the end goal. That’s what happens when a remainer leads the process.
As for whether I voted for no deal - I didn’t vote for any deal. I voted to leave the EU irrespective of a deal. That’s also, the decision our MPs took when they triggered A50 - but have since reneged.
When Liam Fox said that a deal would be easy - he was absolutely correct. The infrastructure was all there. The 2 things that prevented a good deal were:
A) A Parliament that didn’t want to leave
B) A Union that wanted to punish anyone that dared tried
That doesn’t make the deal difficult, it merely makes those responsible for striking it anti-democratic.
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Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
If you believe it is actually possible but the way the process has been managed has prevented that from happening then I suggest you don’t know what you’re talking about. We now know the extent of the issue in NI and we know that the leave campaign were wrong.
I don’t really care what you voted for. I’m telling you, for a fact, that a lot of people did vote for something that they can’t havs. The leave campaign was not for a no deal. I can show you quotes to prove that.
So the situation remains - it is entirely democratic to consider asking people, now they are in possession of facts rather than hypothetical posturing, do they still want to move forward.
Just because a certain element of idiots are happy with a no deal scenario does not mean that the country would be happy to vote for it so we need to be sure because it’s absolutely not whet was voted for in the referendum.
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Reply from someone with facts 👍
I must emphasise that people who say nonchalantly that it’s not important to negotiate a deal and that we can leave with a two finger salute to the EU and without a mutual agreement, are the ones that want a bleak and dangerously unsustainable future for this country.
We can’t just leave and cut this country’s economical ties with EU and think we won’t suffer extensively?
We need cool heads and a better negotiator do we can still leave the EU but with mutual benefits and thus the future for children and their children are not harmed.
posted on 24/3/19
posted on 24/3/19
The funniest thing is that the hardcore brexiteerswjony admit it but they’ve been lied to on a massive scale bigger than any April fools ever done!!
Lies that were spread on buses with big massive letters and which convinced them these were true just because enough politicians repeated them constantly .
Oldest trick in the book and yet gullible few fell for it.
Like someone told me, we should wait another ten years when all those bitter brexiteers will die and then go back to EU.
👍
posted on 24/3/19
This isn’t about leaving or remaining anymore, it’s about Theresa May’s ego, and her wanting to be written into the annals of history.
She talks about fullfiling ‘the will of the people’ but is trying to force through a deal that no one voted in the referendum for.
Three years on from that, the 17, 16 and 15 year olds from 2016 would now be eligible to have a say about their futures.
Any People’s Vote would now quite comfortably see the UK remain.
The will of the people...
posted on 24/3/19
Typical hypocritical those who voted to leave!
They were shouting we don't need EU and once the referendum voting finished, the Same people who voted for Brexit were the first ones to apply for Irish passports so they can travel within EU freely?
Hypocrites!
posted on 24/3/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/3/19
comment by 19th title coming soon. (U12879)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 40 minutes ago
Your opinion is entirely based on conjecture.
As things stand, it’s been proven that what was promised/stated could be achieved, is not possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a vote for Brexit was simple, it was a vote for:
1. Remove the EU from creating our laws for us.
2. Retake control over who has the right to reside in the UK.
3. leave the customs union so we can negotiate our OWN trade deals.
so which of those can't be achieved? it seems to me that a no-deal Brexit achieves all of those very easily.
this is probably where you say the leave campaign promised access to the single market, we'll yep, we can still have that easily. it's called a trade deal.
the EU says no single market without freedom of movement.
that's bull5h1t, it's just a soundbite, an irrelevant, meaningless phrase that has no basis in reality.
is the EU as it stands, a single market? yes.
is japan part of the EU? is the USA? or china? no.
do they export goods to the EU? yes.
ergo, they have single market access.
do they have to allow anyone from the eu to live in their countries? no.
so is that single market access without freedom of movement. yes.
therefore single market access is easily accessible without freedom of movement. it just means that the terms of access are negotiable, ie, a trade deal.
the issue is that the eu wants to punish us for trying to leave, to prevent other countries choosing to as well. (very democratic of them.) the problem they have is the harder they punish us, the bigger detrimental effect it has on them as we well.
also, the remainers will say we've already started seeing the effects of Brexit, and that it'll get worse.
well, the remainers were telling us the economy would implode if we voted leave, it didn't, it barely even flinched. and most of what we're seeing now is nothing to do with Brexit, but more the effects of 10 years of this governments austerity policies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice attempt at rewriting history there.
Leaving out all the things that were promised and can’t be delivered.
Great work, very Brexit.
posted on 24/3/19
comment by TTliv87 (U11882)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
Typical hypocritical those who voted to leave!
They were shouting we don't need EU and once the referendum voting finished, the Same people who voted for Brexit were the first ones to apply for Irish passports so they can travel within EU freely?
Hypocrites!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure that's the remainers who have this delusional "citizens of Europe" mentality despite the fact the EU was never meant to be that when we joined in 1973. Also I wouldn't make any moral arguments at the moment if I were you seeing as you were wishing death on people who have a different opinion to you a few posts ago.
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Wait a minute!
So I mentioned someone said something to me and then you make that into something I wished for?
Things don't seem to be right in your head if you make them up?
posted on 24/3/19
Citizens of Europe? Yet another crass that's just bs
posted on 24/3/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/3/19
comment by TTliv87 (U11882)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Like someone told me, we should wait another ten years when all those bitter brexiteers will die and then go back to EU."
"Like someone told me, we should"
The way you wrote that says you agree with it.
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Giving it the thumbs up at the end confirms it
posted on 24/3/19
I'm surprised that hogwash like "350m for the NHS if we exit Europe" actually works.
Who the fack still believes selling lines like that? In some ways people are no different to sheep.
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