comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
His clueless, smug, pug looking face symbolises everything about him for me.
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This as well
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Ed Pugward
Evening Diafol.
I think most (probably all bar one) feel that Ed has failed.
On that note, is RDD banned? I thought he would be all over this article.
comment by babyen ansikt snikmorder (U9094)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
Evening Diafol.
I think most (probably all bar one) feel that Ed has failed.
On that note, is RDD banned? I thought he would be all over this article.
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Evening Babyen. I think he's failed as well.
The other Super Ed hasn't made an appearance here but I've not seen that he's banned. He's probably the only one on here that annoys me to be honest!
Ed has overseen one of the clubs most difficult periods.
He inherited the role from David Gill. A hugely well regarded exec in football.
He has had to deal with the loss of SAF, the greatest football manager ever, whose presence was huge throughout the whole club. Can anyone name a tougher task in football outside of players and management?
So, his first job is to appoint a manager. Now, SAF, was heavily involved in this decision making process and very supportive of the appointment of David Moyes who was considered the best available (Klopp was happy at Dortmund having just reached a champs league final. Jose was going back to Chelsea, Ancelotti was off to Real, Pep had signed for Bayern, Blanc for PSG and Allegri had finished 3rd with AC Milan) So Moyes got
the job because there was nobody better available and SAF backed him.
So, with Moyes appointed, Eds next task was to support Moyes improvement / overhaul of a relatively average squad. (key players being a very young DDG, Valencia, Kagawa, Rooney and RVP) Yes they might have won the title in SAF last season, but that is largely regarded to be down to the genius of SAF and the individual brilliance of RVP.
Moyes wanted Fellaini, but didnt want him to be his first signing because of the Everton link and putting pressure on the player. So, Moyes talked Ed into bidding for Bale, offer exceeding what Real eventually paid, only for the player to prefer a move to Real. Moyes and Ed them turned there attention to Fabregas, with Moyes saying he thought they'd got him right up until the window closed, with Fellaini becoming his only summer signing. Yes we overpaid but the delay in pursuing this was Moyes doing.
Despite Ed delivering Juan Mata, the team struggled and Moyes was rightly put out of his misery.
So approaching Summer 2014 and we need to replace Moyes. Klopp was still happy at Dortmund, Pep was at Bayern, Ancelotti was at Real, Jose was still at Chelsea. The best candidate available was deemed to be LVG.
So, in addition to already agreed deals for Herrera and Shaw, Ed delivered Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Falcao, Valdes,and later on, Martial, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin and Romero. Clearly LVG was backed to the hilt by ed with 10 of his targets delivered.
Despite the backing, LVG's style of football was poor with results not much better, resulting in an FA Cup win in his 2nd and finale season. Given his plans to retire he was eventually sacked, much to the delight of the large majority of United fans.
So, how do we replace LVG? Well, after 3 seasons of poor football and just 1 FA Cup win (Whilst City, Chelsea & Leicester won the league) with Mourinho being available, and other top candidates unavailable, the appointment of Jose made perfect sense at the time.
So Ed goes on to again back his manager, delivering Bailly, Ibra, Mhikitaryan, Pogba, Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez, Fred & Dalot. Another 10 players across 2 transfer windows.
Whilst Jose's style of play wasnt to everyone's taste, he did achieve relative success, winning 1 league cup, a Europa League cup and a 2nd place finish.
Sadly Jose's 3rd season didnt go well with the manager feeling the club hadn't backed him well enough transfer wise.
Now, apart from the fact Ed had delivered 24 players across the previous 5 seasons, at great expense, the suggestion Ed wouldn't make every effort to back his manager is ridiculous and unfounded. Why wouldnt he after backing him with a new contract? No. It is my belief that whilst Ed would have been happy to spend, not every player is attainable, especially given United continue to feel the effects of losing SAF, with several clubs currently being far more desirable options.
It's been said Ed is mistaken in not appointing a DOF or Technical director, with claims that we need a football expert to link the board with the manager. I disagree. The manager and scouts are more than capable of identifying targets and Ed and Judge are clearly able to deliver deals with players who want to join United.
So, is Ed the best CEO in football Probably not. But is he as bad as has been suggested by our fans? No. He is a scapegoat for frustrated fans who know far less about the goings of the club than they believe.
The suggestion he doesnt back managers is ridiculous after 24 signings across 5 seasons.
All clubs make bad signings, bad managerial appointments, miss out on targets. Not many execs however have had to pick up the pieces following the loss of such a succesful double act as SAF and Gill at such a huge club, under such scrutiny.
