Agree, Rocky V hands down the best in the series
Rocky
Rocky 3
Rocky 2
Rocky Balboa
Rocky 4
Creed
Creed 2
Rocky 5
I really enjoyed both the Creed movies but the original Rocky movies will always trump them in my opinion. They're all good movies not including Rocky 5 of course which is the only poor movie in the franchise.
Rocky
Rocky 3
Rocky 4
Rocky 2
Creed
Rocky 5
Rocky Balboa
Haven’t seen the latest one, so can’t comment.
Rocky 5 was a silly movie, but at least it tried something with managing and a Don King type character.
Balboa was basically a remake from the 1st movie, with many interesting characters missing (as expected). Not only that, but the majority of time, it seemed to ignore the rest of the movies and was depressing as hell. Have no idea why there was so much love for it.
Sly did a couple of great speeches, but one of them contradicted the previous movie. They didn’t save the movie for me and the new characters were so bland and forgettable.
Out of interest how did Rocky Balboa ignore the rest of the movies? Are you referring to how Rocky is no longer brain damaged ?
Also which speech contradicted the previous movie ?
Firstly, in the restaurant, he speaks as if Apollo was JUST his opponent (like in the 1st movie), however they ended up being good friends, Apollo helped him regain the title, he went to Russia for Apollo. The way he dismissed him as just an opponent I didn't like.
Duke was a serious character in the original series, very close to Rocky at the end of the 4th movie, but he was used so poorly and was some sort of comic relief. If you're going to bring him back, use him properly or just leave him out of the story.
Finally, yes the brain damage was a big one. In Rocky V, it was irreversible, said clearly by the doctor. So how is he suddenly cleared to box, apparently there's an unwritten rule now that terrible movies can be ignored. I hate that.
There was absolutely no need for a 5th movie, not necessary, but they kept churning them out, trying to press the reset button on him and give him even more things to fight through. Well, you made the bad decision, now live with it. Don't insult the audience by forgetting it.
I also felt the theme from Rocky IV (apart from East vs West which I hated), was about retirement.
Apollo was in denial, he missed the buzz, he felt he was still as good as he was, he didn't listen to anybody and we all know what happened.
Then Rocky went to Russia and at the end of the fight, didn't he say "Everybody can change". I felt the whole point of that was if you are past it, especially in boxing, you could regret it for the rest of your life. Even though you think there's nothing else, you can actually change who you are and still have a rewarding life.
The speech he gave in Balboa to the board completely contradicts the theme of Rocky IV in my opinion.
Rocky Balboa was always a weird one to me. Like I know it's just a film and everything but the idea that a 50+ year old, who was out of the game for 10-15 years, would go round for round with the current heavyweight champion is just too much
Rocky Balboa was always a weird one to me. Like I know it's just a film and everything but the idea that a 50+ year old, who was out of the game for 10-15 years, would go round for round with the current heavyweight champion is just too much
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its a movie damn it!
I guess with all the rocky movies in the most part you have to kind of check your brain at the door
Stallone did Rocky Balboa because he also hated Rocky 5 and he wanted to end the franchise on a good note. Little did he know it would set up the Creed movies. Personally I think of Rocky Balboa, Creed and Creed 2 as a trilogy, as things stand.
comment by JustTrue - (Ronnie wins his 7th UK Snooker Ti... (U13155)
posted 7 hours, 51 minutes ago
Firstly, in the restaurant, he speaks as if Apollo was JUST his opponent (like in the 1st movie), however they ended up being good friends, Apollo helped him regain the title, he went to Russia for Apollo.
Duke was a serious character in the original series, very close to Rocky at the end of the 4th movie, but he was used so poorly and was some sort of comic relief. If you're going to bring him back, use him properly or just leave him out of the story.
Finally, yes the brain damage was a big one. In Rocky V, it was irreversible, said clearly by the doctor. So how is he suddenly cleared to box, apparently there's an unwritten rule now that terrible movies can be ignored. I hate that.
