I can see this being another half hearted affair with players making their own arrangements to get there stopping off at subway to buy their own ht snacks.
With it being on I'm expecting it to drag on until Monday poss Tues before the A word comes into play
I still think Anderson could & should have done things much earlier, he’s had three years I think 🤔 and new the inevitable would happen one day, he sold some good young players to fund is time in charge, once he had exhausted that he let go of the reins the mess happened, I don’t know!! but my guess is there were better people interested but his greed got in the way.
Golden at least two potential suitors were turned away when they couldn't show they had the money. Two more walked of their own accord when shown the books.
Ken has never lied to us really. He told us at the beginning he saw himself as an 'interim' owner after the Dean Holdsworth fiasco used up what cash Ken had left and that he could only keep the club alive from existing revenue plus a few bits and bobs which is what has happened.
It hasn't been pleasant, we look bad in the media but in fairness to Ken he was dealt a dreadful hand by Dean and the Sportshield garbage which anyone would have struggled to overcome.
Peter, I thank Ken for keeping things going, it was far better than the alternative, but I still wonder was it just the books that scared the other 2 off or was there something else ,and if we are to go into administration
Wouldn’t it have been better 3 yrs ago,
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, is that what your thinking .😉
Bassini is claiming he's already done it on Sky Sports and that he's seeking assurances there'll be no points deduction next season due to an "attempt" to put us in admin earlier this year. Personally I think that's a smokescreen he's using to provide him with an excuse when he fails to provide the proof of funding by 7pm today since the EFL, BBC and of course BWFC have all said nothing whatsoever about Bassini's 'proof' as yet.
Here's what I'm expcting him to say later on or perhaps tomorrow.
"I provided all the necessary information to the EFL as to proof of funding for my proposed takeover of BWFC but they were unable to assure me that the club would not have points deducted as a result of the current ownerships actions. Since such a deduction would make it effectively impossible for me to take the club forward in a timely fashion my advisors and I have decided with regret to withdraw from the negotiations. We wish Bolton Wanderers all the best for the future."
Or something along those lines. Ken will say "He failed to keep any of the promises he made regarding wages and totally failed to satisfy either myself or the Football League that he was in fact in possession of the funds he claimed. As a result these negotiations are now over and the board and I will look at alternative courses of action and other potential purchasers."
In short, we'll be exactly where we've been for the last year or so but with a court date just five days away.
No Golden. Basically had Dean Holdsworth not bailed in the way he did then we'd probably not be in quite such a mess. Ken never intended to be the ONLY significant shareholder but of course he was left with no option once it became clear what Sportshield really was and of course BluMarble.
As I understand it Ken initially went in for somewhere around 7.5 million and had a further 5 mil in reserve for operating costs. He believed Dean and Sportshield were bringing the same or thereabouts to the table. When he found out SS had borrowed the money using club assets as collateral he was unhappy but at first not unduly alarmed until it became clear Dean couldn't even make the first repayment let alone actually service the debt.
Ken used ALL his reserves to pay off SS and BluMarble (including a 1 million fee to DH which still makes my blood boil) and from that point on we were in extremely serious trouble. There was simply no way to cover costs with revenue at that time and so began a merry go round of robbing Peter to pay Paul (usually late) while fending off winding up orders from a variety of creditors (most notably HMRC and Heathcotes). Ken had to reduce the wagebill massively and yet keep squad numbers up despite the various embargoes and he did so.
During the course of Ken's tenure there have been repeated attempts by the ST and others to claim he's got some plan to make a huge personal profit but it should be clear to even the least business savvy of us that there's none to be made and hasn't been for a while as a football club.
That left us with two kinds of suitors. Chancers who think they can buy the club for nothing then asset strip it (eg sell the hotel etc) and charlatans who claim they've got a plan to make us great again but have no money to actually buy us.
In truth I believe the only way this will get sorted in the end is via administration. The people with real money and real expertise won't buy us now as a going concern because it would be throwing money away while if they take over in admin they can do so for a fraction of the cost and with comparitively much healthier books.
Peter, thanks for the info, that puts a very different light on the whole sarga. Cheers.
Peter, may I ask where your information has come from or is it purely your assessment of events?
What you say could be true but frankly, I always thought that Ken was in it for the money. He has no history with the club and I doubt any real feeling for it either. We did know that he wasn't in it for the long haul so why else would he be interested in the club if not to make a profit. His past dealings don't exactly fill one with confidence and it's much the same with Bassini.