The suggestion he doesnt know anything about football is naive, disrespectful and unfounded.
He is also far more professional and respectful of the club he representsb compared with his counterparts at Bayern, City, PSG, Barca, Real or Juve, who have all experienced huge scandal over the last decade.
You made a decent post. I had to check out was actually you.
Ed's appointment to his position isn't his fault. That lies with the owners. He was a novice when given such a huge position at a club. His first priority has been to make money, rather than the footballing side of things and it has shown through his appointments, recruitment and interference in the team.
You could excuse him when he first took up the position. If he was earmarked to take on this position, they should have had him learn from Gill. From news of his first summer window, there were issues due to him and Moyes. Herrera and Shaw were signings try at they failed to complete in that window, which were completed in the next summer window. The pursuit of Fellaini and Baines took over most of the summer. You could excuse Cesc and Bale, the latter had his heart set on Real. Mata himself was an Ed signing.
In his next window, despite getting in LVG, didn't get all the signings that his manager wanted. Di Maria and Falcao were Ed signings (LVG has admitted this himself). One of whom didn'twwant to come and the other just returned from a long layoff so was a huge risk. He got in some signings that were wanted by the coach. Martial was recommended and scouted by Giggs. Who was said at the time was being primed to take over from LVG.
We can agree about LVG's style. It was slow and while we had lots of possession, and did well against top sides in the PL, the bottom sides just sat back and let us have the ball. He had to go.
The hiring of Jose had the fans split. I was against it due to what we knew about him at the time and that has been proven to be the case with his time here.
Ed did back Jose. Jose did complain about not getting in all the players he wanted, even though you could point to a few signings that were Ed rather than Jose (Pogba and Sanchez). Jose's complained that he didn't get the backing Pep did at City. He used the example of Bravo being replaced after a season and investment in 4 defenders at around 50m each. While he has that right to complain, he didn't do well with what he had bought in himself.
Ed also extended his contract midway through his second season, despite knowing Jose has a reputation of getting fired or quiting in his third season. It led to him paying off a huge compensation fee, after Jose threw a strop at not getting his way in transfer last summer. Something that has happened a few times at his previous clubs.
The appointment of Jose was shortsighted by Ed. Remember, LVG was brought in to bring a new style. When he was sacked, all that was ripped up and Jose had to implement his style. And then to extend and not back him was idiotic.
Now, I'm not going to blame him for each signings failure or achievement. He have let go of better players than we replaced or kept. Evans and Blind were let go, yet we kept Jones, Smalling and Rojo. Rafael was replaced by Darmian. These aren't on Ed.
Now, despite all this, if he cannot recognise he isn't the man to be dealing with the footballing side of things then he needs replacing in the role.
I have already mentioned in another thread about what I'd like to see him do, I'll repeat it briefly as I don't want to go over all that again.
If Ed, and is right hand man, only death with what you said, it would be fine.
Ole can deal with managing the players and requests the type of players he wants. We do need a TD/Dof with a committee (made out of scouts and/or explayers as well as the managerhhaving is in put) that can decide and build towards what style of play we want and sign players that suit the team.
If Ole fails and gets sacked and we bring in another manager who has completely different ideas, we will continue to struggle (LVG, Jose and Ole all have very different styles and needs from their players). Unless we get lucky, but we can't rely on that. We need to bring in a strategy.
He is also far more professional and respectful of the club he representsb compared with his counterparts at Bayern, City, PSG, Barca, Real or Juve, who have all experienced huge scandal over the last decade.
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That's all beside the point on whether he has done well or not on the footballing side of things.
His first priority has been to make money - How have you arrived at this ? Please don’t say it’s obvious, or if I don’t know I’m an idiot or other such nonsense.
His interference in on the team - Again, where have you got this from?
The pursuit of Fellaini and Baines took over most of the Summer - It really didn’t. United also tried for Bale and Fabregas among others.
Mata was an Ed signing - Again. Where have you got this from. Facts please.
DI Maria and Falcao were Ed signings - Nonsense, but happy to see your reasoning for believing so.
On Falcao, LVG has said he wanted a CF but “When you can’t have the 1st or 2nd choice, you have to be happy with 4th or 5th” and “I said we should take him on loan”. So, Falcao was on the list and LVG was behind the decision to loan.
Same with Di Maria, with LVG being quoted as saying that whilst ADM wasn’t his first pick, he was happy with the signing given the players talent.