There was absolutely no need for a 5th movie, not necessary, but they kept churning them out, trying to press the reset button on him and give him even more things to fight through. Well, you made the bad decision, now live with it. Don't insult the audience by forgetting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok a lot to address here.
Firstly I don't think that Rocky was dismissing his friendship with Creed in any way. He was just telling his fight stories to his restaurant customers which he probably would have done countless times. Just because Apollo and Rocky became best friends it doesn't change the fact that they fought. In Rocky 4 Rocky and Apollo are even watching a replay of their fight.
Duke was never a very important character. How many lines did Duke get in Rocky 4? Probably less than Drago did which isn't very much at all. Also the actor that played him was old so I think that we saw more than enough of Duke in Rocky Balboa.
The brain damage thing I fully agree with you on. I really hated how that wasn't even touched on in Rocky Balboa. The entire reason that Rocky couldn't fight in Rocky 5 was because of the brain damage. At least they could have shown us a scene where Rocky is at the doctor's being told that the original brain damage disagnosis was a misdiagnosis.
As for your final point I addressed that already in the above comment.
comment by JustTrue - (Ronnie wins his 7th UK Snooker Ti... (U13155)
posted 5 hours, 34 minutes ago
I also felt the theme from Rocky IV (apart from East vs West which I hated), was about retirement.
Apollo was in denial, he missed the buzz, he felt he was still as good as he was, he didn't listen to anybody and we all know what happened.
Then Rocky went to Russia and at the end of the fight, didn't he say "Everybody can change". I felt the whole point of that was if you are past it, especially in boxing, you could regret it for the rest of your life. Even though you think there's nothing else, you can actually change who you are and still have a rewarding life.
The speech he gave in Balboa to the board completely contradicts the theme of Rocky IV in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way you interpret these movies is slightly weird to me. I don't think that the theme of Rocky 4 was about retirement necessarily. Maybe it was in Apollo's case but not necessarily in Rocky's.
The "everybody can change" line is more a reference to the crowd and to the people of the USSR being able to change and turn their backs on Communism.
To me Rocky 4 is a propoganda movie from start to finish. We have James Brown singing about how great America is while everything related to Communist Russia is portrayed as the complete opposite.
I sort of see where you're coming from regarding the speech Rocky gives to boxing board, especially after Apollo died in Rocky 4 doing exactly what Rocky is trying to do in Rocky Balboa.
But then again I don't think that Apollo coming out of retirement and then dying as a result was a morality tale necessarily. I just think he was unlucky and if there is theme there then I'd suggest it's don't underestimate your opponent which Apollo definitely did against Drago.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 hours, 12 minutes ago
Rocky Balboa was always a weird one to me. Like I know it's just a film and everything but the idea that a 50+ year old, who was out of the game for 10-15 years, would go round for round with the current heavyweight champion is just too much
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't Foreman make a comeback at 50ish?
I admit, Rocky coming back at 50 and going 12 rounds with the current (though average) champ is unrealistic, but this is Rocky.
Foreman was still holding his own against the very best in the division up until his mid 40's. Not quite 50 but near enough.
If I was going to nitpick I'd say that Rocky Balboa should have been filmed about ten years earlier than it was. Stallone originally intended to make the movie in the late 90's but couldn't get the project off the ground. He wanted Holyfield to play the Heavyweight Champ in the movie as well.
Stallone was actually closer to 60 when Rocky Balboa was filmed and it shows in the movie as he looks older than the 50 ish year old Rocky that he was portraying.
I didn't know he intended to make it in the late 90's. You're right it would have been more believable, especially with Evander in it........maybe playing himself?
I'm assuming he wanted Evander to play the Mason "The Line" Dixon character although the script may have been quite different back then, different characters etc, who knows. Apart from Sly himself of course.
Best montage?
Rocky II's double, closely followed by IV's double for me.
I prefer the training epsiode in Rocky Balboa. Blunt force trauma
The Apollo being an opponent I can understand sort of, just after millions of flashbacks of ONLY the 1st Movie, Spider Rico, meeting the girl again and Apollo being an opponent just seemed like they were trying to ignore the other movies. I felt a much better story would be to tell the story of Rocky 3 how your previous nemesis helped you win the title back.
As for Duke, yes I agree he was a minor character, but he played a big role in Rocky IV. He gave him a big speech in Russia before the training and was awesome during the final fight. He did look very old in Balboa, I just didn’t see the need to bring him in if they didn’t know how to use him.
Rocky IV, I always interpreted the ‘everybody can change’ speech to accept what Adrian was saying when he was speaking to her on the stairs. She said it’s suicide and he said he can’t change, he’s just got to go with what he is, exactly what Apollo said to him before the Drago fight. So I felt at the end, he finally accepted that he can change. Yes, they threw in some terrible propaganda to hammer down the point of people can change and agree, it was horrible and had no place in a Rocky movie.
I'm not sure how Rocky changed over the course of Rocky 4 though. There was no fundamental change in his character or philosophy.
What he said to Adrian on the stairs was right. He can't change who he is.
Weirdly Rocky 4 was on TV last night so I inevitably watched a bit even though I've seen it countless times. I was surprised when Rocky says to Adrian that they've been married nine years. That would make Rocky about 40 years old in Rocky 4.
Rocky 3
Rocky
Rocky 2
Rocky 4
Creed
Creed 2
Rocky 5 & Rocky Balboa
On a separate note...something about Michael B. Jordan's acting feels forced.
Yes, I really struggle with the timelines in Rocky, here's what I've always felt:
Rocky was at some point in 1976 - Rocky was 30
Rocky 2 ended 1 year later in 1977 (have no idea if the rematch was one year later, I just thought I heard it in Rocky 2) - Assuming Rocky was 31
Rocky 3, I'm sure I heard that was 3 years later, 10 title defences, so now we are in 1980 - they mentioned Rocky is 34 so that makes sense.
I always assumed Apollo's loss to Rocky was his final fight and he retired in 1977 (might be wrong there).
At the end of Rocky 3, Rocky and Apollo have a fight, I will assume that enough time has passed and now it's 1981. Rocky is 35
Rocky 4 starts with him having a black eye and a friend gave him a hat and black eye. I assumed the friend was Apollo and this was a direct reference to their fight at the end of 3.
Then I hear Apollo has been retired for almost 5 years, this also makes sense, Apollo has been retired since 1977 and now it's 1981.
But wait a minute, Rocky's kid was born in 1977 before their fight in Rocky 2 and he certainly doesn't look 4, he looks around 8 or 9 and as has been said, they are married for 9 years, so it's assumed the Rocky is now 39-40 years old and the year is 1985.
Possibly Apollo never retired after the Rocky 2 fight, but that doesn't explain that we have a 40 year old heavyweight champ in Rocky and no information about what he did between 1981 and 1985.
Then in Rocky V, he flies back from Russia (after the fight at the end of 4) and his son has aged 5 more years and he is still World Champion. This is where I give up.
Didn't he retire in Rocky 4 before he fought Drago.
The Drago fight wasn't an official one.
Yes, but when he came back from Russia, the "Don King" guy came with Union Cane and Union Cane was challenging him for the title, at least that's what I remember from Rocky V.
I don't think he retired, but the fight with Drago was NOT for the title, you are right about that.
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Ranking The Rocky Franchise
Page 1 of 2
posted on 31/3/19
Agree, Rocky V hands down the best in the series
posted on 31/3/19
Rocky
Rocky 3
Rocky 2
Rocky Balboa
Rocky 4
Creed
Creed 2
Rocky 5
I really enjoyed both the Creed movies but the original Rocky movies will always trump them in my opinion. They're all good movies not including Rocky 5 of course which is the only poor movie in the franchise.
posted on 1/4/19
Rocky
Rocky 3
Rocky 4
Rocky 2
Creed
Rocky 5
Rocky Balboa
Haven’t seen the latest one, so can’t comment.
Rocky 5 was a silly movie, but at least it tried something with managing and a Don King type character.
Balboa was basically a remake from the 1st movie, with many interesting characters missing (as expected). Not only that, but the majority of time, it seemed to ignore the rest of the movies and was depressing as hell. Have no idea why there was so much love for it.
Sly did a couple of great speeches, but one of them contradicted the previous movie. They didn’t save the movie for me and the new characters were so bland and forgettable.
posted on 1/4/19
Out of interest how did Rocky Balboa ignore the rest of the movies? Are you referring to how Rocky is no longer brain damaged ?
Also which speech contradicted the previous movie ?
posted on 1/4/19
Firstly, in the restaurant, he speaks as if Apollo was JUST his opponent (like in the 1st movie), however they ended up being good friends, Apollo helped him regain the title, he went to Russia for Apollo. The way he dismissed him as just an opponent I didn't like.
Duke was a serious character in the original series, very close to Rocky at the end of the 4th movie, but he was used so poorly and was some sort of comic relief. If you're going to bring him back, use him properly or just leave him out of the story.
Finally, yes the brain damage was a big one. In Rocky V, it was irreversible, said clearly by the doctor. So how is he suddenly cleared to box, apparently there's an unwritten rule now that terrible movies can be ignored. I hate that.
There was absolutely no need for a 5th movie, not necessary, but they kept churning them out, trying to press the reset button on him and give him even more things to fight through. Well, you made the bad decision, now live with it. Don't insult the audience by forgetting it.
posted on 1/4/19
I also felt the theme from Rocky IV (apart from East vs West which I hated), was about retirement.
Apollo was in denial, he missed the buzz, he felt he was still as good as he was, he didn't listen to anybody and we all know what happened.
Then Rocky went to Russia and at the end of the fight, didn't he say "Everybody can change". I felt the whole point of that was if you are past it, especially in boxing, you could regret it for the rest of your life. Even though you think there's nothing else, you can actually change who you are and still have a rewarding life.
The speech he gave in Balboa to the board completely contradicts the theme of Rocky IV in my opinion.
posted on 1/4/19
Rocky Balboa was always a weird one to me. Like I know it's just a film and everything but the idea that a 50+ year old, who was out of the game for 10-15 years, would go round for round with the current heavyweight champion is just too much
posted on 1/4/19
Rocky Balboa was always a weird one to me. Like I know it's just a film and everything but the idea that a 50+ year old, who was out of the game for 10-15 years, would go round for round with the current heavyweight champion is just too much
-----------------
its a movie damn it!
I guess with all the rocky movies in the most part you have to kind of check your brain at the door
posted on 1/4/19
Stallone did Rocky Balboa because he also hated Rocky 5 and he wanted to end the franchise on a good note. Little did he know it would set up the Creed movies. Personally I think of Rocky Balboa, Creed and Creed 2 as a trilogy, as things stand.
posted on 1/4/19
comment by JustTrue - (Ronnie wins his 7th UK Snooker Ti... (U13155)
posted 7 hours, 51 minutes ago
Firstly, in the restaurant, he speaks as if Apollo was JUST his opponent (like in the 1st movie), however they ended up being good friends, Apollo helped him regain the title, he went to Russia for Apollo.
Duke was a serious character in the original series, very close to Rocky at the end of the 4th movie, but he was used so poorly and was some sort of comic relief. If you're going to bring him back, use him properly or just leave him out of the story.
Finally, yes the brain damage was a big one. In Rocky V, it was irreversible, said clearly by the doctor. So how is he suddenly cleared to box, apparently there's an unwritten rule now that terrible movies can be ignored. I hate that.
There was absolutely no need for a 5th movie, not necessary, but they kept churning them out, trying to press the reset button on him and give him even more things to fight through. Well, you made the bad decision, now live with it. Don't insult the audience by forgetting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok a lot to address here.
Firstly I don't think that Rocky was dismissing his friendship with Creed in any way. He was just telling his fight stories to his restaurant customers which he probably would have done countless times. Just because Apollo and Rocky became best friends it doesn't change the fact that they fought. In Rocky 4 Rocky and Apollo are even watching a replay of their fight.
Duke was never a very important character. How many lines did Duke get in Rocky 4? Probably less than Drago did which isn't very much at all. Also the actor that played him was old so I think that we saw more than enough of Duke in Rocky Balboa.
The brain damage thing I fully agree with you on. I really hated how that wasn't even touched on in Rocky Balboa. The entire reason that Rocky couldn't fight in Rocky 5 was because of the brain damage. At least they could have shown us a scene where Rocky is at the doctor's being told that the original brain damage disagnosis was a misdiagnosis.
As for your final point I addressed that already in the above comment.
posted on 1/4/19
comment by JustTrue - (Ronnie wins his 7th UK Snooker Ti... (U13155)
posted 5 hours, 34 minutes ago
I also felt the theme from Rocky IV (apart from East vs West which I hated), was about retirement.
Apollo was in denial, he missed the buzz, he felt he was still as good as he was, he didn't listen to anybody and we all know what happened.
Then Rocky went to Russia and at the end of the fight, didn't he say "Everybody can change". I felt the whole point of that was if you are past it, especially in boxing, you could regret it for the rest of your life. Even though you think there's nothing else, you can actually change who you are and still have a rewarding life.
The speech he gave in Balboa to the board completely contradicts the theme of Rocky IV in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way you interpret these movies is slightly weird to me. I don't think that the theme of Rocky 4 was about retirement necessarily. Maybe it was in Apollo's case but not necessarily in Rocky's.
The "everybody can change" line is more a reference to the crowd and to the people of the USSR being able to change and turn their backs on Communism.
To me Rocky 4 is a propoganda movie from start to finish. We have James Brown singing about how great America is while everything related to Communist Russia is portrayed as the complete opposite.
I sort of see where you're coming from regarding the speech Rocky gives to boxing board, especially after Apollo died in Rocky 4 doing exactly what Rocky is trying to do in Rocky Balboa.
But then again I don't think that Apollo coming out of retirement and then dying as a result was a morality tale necessarily. I just think he was unlucky and if there is theme there then I'd suggest it's don't underestimate your opponent which Apollo definitely did against Drago.
posted on 1/4/19
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 4 hours, 12 minutes ago
Rocky Balboa was always a weird one to me. Like I know it's just a film and everything but the idea that a 50+ year old, who was out of the game for 10-15 years, would go round for round with the current heavyweight champion is just too much
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't Foreman make a comeback at 50ish?
I admit, Rocky coming back at 50 and going 12 rounds with the current (though average) champ is unrealistic, but this is Rocky.
posted on 1/4/19
Foreman was still holding his own against the very best in the division up until his mid 40's. Not quite 50 but near enough.
If I was going to nitpick I'd say that Rocky Balboa should have been filmed about ten years earlier than it was. Stallone originally intended to make the movie in the late 90's but couldn't get the project off the ground. He wanted Holyfield to play the Heavyweight Champ in the movie as well.
Stallone was actually closer to 60 when Rocky Balboa was filmed and it shows in the movie as he looks older than the 50 ish year old Rocky that he was portraying.
posted on 1/4/19
I didn't know he intended to make it in the late 90's. You're right it would have been more believable, especially with Evander in it........maybe playing himself?
posted on 1/4/19
I'm assuming he wanted Evander to play the Mason "The Line" Dixon character although the script may have been quite different back then, different characters etc, who knows. Apart from Sly himself of course.
posted on 1/4/19
Best montage?
Rocky II's double, closely followed by IV's double for me.
posted on 1/4/19
I prefer the training epsiode in Rocky Balboa. Blunt force trauma
posted on 1/4/19
The Apollo being an opponent I can understand sort of, just after millions of flashbacks of ONLY the 1st Movie, Spider Rico, meeting the girl again and Apollo being an opponent just seemed like they were trying to ignore the other movies. I felt a much better story would be to tell the story of Rocky 3 how your previous nemesis helped you win the title back.
As for Duke, yes I agree he was a minor character, but he played a big role in Rocky IV. He gave him a big speech in Russia before the training and was awesome during the final fight. He did look very old in Balboa, I just didn’t see the need to bring him in if they didn’t know how to use him.
Rocky IV, I always interpreted the ‘everybody can change’ speech to accept what Adrian was saying when he was speaking to her on the stairs. She said it’s suicide and he said he can’t change, he’s just got to go with what he is, exactly what Apollo said to him before the Drago fight. So I felt at the end, he finally accepted that he can change. Yes, they threw in some terrible propaganda to hammer down the point of people can change and agree, it was horrible and had no place in a Rocky movie.
posted on 2/4/19
I'm not sure how Rocky changed over the course of Rocky 4 though. There was no fundamental change in his character or philosophy.
What he said to Adrian on the stairs was right. He can't change who he is.
Weirdly Rocky 4 was on TV last night so I inevitably watched a bit even though I've seen it countless times. I was surprised when Rocky says to Adrian that they've been married nine years. That would make Rocky about 40 years old in Rocky 4.
posted on 3/4/19
Rocky 3
Rocky
Rocky 2
Rocky 4
Creed
Creed 2
Rocky 5 & Rocky Balboa
posted on 3/4/19
On a separate note...something about Michael B. Jordan's acting feels forced.
posted on 3/4/19
Yes, I really struggle with the timelines in Rocky, here's what I've always felt:
Rocky was at some point in 1976 - Rocky was 30
Rocky 2 ended 1 year later in 1977 (have no idea if the rematch was one year later, I just thought I heard it in Rocky 2) - Assuming Rocky was 31
Rocky 3, I'm sure I heard that was 3 years later, 10 title defences, so now we are in 1980 - they mentioned Rocky is 34 so that makes sense.
I always assumed Apollo's loss to Rocky was his final fight and he retired in 1977 (might be wrong there).
At the end of Rocky 3, Rocky and Apollo have a fight, I will assume that enough time has passed and now it's 1981. Rocky is 35
Rocky 4 starts with him having a black eye and a friend gave him a hat and black eye. I assumed the friend was Apollo and this was a direct reference to their fight at the end of 3.
Then I hear Apollo has been retired for almost 5 years, this also makes sense, Apollo has been retired since 1977 and now it's 1981.
But wait a minute, Rocky's kid was born in 1977 before their fight in Rocky 2 and he certainly doesn't look 4, he looks around 8 or 9 and as has been said, they are married for 9 years, so it's assumed the Rocky is now 39-40 years old and the year is 1985.
Possibly Apollo never retired after the Rocky 2 fight, but that doesn't explain that we have a 40 year old heavyweight champ in Rocky and no information about what he did between 1981 and 1985.
Then in Rocky V, he flies back from Russia (after the fight at the end of 4) and his son has aged 5 more years and he is still World Champion. This is where I give up.
posted on 3/4/19
Didn't he retire in Rocky 4 before he fought Drago.
The Drago fight wasn't an official one.
posted on 3/4/19
Yes, but when he came back from Russia, the "Don King" guy came with Union Cane and Union Cane was challenging him for the title, at least that's what I remember from Rocky V.
posted on 3/4/19
I don't think he retired, but the fight with Drago was NOT for the title, you are right about that.
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