Tuesday for the Brentford game but I'm struggling to see how that can actually happen with staff unpaid and will be called off if the club in administration by then. So that game will be played on the 7th of never.
Not being forced to play Brentford if we go into admin, would that mean no points deduction for not fulfilling all the games?
But we would still have to play Forrest on Sunday.
Heard mentioned 8 point deduction but hoping the EFL will or the independent panel whichever are understanding of the circumstances.
So EFL say no.
Apparently Bassini never turned up for tonight's meeting.
https://www.efl.com/news/2019/may/efl-statement-bolton-wanderers2
Voluntary Admin in the morning or Liquidation next Wednesday morning.
Only 2 working days left before court.
comment by SUPERWHITEINEXILE (U2020)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
Peter, may I ask where your information has come from or is it purely your assessment of events?
What you say could be true but frankly, I always thought that Ken was in it for the money. He has no history with the club and I doubt any real feeling for it either. We did know that he wasn't in it for the long haul so why else would he be interested in the club if not to make a profit. His past dealings don't exactly fill one with confidence and it's much the same with Bassini.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SWIE Ken himself issued a statement shortly after Dean's exit that he would have to find a purchaser for the club or at least a new partner since he alone didn't have the necessary funds to run it alone given expenditure at the time.
Shortly after that we were informed that two separate consortia were interested and Ken entered preliminary negotiations with them both. However as the true picture of the BluMarble situation emerged both those groups decided they didn't want to go further.
In early 2018 a pair of approaches were made to Ken that looked to be serious. He allowed them both to begin due dilligence but asked they provide proof of funds before submitting any formal bid for the club. Both parties said they would but failed to do so despite repeated requests.
Since then there have been many initial contacts but none went any further, some say because Ken was asking too much, others because the enquirers were 'tyre kickers' or even that Ken has blocked real buyers on the grounds of some master plan in which he makes a huge profit selling the clubs assets (which would be tough since pretty much everything is already mortgaged to the hilt).
During all this time Ken has worked to get the bills down to a point where they are at least close to even with expenditure but his own personal reserves are now drained which means he's paid certain things late or not at all.
In the most recent case, the player's wages he'd been assured by Bassini that the wages would be paid as part of the overall deal to buy BWFC. Mr Bassini failed to keep that and a number of other promises including the promise to provide proof of funding to the EFL both two days ago and again today.
By the way, I freely admit that Ken has made some bad mistakes along the way and not helped himself especially in terms of PR but I don't share the ST's view that he's some Machiavellian asset stripping profit monger. What I think has happened is he initially got in thinking he had a partner and would be able to sell on his share of the club for a profit later. He got lumbered when Dean and SS turned out to be skint and wound up carrying the entire load. While he probably hoped someone else would come in quickly he acted as best he could to make the club a more attractive proposition by getting the wage bills down thus balancing or at least almost balancing the books. Unfortunately for him and us that's turned out to be much harder in reality than it seemed in theory. Since Ken has no or very little money of his own left he's basically juggling bills and paying them at the very last instant but even that's not enough any more.
With the collapse of the Bassini deal I expect admin, possibly as early as tomorrow.
The Bassini deal is Off bbc news at 10
Sorry just caught up ðŸ¤
https://www-thesun-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8992131/bolton-administration/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2F8992131%2Fbolton-administration%2F Bolton £41.6m in debt. So much for not a lot of debt in there its just a lack of cash. The £15m ed left in is still there and appears to have grown to £18m. Football ventures is likely to take over out of admin.
The turning a small profit this year was a line a many of us fell for with Ken having us believe he had reduced costs and was really turning things around when in fact the underlying debt was up to this 41.6m mark I reckon that is twice the value of the club.in its current state of needing investment in a new first team.
The video states that Eddie Davies's family are now ready to step in and reclaim the debt owed to them. As far as I can ascertain, the only way that they could do that is to take Ken's shares. It was written into the last agreement with Ken, so maybe that could be done.
The questions is, if they do that how can they recoup their money. Thanks to the ST, the stadium has to remain as a sporting venue so it would seem that selling it for other purposes would not be possible. As they probably would not be able to sell the club for that amount, they may decide to cut their losses and sell for a much lower price, or they could asset strip the remaining parts of the club that is not in hock but leaving the stadium as a stand-alone fixture of the club. However, I can't see that would be enough to return them the amount of the debt.
We then have the Bassini factor. He says that he has a watertight contract with Anderson. We will have to wait and see how that scenario plays out. One thing is sure, we are in a terrible mess and the sooner it's over the better.