The hiring of Jose had the fans split and was a short sighted appointment- I agree on the fans being split, I disagree it was short sighted. It wasn’t inevitable Jose would have a meltdown. And who was a better candidate at the time? For all his faults, Jose was free, wanted the job, and had a great record of winning major titles, something United desperately needed after 3 relatively poor seasons post SAF.
Pogba and Sanchez were more Ed signings than Jose - Again, id love to know where you have got this from.
At the time of his signing Jose described Pogba as one of the worlds best players and said he’d be a key player over the coming decade in the side he wanted to build. Hardly sounds upset does he?
On Sanchez, Jose had asked for a player with some magic, and was reported to have told Sanchez he could be Uniteds talisman. He was one of the league best players at this time. Amid the speculation prior to the deal being confirmed, Jose sounded excited at the potential signing.
Now, you say Ed and Judge just being involved in negotiating fees, wages and signing cheques is fine. That is there only role. The idea they decide who to sign is ridiculous. Of the managers list of targets, They get who wants to come and who’s demands aren’t outside of what the club want to pay.
You say you want a committee made up of the manager, scouts and ex players / a TD/DOF that can decide what style of play we want and sign the players that suit, it that is how we already operate apart from the ex player / DOF, whose involve,ent I don’t think is required. If you can’t trust the manager to identify layers that suit his style then he shouldn’t have the job. If scouts can’t identify the type of players the manager wants, they shouldn’t be in the job.
Again, it’s no good apppointing a DOF to decide right, I want us to play this way, only to then have to find a coach who is prepared to play this way.
We don’t need a DOF to have all age groups playing the same way. A small percentage of the clubs youngsters make it into the senior squad, and those that are deemed good enough train with the squad and therefore become familiar with the set up that way.
Another issue with a DOF is that you are then limiting yourself to a small pot of managers / coaches to pick from who are capable of such a demanding job, who will have their style or play and signings decided for them. You also have a very small number of suitable candidates for the DOF job should the current one move on.
Not out of June yet and Real have 4 players bought already
We've bought promising kid from Swansea
Good work Ed
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 9 minutes ago
Not out of June yet and Real have 4 players bought already
We've bought promising kid from Swansea
Good work Ed
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😢
Ed has overseen one of the clubs most difficult periods.
He inherited the role from David Gill. A hugely well regarded exec in football.
____________
saw your response to my post.
His first priority is to make money as that's what he was primarily hired to do. And he still does this. What is his first priority in your opinion?
Interference in team - Jose wanted to sell Martial. Was told he can't. (Whether I agree with the decision or not, that's interference). Jose wanted Perisic. Was told he was too old. Jose wanted another CB. Was denied signing one. All these point to interference with the team and on signings. These counter your opinion of the manager telling him what he wants and he goes out and gets him.
Even LVG, who said he was happy with Di Maria, he wasn't his choice of player. He said he wanted a creative player. Di Maria was signed. He was happy as he thought he was a creative player. He then went on to say he tried him in different positions to try and fit him into the side. On Falcao, He never said Falcao was his 4th or 5th choice. Just that when you can't have the 1st or 2md choice you move into the next and be happy with what you get. He doesn't specify whose it is. This could be due to the language barrier. What he does say was that it was his decision to make it a loan signing.
Fellaini and Baines were linked quite early on in the transfer window with news of bids made for both and them being turned down. Then things went quiet before Fellaini was signed after all another players we were linked with didn't come through.
I've already covered who other than Jose topic in the other thread.
Both Pogba and Sanchez were deemed either close to world class or world class when we signed them. No manager would be unhappy getting them. SAF himself did such signings. Veron, RVP are two that come mind. Sanchez was thought all but gone to City. It was considered a real coup at the time and a big thing was and still is made about his contract. Pogba had a high social media following before coming to United and have it increased. The Pogba deal wasn't just about what he brought to the team on the field. Jose isn't going to say that he doesn't want him nor will a manager be displeased about such a signing.
A manager being pleased with a player they regard as world class signing for them isn't the same as it being their choice.
"Now, you say Ed and Judge just being involved in negotiating fees, wages and signing cheques is fine. That is there only role. The idea they decide who to sign is ridiculous. Of the managers list of targets, They get who wants to come and who’s demands aren’t outside of what the club want to pay." - Jose was vetoed on getting in players deemed too old and on another CB. After that, Jose didn't refer to himself as Manager but headcoach.
On the points you made about the Dof, I have countered those exact same points several times now across different threads. You haven't responded to those. For instance, your past sentence about how to replace the Dof if the one we have leave. If you had read the previous replies, you'd see that said thay having a committee would help negate a fall out of that happening and would also give us the option to hire from within.
Apart from making money I can't think of anything Ed has managed to do in the last six years that has had a benefit to the football side of things.
He has been a massive failure.
And I say this as one of the few posters who gave him some leeway early on.
Also, on Mata, Moyes seemed to say he was surprised about several things with that transfer. Surprised he signed. Surprised Chelsea sold him. Surprised it happened in January.
CIC -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-woodward-call-highlights-16284370.amp
Interference in the team would be to demand a player is picked. Not saying that we wont sell a player.
Do you have quotes of Jose saying he wanted Perisic or evidence that Ed said he was too old?
CB - No club gets everyone they want. Jose and all of our managers post SAF have been backed hugely and at great cost though.
ADM - LVG didnt say he didnt want him and he was happy with his signing. LVG also referred to a list of players he wanted, so there was a list and Ed and Judge get who they can. No clubs gets everyone they want.
Falcao - so the facts are that LVG hasnt said he never wanted Falcao. Just that he was on a list of targets.
Fellaini and Baines - show me evidence of actual bids, being made for Fellaini and Baines, not speculation and newspaper gossip.
Pogba and Sanchez being Ed's decisions forced on the manager. So despite the manager being very happy with their signing and their being no EVIDENCE they were forced on him by Ed, you insist this was the case?
"Jose was vetoed on getting in players deemed too old and on another CB" And the quotes or.evidenxe are where ?
Hiring a DOF just means another opinion. They can come and go as often as a manger does. With this set up up you are limiting yourselves to a very small number of people available, capable of the job, happy to work with each other, that want to play the system the club wants and with the current players. If you get it right, it's great. Get it wrong and it's just a other person to blame.
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 6 hours, 3 minutes ago
Also, on Mata, Moyes seemed to say he was surprised about several things with that transfer. Surprised he signed. Surprised Chelsea sold him. Surprised it happened in January.
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Because he disnt think we could get him, not that he didnt know we were trying.
Because he disnt think we could get him, not that he didnt know we were trying.
...
Do you have factual evidence of that RDD?
Interference in the team would be to demand a player is picked. Not saying that we wont sell a player.
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Then we disagree on what that means and no point discussing it further.
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Do you have quotes of Jose saying he wanted Perisic or evidence that Ed said he was too old?
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Other than press speculation, we don't have any solid evidence of most of these. Take your rebuttal to my point on Moyes take in signing Mata. There is no solid evidence of your point.
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CB - No club gets everyone they want. Jose and all of our managers post SAF have been backed hugely and at great cost though.
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Jose made a big thing about not getting one in. Then referred to himself as Head coach rather than Manager. Now, Ed has backed him. He also decided when not to. Once that happened, he should have e
sacked him.
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ADM - LVG didnt say he didnt want him and he was happy with his signing. LVG also referred to a list of players he wanted, so there was a list and Ed and Judge get who they can. No clubs gets everyone they want.
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Di Maria wasn't his signing, Van Gaal has said that. We can agree there was a list. Who decided who are 1st or 5th choice is not clear by what Van Gaal said.
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Falcao - so the facts are that LVG hasnt said he never wanted Falcao. Just that he was on a list of targets.
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Did he clearly say that? It seems a bit ambiguous. Could be due to English not being good native language.
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Fellaini and Baines - show me evidence of actual bids, being made for Fellaini and Baines, not speculation and newspaper gossip.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2377656/Roberto-Martinez-confirms-Man-United-bids-Leighton-Baines-Marouane-Fellaini.html
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/07/manchester-united-marouane-fellaini-leighton-baines
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/23753129
From the press reporting our interest to bids being made. We dithered in trying to sign both of them and ended up getting one for about what we wanted for both.
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Pogba and Sanchez being Ed's decisions forced on the manager. So despite the manager being very happy with their signing and their being no EVIDENCE they were forced on him by Ed, you insist this was the case?
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Being happy getting a player is not the same as him being your choice. Sanchez was City bound. Leaks suggest he was brought in due to his profile and to appease Jose as his choice of Perisic was rejected. I can't provide evidence as these are from the media. Can you provide evidence that these were both chosen by Jose himself?
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Jose was vetoed on getting in players deemed too old and on another CB" And the quotes or.evidenxe are where ?
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Again, press has reported it. While we can't believe everything, we can't dismiss them. Especially when more than one outlet reports them over a period of time.
https://www.football365.com/news/the-reasons-why-man-utd-vetoed-mourinhos-transfer-wishlist
http://hilltopmonitor.com/2018/08/why-manchester-united-vetoed-jose-mourinhos-short-term-fixes/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8131311/manchester-united-vetoed-jose-mourinho-toby-alderweireld/
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Hiring a DOF just means another opinion. They can come and go as often as a manger does. With this set up up you are limiting yourselves to a very small number of people available, capable of the job, happy to work with each other, that want to play the system the club wants and with the current players. If you get it right, it's great. Get it wrong and it's just a other person to blame.
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As I've said, I've countered those points.
We already have those above the manager preventing what players he wants, but why are people who know little about the sport making decisions?
We also have seen that this set up works across Europe such as Ajax, Sevilla, Dortmund, Roma, etc. and City and Liverpool have a team that deal with it rather than just an individual.
We also seen teams in other approaches that also work, such as Bayern and Lyon, who have people who have football know how to deal with these (ex players, those who worked in other background roles). We have two guys who don't and have been called out on by our former Manager(s).
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The hiring of Jose had the fans split and was a short sighted appointment- I agree on the fans being split, I disagree it was short sighted. It wasn’t inevitable Jose would have a meltdown. And who was a better candidate at the time? For all his faults, Jose was free, wanted the job, and had a great record of winning major titles, something United desperately needed after 3 relatively poor seasons post SAF.
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Also, I forgot to address the point about Jose. You said we didn't know he would do what he did. Something quite funny as this was predicted to happen. Had happened a few times before. He was also known as a short term manager and his short termism wasn't backed, that led to his meltdown. Something that happened at his previous job. Its odd to hire someone known for his traits and then don't break him in what he does.
So basically you are quoting media speculation as fact.
I think iv clearly won that one.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Super Ed (U22147)
posted 31 minutes ago
So basically you are quoting media speculation as fact.
I think iv clearly won that one.
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I don't think I've ever seen you win anything on here RDD
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You have now treacle
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Nope what? I asked the guy for facts in support of his claims. He provided newspaper speculation.
You haven't provided much in the way of evidence either. For example, I quoted Moyes being surprised by the Mata signing. You gave your own opinion on what he meant. Where is the evidence for your interpretation of what he meant?
I linked to papers saying we were interested in signing both Baines and Fellaini, and then another that's a few weeks later that were bids being rejected for the pair (with quotes from Everton in them). The latter shows that the former "speculation" was correct. Yet you dismissed these.
Jose himself complained about not getting signings in and labeled himself a "headcoach" when it happened. You have dismissed this as well (do you know the difference between the a manager and a headcoach in football?).
Where are your facts to back up your own claims. You didn't post any.
According to Moyes, we couldn't even sign Matic from Benfica. His quote just says he didn't want Fellaini to be his first signing. Nothing mentioned about the delaying the bid. Nor that he didn't want him.
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 9 hours, 12 minutes ago
You haven't provided much in the way of evidence either. For example, I quoted Moyes being surprised by the Mata signing. You gave your own opinion on what he meant. Where is the evidence for your interpretation of what he meant?
I linked to papers saying we were interested in signing both Baines and Fellaini, and then another that's a few weeks later that were bids being rejected for the pair (with quotes from Everton in them). The latter shows that the former "speculation" was correct. Yet you dismissed these.
Jose himself complained about not getting signings in and labeled himself a "headcoach" when it happened. You have dismissed this as well (do you know the difference between the a manager and a headcoach in football?).
Where are your facts to back up your own claims. You didn't post any.
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Its you stating opinion as fact. I'm simply pointing out they aren't facts and that all you have provided is newspaper gossip.
Sign in if you want to comment
Has Ed Woodward failed?
Page 2 of 3
posted on 12/6/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
His clueless, smug, pug looking face symbolises everything about him for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This as well
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Pugward
posted on 12/6/19
Evening Diafol.
I think most (probably all bar one) feel that Ed has failed.
On that note, is RDD banned? I thought he would be all over this article.
posted on 12/6/19
comment by babyen ansikt snikmorder (U9094)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
Evening Diafol.
I think most (probably all bar one) feel that Ed has failed.
On that note, is RDD banned? I thought he would be all over this article.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Evening Babyen. I think he's failed as well.
The other Super Ed hasn't made an appearance here but I've not seen that he's banned. He's probably the only one on here that annoys me to be honest!
posted on 13/6/19
Ed has overseen one of the clubs most difficult periods.
He inherited the role from David Gill. A hugely well regarded exec in football.
He has had to deal with the loss of SAF, the greatest football manager ever, whose presence was huge throughout the whole club. Can anyone name a tougher task in football outside of players and management?
So, his first job is to appoint a manager. Now, SAF, was heavily involved in this decision making process and very supportive of the appointment of David Moyes who was considered the best available (Klopp was happy at Dortmund having just reached a champs league final. Jose was going back to Chelsea, Ancelotti was off to Real, Pep had signed for Bayern, Blanc for PSG and Allegri had finished 3rd with AC Milan) So Moyes got
the job because there was nobody better available and SAF backed him.
So, with Moyes appointed, Eds next task was to support Moyes improvement / overhaul of a relatively average squad. (key players being a very young DDG, Valencia, Kagawa, Rooney and RVP) Yes they might have won the title in SAF last season, but that is largely regarded to be down to the genius of SAF and the individual brilliance of RVP.
Moyes wanted Fellaini, but didnt want him to be his first signing because of the Everton link and putting pressure on the player. So, Moyes talked Ed into bidding for Bale, offer exceeding what Real eventually paid, only for the player to prefer a move to Real. Moyes and Ed them turned there attention to Fabregas, with Moyes saying he thought they'd got him right up until the window closed, with Fellaini becoming his only summer signing. Yes we overpaid but the delay in pursuing this was Moyes doing.
Despite Ed delivering Juan Mata, the team struggled and Moyes was rightly put out of his misery.
So approaching Summer 2014 and we need to replace Moyes. Klopp was still happy at Dortmund, Pep was at Bayern, Ancelotti was at Real, Jose was still at Chelsea. The best candidate available was deemed to be LVG.
So, in addition to already agreed deals for Herrera and Shaw, Ed delivered Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Falcao, Valdes,and later on, Martial, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin and Romero. Clearly LVG was backed to the hilt by ed with 10 of his targets delivered.
Despite the backing, LVG's style of football was poor with results not much better, resulting in an FA Cup win in his 2nd and finale season. Given his plans to retire he was eventually sacked, much to the delight of the large majority of United fans.
So, how do we replace LVG? Well, after 3 seasons of poor football and just 1 FA Cup win (Whilst City, Chelsea & Leicester won the league) with Mourinho being available, and other top candidates unavailable, the appointment of Jose made perfect sense at the time.
So Ed goes on to again back his manager, delivering Bailly, Ibra, Mhikitaryan, Pogba, Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez, Fred & Dalot. Another 10 players across 2 transfer windows.
Whilst Jose's style of play wasnt to everyone's taste, he did achieve relative success, winning 1 league cup, a Europa League cup and a 2nd place finish.
Sadly Jose's 3rd season didnt go well with the manager feeling the club hadn't backed him well enough transfer wise.
Now, apart from the fact Ed had delivered 24 players across the previous 5 seasons, at great expense, the suggestion Ed wouldn't make every effort to back his manager is ridiculous and unfounded. Why wouldnt he after backing him with a new contract? No. It is my belief that whilst Ed would have been happy to spend, not every player is attainable, especially given United continue to feel the effects of losing SAF, with several clubs currently being far more desirable options.
It's been said Ed is mistaken in not appointing a DOF or Technical director, with claims that we need a football expert to link the board with the manager. I disagree. The manager and scouts are more than capable of identifying targets and Ed and Judge are clearly able to deliver deals with players who want to join United.
So, is Ed the best CEO in football Probably not. But is he as bad as has been suggested by our fans? No. He is a scapegoat for frustrated fans who know far less about the goings of the club than they believe.
The suggestion he doesnt back managers is ridiculous after 24 signings across 5 seasons.
All clubs make bad signings, bad managerial appointments, miss out on targets. Not many execs however have had to pick up the pieces following the loss of such a succesful double act as SAF and Gill at such a huge club, under such scrutiny.
The suggestion he doesnt know anything about football is naive, disrespectful and unfounded.
He is also far more professional and respectful of the club he representsb compared with his counterparts at Bayern, City, PSG, Barca, Real or Juve, who have all experienced huge scandal over the last decade.
posted on 13/6/19
You made a decent post. I had to check out was actually you.
Ed's appointment to his position isn't his fault. That lies with the owners. He was a novice when given such a huge position at a club. His first priority has been to make money, rather than the footballing side of things and it has shown through his appointments, recruitment and interference in the team.
You could excuse him when he first took up the position. If he was earmarked to take on this position, they should have had him learn from Gill. From news of his first summer window, there were issues due to him and Moyes. Herrera and Shaw were signings try at they failed to complete in that window, which were completed in the next summer window. The pursuit of Fellaini and Baines took over most of the summer. You could excuse Cesc and Bale, the latter had his heart set on Real. Mata himself was an Ed signing.
In his next window, despite getting in LVG, didn't get all the signings that his manager wanted. Di Maria and Falcao were Ed signings (LVG has admitted this himself). One of whom didn'twwant to come and the other just returned from a long layoff so was a huge risk. He got in some signings that were wanted by the coach. Martial was recommended and scouted by Giggs. Who was said at the time was being primed to take over from LVG.
We can agree about LVG's style. It was slow and while we had lots of possession, and did well against top sides in the PL, the bottom sides just sat back and let us have the ball. He had to go.
The hiring of Jose had the fans split. I was against it due to what we knew about him at the time and that has been proven to be the case with his time here.
Ed did back Jose. Jose did complain about not getting in all the players he wanted, even though you could point to a few signings that were Ed rather than Jose (Pogba and Sanchez). Jose's complained that he didn't get the backing Pep did at City. He used the example of Bravo being replaced after a season and investment in 4 defenders at around 50m each. While he has that right to complain, he didn't do well with what he had bought in himself.
Ed also extended his contract midway through his second season, despite knowing Jose has a reputation of getting fired or quiting in his third season. It led to him paying off a huge compensation fee, after Jose threw a strop at not getting his way in transfer last summer. Something that has happened a few times at his previous clubs.
The appointment of Jose was shortsighted by Ed. Remember, LVG was brought in to bring a new style. When he was sacked, all that was ripped up and Jose had to implement his style. And then to extend and not back him was idiotic.
Now, I'm not going to blame him for each signings failure or achievement. He have let go of better players than we replaced or kept. Evans and Blind were let go, yet we kept Jones, Smalling and Rojo. Rafael was replaced by Darmian. These aren't on Ed.
Now, despite all this, if he cannot recognise he isn't the man to be dealing with the footballing side of things then he needs replacing in the role.
I have already mentioned in another thread about what I'd like to see him do, I'll repeat it briefly as I don't want to go over all that again.
If Ed, and is right hand man, only death with what you said, it would be fine.
Ole can deal with managing the players and requests the type of players he wants. We do need a TD/Dof with a committee (made out of scouts and/or explayers as well as the managerhhaving is in put) that can decide and build towards what style of play we want and sign players that suit the team.
If Ole fails and gets sacked and we bring in another manager who has completely different ideas, we will continue to struggle (LVG, Jose and Ole all have very different styles and needs from their players). Unless we get lucky, but we can't rely on that. We need to bring in a strategy.
posted on 13/6/19
He is also far more professional and respectful of the club he representsb compared with his counterparts at Bayern, City, PSG, Barca, Real or Juve, who have all experienced huge scandal over the last decade.
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That's all beside the point on whether he has done well or not on the footballing side of things.
posted on 13/6/19
His first priority has been to make money - How have you arrived at this ? Please don’t say it’s obvious, or if I don’t know I’m an idiot or other such nonsense.
His interference in on the team - Again, where have you got this from?
The pursuit of Fellaini and Baines took over most of the Summer - It really didn’t. United also tried for Bale and Fabregas among others.
Mata was an Ed signing - Again. Where have you got this from. Facts please.
DI Maria and Falcao were Ed signings - Nonsense, but happy to see your reasoning for believing so.
On Falcao, LVG has said he wanted a CF but “When you can’t have the 1st or 2nd choice, you have to be happy with 4th or 5th” and “I said we should take him on loan”. So, Falcao was on the list and LVG was behind the decision to loan.
Same with Di Maria, with LVG being quoted as saying that whilst ADM wasn’t his first pick, he was happy with the signing given the players talent.
The hiring of Jose had the fans split and was a short sighted appointment- I agree on the fans being split, I disagree it was short sighted. It wasn’t inevitable Jose would have a meltdown. And who was a better candidate at the time? For all his faults, Jose was free, wanted the job, and had a great record of winning major titles, something United desperately needed after 3 relatively poor seasons post SAF.
Pogba and Sanchez were more Ed signings than Jose - Again, id love to know where you have got this from.
At the time of his signing Jose described Pogba as one of the worlds best players and said he’d be a key player over the coming decade in the side he wanted to build. Hardly sounds upset does he?
On Sanchez, Jose had asked for a player with some magic, and was reported to have told Sanchez he could be Uniteds talisman. He was one of the league best players at this time. Amid the speculation prior to the deal being confirmed, Jose sounded excited at the potential signing.
Now, you say Ed and Judge just being involved in negotiating fees, wages and signing cheques is fine. That is there only role. The idea they decide who to sign is ridiculous. Of the managers list of targets, They get who wants to come and who’s demands aren’t outside of what the club want to pay.
You say you want a committee made up of the manager, scouts and ex players / a TD/DOF that can decide what style of play we want and sign the players that suit, it that is how we already operate apart from the ex player / DOF, whose involve,ent I don’t think is required. If you can’t trust the manager to identify layers that suit his style then he shouldn’t have the job. If scouts can’t identify the type of players the manager wants, they shouldn’t be in the job.
Again, it’s no good apppointing a DOF to decide right, I want us to play this way, only to then have to find a coach who is prepared to play this way.
We don’t need a DOF to have all age groups playing the same way. A small percentage of the clubs youngsters make it into the senior squad, and those that are deemed good enough train with the squad and therefore become familiar with the set up that way.
Another issue with a DOF is that you are then limiting yourself to a small pot of managers / coaches to pick from who are capable of such a demanding job, who will have their style or play and signings decided for them. You also have a very small number of suitable candidates for the DOF job should the current one move on.
posted on 13/6/19
Not out of June yet and Real have 4 players bought already
We've bought promising kid from Swansea
Good work Ed
posted on 13/6/19
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 9 minutes ago
Not out of June yet and Real have 4 players bought already
We've bought promising kid from Swansea
Good work Ed
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😢
posted on 13/6/19
Ed has overseen one of the clubs most difficult periods.
He inherited the role from David Gill. A hugely well regarded exec in football.
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posted on 14/6/19
saw your response to my post.
His first priority is to make money as that's what he was primarily hired to do. And he still does this. What is his first priority in your opinion?
Interference in team - Jose wanted to sell Martial. Was told he can't. (Whether I agree with the decision or not, that's interference). Jose wanted Perisic. Was told he was too old. Jose wanted another CB. Was denied signing one. All these point to interference with the team and on signings. These counter your opinion of the manager telling him what he wants and he goes out and gets him.
Even LVG, who said he was happy with Di Maria, he wasn't his choice of player. He said he wanted a creative player. Di Maria was signed. He was happy as he thought he was a creative player. He then went on to say he tried him in different positions to try and fit him into the side. On Falcao, He never said Falcao was his 4th or 5th choice. Just that when you can't have the 1st or 2md choice you move into the next and be happy with what you get. He doesn't specify whose it is. This could be due to the language barrier. What he does say was that it was his decision to make it a loan signing.
Fellaini and Baines were linked quite early on in the transfer window with news of bids made for both and them being turned down. Then things went quiet before Fellaini was signed after all another players we were linked with didn't come through.
I've already covered who other than Jose topic in the other thread.
Both Pogba and Sanchez were deemed either close to world class or world class when we signed them. No manager would be unhappy getting them. SAF himself did such signings. Veron, RVP are two that come mind. Sanchez was thought all but gone to City. It was considered a real coup at the time and a big thing was and still is made about his contract. Pogba had a high social media following before coming to United and have it increased. The Pogba deal wasn't just about what he brought to the team on the field. Jose isn't going to say that he doesn't want him nor will a manager be displeased about such a signing.
A manager being pleased with a player they regard as world class signing for them isn't the same as it being their choice.
"Now, you say Ed and Judge just being involved in negotiating fees, wages and signing cheques is fine. That is there only role. The idea they decide who to sign is ridiculous. Of the managers list of targets, They get who wants to come and who’s demands aren’t outside of what the club want to pay." - Jose was vetoed on getting in players deemed too old and on another CB. After that, Jose didn't refer to himself as Manager but headcoach.
On the points you made about the Dof, I have countered those exact same points several times now across different threads. You haven't responded to those. For instance, your past sentence about how to replace the Dof if the one we have leave. If you had read the previous replies, you'd see that said thay having a committee would help negate a fall out of that happening and would also give us the option to hire from within.
posted on 14/6/19
Apart from making money I can't think of anything Ed has managed to do in the last six years that has had a benefit to the football side of things.
He has been a massive failure.
And I say this as one of the few posters who gave him some leeway early on.
posted on 14/6/19
Also, on Mata, Moyes seemed to say he was surprised about several things with that transfer. Surprised he signed. Surprised Chelsea sold him. Surprised it happened in January.
posted on 14/6/19
CIC -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-woodward-call-highlights-16284370.amp
Interference in the team would be to demand a player is picked. Not saying that we wont sell a player.
Do you have quotes of Jose saying he wanted Perisic or evidence that Ed said he was too old?
CB - No club gets everyone they want. