Let's be honest, Pogba doesn't want to be at OT. He doesn't have the heart for the battle we face.
-----------------------
This ^
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 3 seconds ago
People have dumb expectations of Pogba. They hate him for no good reason when he’s easily our only good midfielder. Good luck to them! Matic and mctominay it is next season and what ever mid table player we sign
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think anyone disputes his quality as a player, but there are issues:
- Played anywhere but the LCM role (in a three) and he's not nearly as effective
- He's prone to switching off and not tracking runners and it's cost us goals before
- He brings and/or attracts the wrong sort of attention in terms of speculation, controversy and so on. Not always of his own making, but it's a bit of a circus all the same
- With the money he'd sell for, we'd probably be better off investing that in two quality midfielders who would offer better overall balance to the team
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 3 minutes ago
Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves..
I bet you we won’t sign any of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right - you probably are. There are of course plenty of other options out there that could be just as good. I simply don't have the knowledge of what and who else is on the continent that may tick some of the boxes.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 5 minutes ago
What I don't really get is that some of the most vocal people now against Pogba were the most vocal about praising him through the good run... Did they really not notice the injuries to Matic and Herrera (and key attackers? It's frankly weird.
If we get someone better than Herrera (not impossible) we could be good to go, with Matic/McT fighting it out for the other spot.
If he wants out, fine.. bye bye... But if he wants to stay... Then we just need a Herrera replacement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he genuinely wants to stay then great. We need to replace Herrera and we still need a quality midfield addition as well. We need two midfielders now that Herrera has left in my view.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Pogba/player X and on of Fred, Matic, Pereira, McTominay. Fred may well be off next summer if he still doesn't look up to speed and Matic is of an age where we'd be looking for young and better next summer, too.
I reckon we’ll sign that Bruno Fernandes.
Ji
Pretty sure that was mostly my argument against yourself when we were going to sign him.
Welcome to the dark side.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Pogba has become an unnecessary distraction - not entirely of his own making in fairness - but I can't help but feel we might be better off cashing in and transforming the midfield into a more functional unit, rather than try to set up the midfield to get the best out of one player.
We'd be looking at completely overhauling the entire midfield in one window, which of course is going to cost money, but there seems to be three young, hungry, hard-working and talented midfielders with a good blend of attributes available this summer in Tielemens, Rice & Fernandes.
The likelihood of bring in three midfielders alone seems very slim in one window, but if we are to lose Pogba as well as Herrera, we need two just to break-even numbers wise. And we needed a quality midfielder to come into the team even with Herrera & Pogba!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair though, whilst Herrera was about it wasn't a case of setting up the midfield to suit one player, because for the last five or so years, we've had a squad on balance best suited to a 4-3-3.
Really, we've just been short of more attacking fullbacks (or at least have constrained the attacking fullbacks we have).
Lukaku and Martial are best suited (for different reasons) to playing in a three man attack with wide forwards, as was Ibra. Di Maria would have been, ditto Sanchez if he wasn't dogpat.
Again, for different reasons, Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Schweinsteiger and Carrick are/were, and Young and Valencia should have been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We may not have been so actively setting up the team to suit Pogba, but what I suppose I mean is that in order to get the best from him, we have to play him on the left of a midfield three. For me that's too restrictive and means we either commit to that formation/shape, or we carry a player not in his best role and not especially effective otherwise.
Essentially he's a luxury player - an excellent one on his day - but I just feel we'd be better off bringing in players who are more adept in more than one midfield role. He also brings baggage with him - again, not always of his own making - so if we could use the money we'd get for him wisely, I'd be all for it. Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves... These are quality players, at good ages, who are dynamic and hard-working. They are also available this summer by all accounts.
Go and get three of them and replace Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a fair point of view, and I wouldn't argue against it too hard either.
I'm not sure about the availability of Neves, in particular; but I don't think there are too many people who would argue that Pogba out and three of those four in wouldn't put us in a stronger position at the start of next season.
The other attractive view is Ji's. If we were to pick up, say, Rice and Tielemens (or even someone like Gueye - a tidy player with an engine and a tackle), we'd have decent options at DM and competition in the B2B role.
And if you add a bit more movement in front with a quicker, more dynamic front three (from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Chong, Lingard), then Pogba has a completely different platform to create on and tools at his disposal.
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 59 seconds ago
Berba King
Hypothetically you are correct but do you believe honestly we will invest money in 2 quality midfielders? Firstly they could easily flop under the pressure as just look at how bad we are and the media circus. Playing for us right now is very hard it’s also so hard to manage as we’ve seen with the previous managers.