An ownership dispute with one clear working day left before a twice-adjourned winding up hearing … just what we need. I find it difficult to believe Bassini has ever had an realistic chance of a viable bid: who, apart from generous and sympathetic family members, is going to entrust upwards of £20m to a two-time bankrupt? Obviously he doesn't have that kind of money himself and it seems clear that he hasn't been able to muster backers with the required cash. Money talks, bullsh!t walks as they say.
A lot of people here and on other forums now concluding that administration might be the only way to forestall liquidation next Wednesday, but the ownership arguments could make it legally difficult for Ken to arrange voluntary administration. Court on Wednesday might say: "Don't care who owns the company, it's liquidated anyway".
Interesting comments by SWIE about the planning status of the stadium. The creditors in liquidation are only going to be able to sell the stadium to someone who is in the market for a large sports venue in the Bolton area: not a very wide field, it would include any BWFC(2019) Ltd newco and perhaps no-one else. Very much a buyer's market. They could "do a Rangers".
I see the Brentford game has been awarded as a walkover to Brentford. Possible points deductions to follow if we are still in business.
We won't have to wait too long now. It's either administration or liquidation.
Shame on every one who has been involved to bring it to this. Ironic it was the Brentford home game 4 years ago the trouble first started with ed withdrawing support and not paying the players. I shouldn't personally feel embarrassed but i do. At least ken never got that last £34 payment off me.
It seems that the ownership scenario could negate ken from placing the club into Administration. This is taken from the Bolton News.
The impasse leaves Bolton rudderless over the Bank Holiday weekend with just 24 hours to organise either a sale to Bassini, or for the trustees of former owner Eddie Davies to place the business into administration, before a High Court hearing on Wednesday.
If matters can be resolved before Wednesday which seems unlikely, the club could still be placed into administration. There doesn't seem a simple solution to this problem unless Ken can get a court hearing arranged for Tuesday and get a positive result, or Bassini stands aside and let's ken put the club into administration. Both scenarios seem long shots, to say the least.
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Page 1 of 2
posted on 2/5/19
I can see this being another half hearted affair with players making their own arrangements to get there stopping off at subway to buy their own ht snacks.
With it being on I'm expecting it to drag on until Monday poss Tues before the A word comes into play
posted on 2/5/19
I still think Anderson could & should have done things much earlier, he’s had three years I think 🤔 and new the inevitable would happen one day, he sold some good young players to fund is time in charge, once he had exhausted that he let go of the reins the mess happened, I don’t know!! but my guess is there were better people interested but his greed got in the way.
posted on 2/5/19
Golden at least two potential suitors were turned away when they couldn't show they had the money. Two more walked of their own accord when shown the books.
Ken has never lied to us really. He told us at the beginning he saw himself as an 'interim' owner after the Dean Holdsworth fiasco used up what cash Ken had left and that he could only keep the club alive from existing revenue plus a few bits and bobs which is what has happened.
It hasn't been pleasant, we look bad in the media but in fairness to Ken he was dealt a dreadful hand by Dean and the Sportshield garbage which anyone would have struggled to overcome.
posted on 2/5/19
Peter, I thank Ken for keeping things going, it was far better than the alternative, but I still wonder was it just the books that scared the other 2 off or was there something else ,and if we are to go into administration
Wouldn’t it have been better 3 yrs ago,
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, is that what your thinking .😉
posted on 2/5/19
Bassini is claiming he's already done it on Sky Sports and that he's seeking assurances there'll be no points deduction next season due to an "attempt" to put us in admin earlier this year. Personally I think that's a smokescreen he's using to provide him with an excuse when he fails to provide the proof of funding by 7pm today since the EFL, BBC and of course BWFC have all said nothing whatsoever about Bassini's 'proof' as yet.
Here's what I'm expcting him to say later on or perhaps tomorrow.
"I provided all the necessary information to the EFL as to proof of funding for my proposed takeover of BWFC but they were unable to assure me that the club would not have points deducted as a result of the current ownerships actions. Since such a deduction would make it effectively impossible for me to take the club forward in a timely fashion my advisors and I have decided with regret to withdraw from the negotiations. We wish Bolton Wanderers all the best for the future."
Or something along those lines. Ken will say "He failed to keep any of the promises he made regarding wages and totally failed to satisfy either myself or the Football League that he was in fact in possession of the funds he claimed. As a result these negotiations are now over and the board and I will look at alternative courses of action and other potential purchasers."
In short, we'll be exactly where we've been for the last year or so but with a court date just five days away.
posted on 2/5/19
No Golden. Basically had Dean Holdsworth not bailed in the way he did then we'd probably not be in quite such a mess. Ken never intended to be the ONLY significant shareholder but of course he was left with no option once it became clear what Sportshield really was and of course BluMarble.
As I understand it Ken initially went in for somewhere around 7.5 million and had a further 5 mil in reserve for operating costs. He believed Dean and Sportshield were bringing the same or thereabouts to the table. When he found out SS had borrowed the money using club assets as collateral he was unhappy but at first not unduly alarmed until it became clear Dean couldn't even make the first repayment let alone actually service the debt.
Ken used ALL his reserves to pay off SS and BluMarble (including a 1 million fee to DH which still makes my blood boil) and from that point on we were in extremely serious trouble. There was simply no way to cover costs with revenue at that time and so began a merry go round of robbing Peter to pay Paul (usually late) while fending off winding up orders from a variety of creditors (most notably HMRC and Heathcotes). Ken had to reduce the wagebill massively and yet keep squad numbers up despite the various embargoes and he did so.
During the course of Ken's tenure there have been repeated attempts by the ST and others to claim he's got some plan to make a huge personal profit but it should be clear to even the least business savvy of us that there's none to be made and hasn't been for a while as a football club.
That left us with two kinds of suitors. Chancers who think they can buy the club for nothing then asset strip it (eg sell the hotel etc) and charlatans who claim they've got a plan to make us great again but have no money to actually buy us.
In truth I believe the only way this will get sorted in the end is via administration. The people with real money and real expertise won't buy us now as a going concern because it would be throwing money away while if they take over in admin they can do so for a fraction of the cost and with comparitively much healthier books.
posted on 2/5/19
Peter, thanks for the info, that puts a very different light on the whole sarga. Cheers.
posted on 2/5/19
Peter, may I ask where your information has come from or is it purely your assessment of events?
What you say could be true but frankly, I always thought that Ken was in it for the money. He has no history with the club and I doubt any real feeling for it either. We did know that he wasn't in it for the long haul so why else would he be interested in the club if not to make a profit. His past dealings don't exactly fill one with confidence and it's much the same with Bassini.
posted on 2/5/19
Tuesday for the Brentford game but I'm struggling to see how that can actually happen with staff unpaid and will be called off if the club in administration by then. So that game will be played on the 7th of never.
posted on 2/5/19
Not being forced to play Brentford if we go into admin, would that mean no points deduction for not fulfilling all the games?
But we would still have to play Forrest on Sunday.
posted on 2/5/19
Heard mentioned 8 point deduction but hoping the EFL will or the independent panel whichever are understanding of the circumstances.
posted on 2/5/19
So EFL say no.
Apparently Bassini never turned up for tonight's meeting.
https://www.efl.com/news/2019/may/efl-statement-bolton-wanderers2
posted on 2/5/19
What now?
posted on 2/5/19
Voluntary Admin in the morning or Liquidation next Wednesday morning.
Only 2 working days left before court.
posted on 2/5/19
comment by SUPERWHITEINEXILE (U2020)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
Peter, may I ask where your information has come from or is it purely your assessment of events?
What you say could be true but frankly, I always thought that Ken was in it for the money. He has no history with the club and I doubt any real feeling for it either. We did know that he wasn't in it for the long haul so why else would he be interested in the club if not to make a profit. His past dealings don't exactly fill one with confidence and it's much the same with Bassini.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SWIE Ken himself issued a statement shortly after Dean's exit that he would have to find a purchaser for the club or at least a new partner since he alone didn't have the necessary funds to run it alone given expenditure at the time.
Shortly after that we were informed that two separate consortia were interested and Ken entered preliminary negotiations with them both. However as the true picture of the BluMarble situation emerged both those groups decided they didn't want to go further.
In early 2018 a pair of approaches were made to Ken that looked to be serious. He allowed them both to begin due dilligence but asked they provide proof of funds before submitting any formal bid for the club. Both parties said they would but failed to do so despite repeated requests.
Since then there have been many initial contacts but none went any further, some say because Ken was asking too much, others because the enquirers were 'tyre kickers' or even that Ken has blocked real buyers on the grounds of some master plan in which he makes a huge profit selling the clubs assets (which would be tough since pretty much everything is already mortgaged to the hilt).
During all this time Ken has worked to get the bills down to a point where they are at least close to even with expenditure but his own personal reserves are now drained which means he's paid certain things late or not at all.