Fred was meant to be a good player. Now look? Could same happen to L Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves etc? Most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred was a risky signing. At the risk of sounding a bit SE85, we've brought in a Brazilian who was plying his trade in the Ukraine. He was always going to require time to adapt.
Not only that, but I've watched him closely both for us and on a few occasions for Shaktar, as well as a few clips and I had some reservations about his game.
If - and it's a big if - he can have a good pre-season, settle a little more and get up to speed with the league, in combination with a style of play more suited to his higher tempo game, he might be ok.
But my point is that I wouldn't caution signing talented PL proven players who are both adapted to the league and more culturally closer to western Europe based on signing a South American from Ukraine.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ji
Pretty sure that was mostly my argument against yourself when we were going to sign him.
Welcome to the dark side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it 100% wasn't
In fact, it took you a full 6 months and various posters telling you that he has ALWAYS held onto the ball too long.
Let's not play revisionism.
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Pogba has become an unnecessary distraction - not entirely of his own making in fairness - but I can't help but feel we might be better off cashing in and transforming the midfield into a more functional unit, rather than try to set up the midfield to get the best out of one player.
We'd be looking at completely overhauling the entire midfield in one window, which of course is going to cost money, but there seems to be three young, hungry, hard-working and talented midfielders with a good blend of attributes available this summer in Tielemens, Rice & Fernandes.
The likelihood of bring in three midfielders alone seems very slim in one window, but if we are to lose Pogba as well as Herrera, we need two just to break-even numbers wise. And we needed a quality midfielder to come into the team even with Herrera & Pogba!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair though, whilst Herrera was about it wasn't a case of setting up the midfield to suit one player, because for the last five or so years, we've had a squad on balance best suited to a 4-3-3.
Really, we've just been short of more attacking fullbacks (or at least have constrained the attacking fullbacks we have).
Lukaku and Martial are best suited (for different reasons) to playing in a three man attack with wide forwards, as was Ibra. Di Maria would have been, ditto Sanchez if he wasn't dogpat.
Again, for different reasons, Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Schweinsteiger and Carrick are/were, and Young and Valencia should have been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We may not have been so actively setting up the team to suit Pogba, but what I suppose I mean is that in order to get the best from him, we have to play him on the left of a midfield three. For me that's too restrictive and means we either commit to that formation/shape, or we carry a player not in his best role and not especially effective otherwise.
Essentially he's a luxury player - an excellent one on his day - but I just feel we'd be better off bringing in players who are more adept in more than one midfield role. He also brings baggage with him - again, not always of his own making - so if we could use the money we'd get for him wisely, I'd be all for it. Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves... These are quality players, at good ages, who are dynamic and hard-working. They are also available this summer by all accounts.
Go and get three of them and replace Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a fair point of view, and I wouldn't argue against it too hard either.
I'm not sure about the availability of Neves, in particular; but I don't think there are too many people who would argue that Pogba out and three of those four in wouldn't put us in a stronger position at the start of next season.
The other attractive view is Ji's. If we were to pick up, say, Rice and Tielemens (or even someone like Gueye - a tidy player with an engine and a tackle), we'd have decent options at DM and competition in the B2B role.
And if you add a bit more movement in front with a quicker, more dynamic front three (from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Chong, Lingard), then Pogba has a completely different platform to create on and tools at his disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. Rice & Tielemens in there with Pogba would be a dynamic, technical, mobile midfield.
Though those forward options look poor to me. Greenwood looks the most talented of the lot but he's too young to rely on at this stage.
We need a quality attacker who can primarily operate from the RHS and who has a track record of end product.
With the money he'd sell for, we'd probably be better off investing that in two quality midfielders who would offer better overall balance to the team
--------------
On paper, that sounds great... In reality we will probably be stuck with two lesser players, neither of whom would come close to Pogba's goals/assists, when the team hit form.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 59 seconds ago
Berba King
Hypothetically you are correct but do you believe honestly we will invest money in 2 quality midfielders? Firstly they could easily flop under the pressure as just look at how bad we are and the media circus. Playing for us right now is very hard it’s also so hard to manage as we’ve seen with the previous managers.
Fred was meant to be a good player. Now look? Could same happen to L Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves etc? Most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred was a risky signing. At the risk of sounding a bit SE85, we've brought in a Brazilian who was plying his trade in the Ukraine. He was always going to require time to adapt.
Not only that, but I've watched him closely both for us and on a few occasions for Shaktar, as well as a few clips and I had some reservations about his game.
If - and it's a big if - he can have a good pre-season, settle a little more and get up to speed with the league, in combination with a style of play more suited to his higher tempo game, he might be ok.
But my point is that I wouldn't caution signing talented PL proven players who are both adapted to the league and more culturally closer to western Europe based on signing a South American from Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not even a daft thing to say. No idea why so many people lose their minds over it. The evidence is overwhelming. We have bought too many South Americans. They are a bigger gamble and they do take longer to settle on average. It's not even a debate. It's stone cold facts.
There's not been many like Aguero who have hit the ground running in the PL. There are obviously others who have done well but the large portion have struggled.
The culture, climate and style of football is just so different to what they know.
I have seen loads of people call for us to sign Dybala n James Rodriguez this summer.
I remember being ridiculed for writing Anderson off before anyone else did. I was right all along. He's a fat waste of space playing in second division in Brazil last time I heard.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Pogba has become an unnecessary distraction - not entirely of his own making in fairness - but I can't help but feel we might be better off cashing in and transforming the midfield into a more functional unit, rather than try to set up the midfield to get the best out of one player.
We'd be looking at completely overhauling the entire midfield in one window, which of course is going to cost money, but there seems to be three young, hungry, hard-working and talented midfielders with a good blend of attributes available this summer in Tielemens, Rice & Fernandes.
The likelihood of bring in three midfielders alone seems very slim in one window, but if we are to lose Pogba as well as Herrera, we need two just to break-even numbers wise. And we needed a quality midfielder to come into the team even with Herrera & Pogba!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair though, whilst Herrera was about it wasn't a case of setting up the midfield to suit one player, because for the last five or so years, we've had a squad on balance best suited to a 4-3-3.
Really, we've just been short of more attacking fullbacks (or at least have constrained the attacking fullbacks we have).
Lukaku and Martial are best suited (for different reasons) to playing in a three man attack with wide forwards, as was Ibra. Di Maria would have been, ditto Sanchez if he wasn't dogpat.
Again, for different reasons, Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Schweinsteiger and Carrick are/were, and Young and Valencia should have been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We may not have been so actively setting up the team to suit Pogba, but what I suppose I mean is that in order to get the best from him, we have to play him on the left of a midfield three. For me that's too restrictive and means we either commit to that formation/shape, or we carry a player not in his best role and not especially effective otherwise.
Essentially he's a luxury player - an excellent one on his day - but I just feel we'd be better off bringing in players who are more adept in more than one midfield role. He also brings baggage with him - again, not always of his own making - so if we could use the money we'd get for him wisely, I'd be all for it. Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves... These are quality players, at good ages, who are dynamic and hard-working. They are also available this summer by all accounts.
Go and get three of them and replace Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a fair point of view, and I wouldn't argue against it too hard either.
I'm not sure about the availability of Neves, in particular; but I don't think there are too many people who would argue that Pogba out and three of those four in wouldn't put us in a stronger position at the start of next season.
The other attractive view is Ji's. If we were to pick up, say, Rice and Tielemens (or even someone like Gueye - a tidy player with an engine and a tackle), we'd have decent options at DM and competition in the B2B role.
And if you add a bit more movement in front with a quicker, more dynamic front three (from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Chong, Lingard), then Pogba has a completely different platform to create on and tools at his disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. Rice & Tielemens in there with Pogba would be a dynamic, technical, mobile midfield.
Though those forward options look poor to me. Greenwood looks the most talented of the lot but he's too young to rely on at this stage.
We need a quality attacker who can primarily operate from the RHS and who has a track record of end product.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ribery and Robben.
Sorted.
comment by Robb Ferguson (U21234)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Bit disingenuous to compare the Sterling and Pogba situations. In fact it’s insulting to compare the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know nothing about that type of targeted abuse. Stick to your Ole our articles!
That is why I said mostly Ji.
I told you he was lazy, I told you he was inconsistent, I told you he had an attitude problem and I told you he needed good players around him like he had at Juve
Being the way you are you even had me list games I had watched to form my opinions.
All of which have been proved to be correct.
Not revisionism ( your fave comment at present) but how it was. Perhaps you are the one who practices revisionism.
It all depends were pogba's head and heart is at and of course if the offer from Spain becomes a reality
He's one of a few issues that ole could do with being sorted sooner rather than later. We need a another summer of pogba speculation like hole in the head
Rice reminds me of Eric Dier, I’m still not sold on him.
On selling Pogba I’m in two minds, because I think he’s a quality player and has shown his ability when we’ve set up in a higher tempo attacking style.
But then there’s the issue of his attitude and the impact that could have on the dressing room if he’s forced to stay. And there’s also the fact he isn’t actually the best at pressing, which creates problems if you are setting up to do that, so a less gifted but more suitable player for that style could give us a better platform to compete in the midfield.
Difficult decision to make really. Glad it’s not up to me.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona đđź đľđ¸ (U18082)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Robb Ferguson (U21234)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Bit disingenuous to compare the Sterling and Pogba situations. In fact it’s insulting to compare the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know nothing about that type of targeted abuse. Stick to your Ole our articles!
----------------------
Are you saying Pogba is singled out because of his skin colour?
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 59 seconds ago
Berba King
Hypothetically you are correct but do you believe honestly we will invest money in 2 quality midfielders? Firstly they could easily flop under the pressure as just look at how bad we are and the media circus. Playing for us right now is very hard it’s also so hard to manage as we’ve seen with the previous managers.
Fred was meant to be a good player. Now look? Could same happen to L Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves etc? Most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred was a risky signing. At the risk of sounding a bit SE85, we've brought in a Brazilian who was plying his trade in the Ukraine. He was always going to require time to adapt.
Not only that, but I've watched him closely both for us and on a few occasions for Shaktar, as well as a few clips and I had some reservations about his game.
If - and it's a big if - he can have a good pre-season, settle a little more and get up to speed with the league, in combination with a style of play more suited to his higher tempo game, he might be ok.
But my point is that I wouldn't caution signing talented PL proven players who are both adapted to the league and more culturally closer to western Europe based on signing a South American from Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not even a daft thing to say. No idea why so many people lose their minds over it. The evidence is overwhelming. We have bought too many South Americans. They are a bigger gamble and they do take longer to settle on average. It's not even a debate. It's stone cold facts.
There's not been many like Aguero who have hit the ground running in the PL. There are obviously others who have done well but the large portion have struggled.
The culture, climate and style of football is just so different to what they know.
I have seen loads of people call for us to sign Dybala n James Rodriguez this summer.
I remember being ridiculed for writing Anderson off before anyone else did. I was right all along. He's a fat waste of space playing in second division in Brazil last time I heard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of Latin/South American have been good to excellent in the PL:
Heinze
Tevez
Gilberto
Aguero
Juninho
Sanchez
Hernandez
Valencia
Fabinho
Suarez
Mascherano
Felipe Anderson
Fernandinho
Allison
Firmino
Davison Sanchez
Rafael
etc etc
What distorts your thinking I'd imagine is that we - and many other PL clubs - simply haven't acquired the services of the really top, top South American players for the most part, with the exception of Di Maria and Veron for us (who wasn't a bad player for us, especially in Europe).
The players that have been flops for us from S.America simply haven't been that good to begin with. That players from continents further afield may take time to adapt isn't really surprising, so we should factor that in, but that's not unique to South Americans.
Nice of that little jumped up midget Evra to make an excuse for his countryman but label Sanchez as a money grabber.
The whole Pogba transfer was a money grab orchestrated by his fat agent and himself. Then you had the ridiculous announcement of the signing, his silly haircuts every other day, his attention grabbing posts on social media, his quite frankly, shiiiite performances and then to top it all off, he falls out with Mourinho and then plays well for one or two games and reverts back to type. He should just retire from football.
Rice is only going to get better and at 20 hes already being spoken of as captain material
Dazza
I feel similar on Pogba. When he is on his game he is top drawer. The stats back that up. But it is so infrequent. When he is off his game he is really gash.
I am in the camp that will sell him if the offer is too good to refuse.
If Pogba wants to stay and knuckles down then he's an asset in my eyes. If he wants to leave though then I hope it's done quickly with no fuss.
Maybe I'm being too positive here but I'll give all the players a clean slate from now on (meaning they also have it all to prove) in the hope a team fit to wear the shirt emerges.
Sign in if you want to comment
Evra comments
Page 5 of 11
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posted on 14/5/19
Let's be honest, Pogba doesn't want to be at OT. He doesn't have the heart for the battle we face.
-----------------------
This ^
posted on 14/5/19
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 3 seconds ago
People have dumb expectations of Pogba. They hate him for no good reason when he’s easily our only good midfielder. Good luck to them! Matic and mctominay it is next season and what ever mid table player we sign
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think anyone disputes his quality as a player, but there are issues:
- Played anywhere but the LCM role (in a three) and he's not nearly as effective
- He's prone to switching off and not tracking runners and it's cost us goals before
- He brings and/or attracts the wrong sort of attention in terms of speculation, controversy and so on. Not always of his own making, but it's a bit of a circus all the same
- With the money he'd sell for, we'd probably be better off investing that in two quality midfielders who would offer better overall balance to the team
posted on 14/5/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/5/19
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 3 minutes ago
Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves..
I bet you we won’t sign any of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right - you probably are. There are of course plenty of other options out there that could be just as good. I simply don't have the knowledge of what and who else is on the continent that may tick some of the boxes.
posted on 14/5/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 5 minutes ago
What I don't really get is that some of the most vocal people now against Pogba were the most vocal about praising him through the good run... Did they really not notice the injuries to Matic and Herrera (and key attackers? It's frankly weird.
If we get someone better than Herrera (not impossible) we could be good to go, with Matic/McT fighting it out for the other spot.
If he wants out, fine.. bye bye... But if he wants to stay... Then we just need a Herrera replacement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he genuinely wants to stay then great. We need to replace Herrera and we still need a quality midfield addition as well. We need two midfielders now that Herrera has left in my view.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Pogba/player X and on of Fred, Matic, Pereira, McTominay. Fred may well be off next summer if he still doesn't look up to speed and Matic is of an age where we'd be looking for young and better next summer, too.
posted on 14/5/19
I reckon we’ll sign that Bruno Fernandes.
posted on 14/5/19
Ji
Pretty sure that was mostly my argument against yourself when we were going to sign him.
Welcome to the dark side.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Pogba has become an unnecessary distraction - not entirely of his own making in fairness - but I can't help but feel we might be better off cashing in and transforming the midfield into a more functional unit, rather than try to set up the midfield to get the best out of one player.
We'd be looking at completely overhauling the entire midfield in one window, which of course is going to cost money, but there seems to be three young, hungry, hard-working and talented midfielders with a good blend of attributes available this summer in Tielemens, Rice & Fernandes.
The likelihood of bring in three midfielders alone seems very slim in one window, but if we are to lose Pogba as well as Herrera, we need two just to break-even numbers wise. And we needed a quality midfielder to come into the team even with Herrera & Pogba!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair though, whilst Herrera was about it wasn't a case of setting up the midfield to suit one player, because for the last five or so years, we've had a squad on balance best suited to a 4-3-3.
Really, we've just been short of more attacking fullbacks (or at least have constrained the attacking fullbacks we have).
Lukaku and Martial are best suited (for different reasons) to playing in a three man attack with wide forwards, as was Ibra. Di Maria would have been, ditto Sanchez if he wasn't dogpat.
Again, for different reasons, Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Schweinsteiger and Carrick are/were, and Young and Valencia should have been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We may not have been so actively setting up the team to suit Pogba, but what I suppose I mean is that in order to get the best from him, we have to play him on the left of a midfield three. For me that's too restrictive and means we either commit to that formation/shape, or we carry a player not in his best role and not especially effective otherwise.
Essentially he's a luxury player - an excellent one on his day - but I just feel we'd be better off bringing in players who are more adept in more than one midfield role. He also brings baggage with him - again, not always of his own making - so if we could use the money we'd get for him wisely, I'd be all for it. Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves... These are quality players, at good ages, who are dynamic and hard-working. They are also available this summer by all accounts.
Go and get three of them and replace Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a fair point of view, and I wouldn't argue against it too hard either.
I'm not sure about the availability of Neves, in particular; but I don't think there are too many people who would argue that Pogba out and three of those four in wouldn't put us in a stronger position at the start of next season.
The other attractive view is Ji's. If we were to pick up, say, Rice and Tielemens (or even someone like Gueye - a tidy player with an engine and a tackle), we'd have decent options at DM and competition in the B2B role.
And if you add a bit more movement in front with a quicker, more dynamic front three (from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Chong, Lingard), then Pogba has a completely different platform to create on and tools at his disposal.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 59 seconds ago
Berba King
Hypothetically you are correct but do you believe honestly we will invest money in 2 quality midfielders? Firstly they could easily flop under the pressure as just look at how bad we are and the media circus. Playing for us right now is very hard it’s also so hard to manage as we’ve seen with the previous managers.
Fred was meant to be a good player. Now look? Could same happen to L Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves etc? Most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred was a risky signing. At the risk of sounding a bit SE85, we've brought in a Brazilian who was plying his trade in the Ukraine. He was always going to require time to adapt.
Not only that, but I've watched him closely both for us and on a few occasions for Shaktar, as well as a few clips and I had some reservations about his game.
If - and it's a big if - he can have a good pre-season, settle a little more and get up to speed with the league, in combination with a style of play more suited to his higher tempo game, he might be ok.
But my point is that I wouldn't caution signing talented PL proven players who are both adapted to the league and more culturally closer to western Europe based on signing a South American from Ukraine.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
Ji
Pretty sure that was mostly my argument against yourself when we were going to sign him.
Welcome to the dark side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it 100% wasn't
In fact, it took you a full 6 months and various posters telling you that he has ALWAYS held onto the ball too long.
Let's not play revisionism.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Pogba has become an unnecessary distraction - not entirely of his own making in fairness - but I can't help but feel we might be better off cashing in and transforming the midfield into a more functional unit, rather than try to set up the midfield to get the best out of one player.
We'd be looking at completely overhauling the entire midfield in one window, which of course is going to cost money, but there seems to be three young, hungry, hard-working and talented midfielders with a good blend of attributes available this summer in Tielemens, Rice & Fernandes.
The likelihood of bring in three midfielders alone seems very slim in one window, but if we are to lose Pogba as well as Herrera, we need two just to break-even numbers wise. And we needed a quality midfielder to come into the team even with Herrera & Pogba!
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To be fair though, whilst Herrera was about it wasn't a case of setting up the midfield to suit one player, because for the last five or so years, we've had a squad on balance best suited to a 4-3-3.
Really, we've just been short of more attacking fullbacks (or at least have constrained the attacking fullbacks we have).
Lukaku and Martial are best suited (for different reasons) to playing in a three man attack with wide forwards, as was Ibra. Di Maria would have been, ditto Sanchez if he wasn't dogpat.
Again, for different reasons, Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Schweinsteiger and Carrick are/were, and Young and Valencia should have been.
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We may not have been so actively setting up the team to suit Pogba, but what I suppose I mean is that in order to get the best from him, we have to play him on the left of a midfield three. For me that's too restrictive and means we either commit to that formation/shape, or we carry a player not in his best role and not especially effective otherwise.
Essentially he's a luxury player - an excellent one on his day - but I just feel we'd be better off bringing in players who are more adept in more than one midfield role. He also brings baggage with him - again, not always of his own making - so if we could use the money we'd get for him wisely, I'd be all for it. Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves... These are quality players, at good ages, who are dynamic and hard-working. They are also available this summer by all accounts.
Go and get three of them and replace Pogba.
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I think this is a fair point of view, and I wouldn't argue against it too hard either.
I'm not sure about the availability of Neves, in particular; but I don't think there are too many people who would argue that Pogba out and three of those four in wouldn't put us in a stronger position at the start of next season.
The other attractive view is Ji's. If we were to pick up, say, Rice and Tielemens (or even someone like Gueye - a tidy player with an engine and a tackle), we'd have decent options at DM and competition in the B2B role.
And if you add a bit more movement in front with a quicker, more dynamic front three (from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Chong, Lingard), then Pogba has a completely different platform to create on and tools at his disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. Rice & Tielemens in there with Pogba would be a dynamic, technical, mobile midfield.
Though those forward options look poor to me. Greenwood looks the most talented of the lot but he's too young to rely on at this stage.
We need a quality attacker who can primarily operate from the RHS and who has a track record of end product.
posted on 14/5/19
With the money he'd sell for, we'd probably be better off investing that in two quality midfielders who would offer better overall balance to the team
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On paper, that sounds great... In reality we will probably be stuck with two lesser players, neither of whom would come close to Pogba's goals/assists, when the team hit form.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 59 seconds ago
Berba King
Hypothetically you are correct but do you believe honestly we will invest money in 2 quality midfielders? Firstly they could easily flop under the pressure as just look at how bad we are and the media circus. Playing for us right now is very hard it’s also so hard to manage as we’ve seen with the previous managers.
Fred was meant to be a good player. Now look? Could same happen to L Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves etc? Most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred was a risky signing. At the risk of sounding a bit SE85, we've brought in a Brazilian who was plying his trade in the Ukraine. He was always going to require time to adapt.
Not only that, but I've watched him closely both for us and on a few occasions for Shaktar, as well as a few clips and I had some reservations about his game.
If - and it's a big if - he can have a good pre-season, settle a little more and get up to speed with the league, in combination with a style of play more suited to his higher tempo game, he might be ok.
But my point is that I wouldn't caution signing talented PL proven players who are both adapted to the league and more culturally closer to western Europe based on signing a South American from Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not even a daft thing to say. No idea why so many people lose their minds over it. The evidence is overwhelming. We have bought too many South Americans. They are a bigger gamble and they do take longer to settle on average. It's not even a debate. It's stone cold facts.
There's not been many like Aguero who have hit the ground running in the PL. There are obviously others who have done well but the large portion have struggled.
The culture, climate and style of football is just so different to what they know.
I have seen loads of people call for us to sign Dybala n James Rodriguez this summer.
I remember being ridiculed for writing Anderson off before anyone else did. I was right all along. He's a fat waste of space playing in second division in Brazil last time I heard.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Pogba has become an unnecessary distraction - not entirely of his own making in fairness - but I can't help but feel we might be better off cashing in and transforming the midfield into a more functional unit, rather than try to set up the midfield to get the best out of one player.
We'd be looking at completely overhauling the entire midfield in one window, which of course is going to cost money, but there seems to be three young, hungry, hard-working and talented midfielders with a good blend of attributes available this summer in Tielemens, Rice & Fernandes.
The likelihood of bring in three midfielders alone seems very slim in one window, but if we are to lose Pogba as well as Herrera, we need two just to break-even numbers wise. And we needed a quality midfielder to come into the team even with Herrera & Pogba!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair though, whilst Herrera was about it wasn't a case of setting up the midfield to suit one player, because for the last five or so years, we've had a squad on balance best suited to a 4-3-3.
Really, we've just been short of more attacking fullbacks (or at least have constrained the attacking fullbacks we have).
Lukaku and Martial are best suited (for different reasons) to playing in a three man attack with wide forwards, as was Ibra. Di Maria would have been, ditto Sanchez if he wasn't dogpat.
Again, for different reasons, Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Schweinsteiger and Carrick are/were, and Young and Valencia should have been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We may not have been so actively setting up the team to suit Pogba, but what I suppose I mean is that in order to get the best from him, we have to play him on the left of a midfield three. For me that's too restrictive and means we either commit to that formation/shape, or we carry a player not in his best role and not especially effective otherwise.
Essentially he's a luxury player - an excellent one on his day - but I just feel we'd be better off bringing in players who are more adept in more than one midfield role. He also brings baggage with him - again, not always of his own making - so if we could use the money we'd get for him wisely, I'd be all for it. Like I say: Rice, Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves... These are quality players, at good ages, who are dynamic and hard-working. They are also available this summer by all accounts.
Go and get three of them and replace Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a fair point of view, and I wouldn't argue against it too hard either.
I'm not sure about the availability of Neves, in particular; but I don't think there are too many people who would argue that Pogba out and three of those four in wouldn't put us in a stronger position at the start of next season.
The other attractive view is Ji's. If we were to pick up, say, Rice and Tielemens (or even someone like Gueye - a tidy player with an engine and a tackle), we'd have decent options at DM and competition in the B2B role.
And if you add a bit more movement in front with a quicker, more dynamic front three (from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Chong, Lingard), then Pogba has a completely different platform to create on and tools at his disposal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. Rice & Tielemens in there with Pogba would be a dynamic, technical, mobile midfield.
Though those forward options look poor to me. Greenwood looks the most talented of the lot but he's too young to rely on at this stage.
We need a quality attacker who can primarily operate from the RHS and who has a track record of end product.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ribery and Robben.
Sorted.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Robb Ferguson (U21234)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Bit disingenuous to compare the Sterling and Pogba situations. In fact it’s insulting to compare the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know nothing about that type of targeted abuse. Stick to your Ole our articles!
posted on 14/5/19
That is why I said mostly Ji.
I told you he was lazy, I told you he was inconsistent, I told you he had an attitude problem and I told you he needed good players around him like he had at Juve
Being the way you are you even had me list games I had watched to form my opinions.
All of which have been proved to be correct.
Not revisionism ( your fave comment at present) but how it was. Perhaps you are the one who practices revisionism.
posted on 14/5/19
It all depends were pogba's head and heart is at and of course if the offer from Spain becomes a reality
He's one of a few issues that ole could do with being sorted sooner rather than later. We need a another summer of pogba speculation like hole in the head
posted on 14/5/19
Rice reminds me of Eric Dier, I’m still not sold on him.
On selling Pogba I’m in two minds, because I think he’s a quality player and has shown his ability when we’ve set up in a higher tempo attacking style.
But then there’s the issue of his attitude and the impact that could have on the dressing room if he’s forced to stay. And there’s also the fact he isn’t actually the best at pressing, which creates problems if you are setting up to do that, so a less gifted but more suitable player for that style could give us a better platform to compete in the midfield.
Difficult decision to make really. Glad it’s not up to me.
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Kung Fu Cantona đđź đľđ¸ (U18082)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Robb Ferguson (U21234)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Bit disingenuous to compare the Sterling and Pogba situations. In fact it’s insulting to compare the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know nothing about that type of targeted abuse. Stick to your Ole our articles!
----------------------
Are you saying Pogba is singled out because of his skin colour?
posted on 14/5/19
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 59 seconds ago
Berba King
Hypothetically you are correct but do you believe honestly we will invest money in 2 quality midfielders? Firstly they could easily flop under the pressure as just look at how bad we are and the media circus. Playing for us right now is very hard it’s also so hard to manage as we’ve seen with the previous managers.
Fred was meant to be a good player. Now look? Could same happen to L Tielemens, Fernandes, Neves etc? Most likely
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred was a risky signing. At the risk of sounding a bit SE85, we've brought in a Brazilian who was plying his trade in the Ukraine. He was always going to require time to adapt.
Not only that, but I've watched him closely both for us and on a few occasions for Shaktar, as well as a few clips and I had some reservations about his game.
If - and it's a big if - he can have a good pre-season, settle a little more and get up to speed with the league, in combination with a style of play more suited to his higher tempo game, he might be ok.
But my point is that I wouldn't caution signing talented PL proven players who are both adapted to the league and more culturally closer to western Europe based on signing a South American from Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not even a daft thing to say. No idea why so many people lose their minds over it. The evidence is overwhelming. We have bought too many South Americans. They are a bigger gamble and they do take longer to settle on average. It's not even a debate. It's stone cold facts.
There's not been many like Aguero who have hit the ground running in the PL. There are obviously others who have done well but the large portion have struggled.
The culture, climate and style of football is just so different to what they know.
I have seen loads of people call for us to sign Dybala n James Rodriguez this summer.
I remember being ridiculed for writing Anderson off before anyone else did. I was right all along. He's a fat waste of space playing in second division in Brazil last time I heard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of Latin/South American have been good to excellent in the PL:
Heinze
Tevez
Gilberto
Aguero
Juninho
Sanchez
Hernandez
Valencia
Fabinho
Suarez
Mascherano
Felipe Anderson
Fernandinho
Allison
Firmino
Davison Sanchez
Rafael
etc etc
What distorts your thinking I'd imagine is that we - and many other PL clubs - simply haven't acquired the services of the really top, top South American players for the most part, with the exception of Di Maria and Veron for us (who wasn't a bad player for us, especially in Europe).
The players that have been flops for us from S.America simply haven't been that good to begin with. That players from continents further afield may take time to adapt isn't really surprising, so we should factor that in, but that's not unique to South Americans.
posted on 14/5/19
Nice of that little jumped up midget Evra to make an excuse for his countryman but label Sanchez as a money grabber.
The whole Pogba transfer was a money grab orchestrated by his fat agent and himself. Then you had the ridiculous announcement of the signing, his silly haircuts every other day, his attention grabbing posts on social media, his quite frankly, shiiiite performances and then to top it all off, he falls out with Mourinho and then plays well for one or two games and reverts back to type. He should just retire from football.
posted on 14/5/19
Rice is only going to get better and at 20 hes already being spoken of as captain material
posted on 14/5/19
Dazza
I feel similar on Pogba. When he is on his game he is top drawer. The stats back that up. But it is so infrequent. When he is off his game he is really gash.
I am in the camp that will sell him if the offer is too good to refuse.
posted on 14/5/19
If Pogba wants to stay and knuckles down then he's an asset in my eyes. If he wants to leave though then I hope it's done quickly with no fuss.
Maybe I'm being too positive here but I'll give all the players a clean slate from now on (meaning they also have it all to prove) in the hope a team fit to wear the shirt emerges.
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