In the most recent case, the player's wages he'd been assured by Bassini that the wages would be paid as part of the overall deal to buy BWFC. Mr Bassini failed to keep that and a number of other promises including the promise to provide proof of funding to the EFL both two days ago and again today.
posted on 2/5/19
By the way, I freely admit that Ken has made some bad mistakes along the way and not helped himself especially in terms of PR but I don't share the ST's view that he's some Machiavellian asset stripping profit monger. What I think has happened is he initially got in thinking he had a partner and would be able to sell on his share of the club for a profit later. He got lumbered when Dean and SS turned out to be skint and wound up carrying the entire load. While he probably hoped someone else would come in quickly he acted as best he could to make the club a more attractive proposition by getting the wage bills down thus balancing or at least almost balancing the books. Unfortunately for him and us that's turned out to be much harder in reality than it seemed in theory. Since Ken has no or very little money of his own left he's basically juggling bills and paying them at the very last instant but even that's not enough any more.
With the collapse of the Bassini deal I expect admin, possibly as early as tomorrow.
posted on 2/5/19
The Bassini deal is Off bbc news at 10
posted on 2/5/19
Sorry just caught up ðŸ¤
posted on 2/5/19
https://www-thesun-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8992131/bolton-administration/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2F8992131%2Fbolton-administration%2F Bolton £41.6m in debt. So much for not a lot of debt in there its just a lack of cash. The £15m ed left in is still there and appears to have grown to £18m. Football ventures is likely to take over out of admin.
posted on 3/5/19
The turning a small profit this year was a line a many of us fell for with Ken having us believe he had reduced costs and was really turning things around when in fact the underlying debt was up to this 41.6m mark I reckon that is twice the value of the club.in its current state of needing investment in a new first team.
posted on 3/5/19
The video states that Eddie Davies's family are now ready to step in and reclaim the debt owed to them. As far as I can ascertain, the only way that they could do that is to take Ken's shares. It was written into the last agreement with Ken, so maybe that could be done.
The questions is, if they do that how can they recoup their money. Thanks to the ST, the stadium has to remain as a sporting venue so it would seem that selling it for other purposes would not be possible. As they probably would not be able to sell the club for that amount, they may decide to cut their losses and sell for a much lower price, or they could asset strip the remaining parts of the club that is not in hock but leaving the stadium as a stand-alone fixture of the club. However, I can't see that would be enough to return them the amount of the debt.
We then have the Bassini factor. He says that he has a watertight contract with Anderson. We will have to wait and see how that scenario plays out. One thing is sure, we are in a terrible mess and the sooner it's over the better.
posted on 3/5/19
An ownership dispute with one clear working day left before a twice-adjourned winding up hearing … just what we need. I find it difficult to believe Bassini has ever had an realistic chance of a viable bid: who, apart from generous and sympathetic family members, is going to entrust upwards of £20m to a two-time bankrupt? Obviously he doesn't have that kind of money himself and it seems clear that he hasn't been able to muster backers with the required cash. Money talks, bullsh!t walks as they say.
A lot of people here and on other forums now concluding that administration might be the only way to forestall liquidation next Wednesday, but the ownership arguments could make it legally difficult for Ken to arrange voluntary administration. Court on Wednesday might say: "Don't care who owns the company, it's liquidated anyway".
Interesting comments by SWIE about the planning status of the stadium. The creditors in liquidation are only going to be able to sell the stadium to someone who is in the market for a large sports venue in the Bolton area: not a very wide field, it would include any BWFC(2019) Ltd newco and perhaps no-one else. Very much a buyer's market. They could "do a Rangers".
posted on 3/5/19
I see the Brentford game has been awarded as a walkover to Brentford. Possible points deductions to follow if we are still in business.
We won't have to wait too long now. It's either administration or liquidation.
posted on 3/5/19
Shame on every one who has been involved to bring it to this. Ironic it was the Brentford home game 4 years ago the trouble first started with ed withdrawing support and not paying the players. I shouldn't personally feel embarrassed but i do. At least ken never got that last £34 payment off me.
posted on 4/5/19
It seems that the ownership scenario could negate ken from placing the club into Administration. This is taken from the Bolton News.
The impasse leaves Bolton rudderless over the Bank Holiday weekend with just 24 hours to organise either a sale to Bassini, or for the trustees of former owner Eddie Davies to place the business into administration, before a High Court hearing on Wednesday.
If matters can be resolved before Wednesday which seems unlikely, the club could still be placed into administration. There doesn't seem a simple solution to this problem unless Ken can get a court hearing arranged for Tuesday and get a positive result, or Bassini stands aside and let's ken put the club into administration. Both scenarios seem long shots, to say the least.
Page 1 of 2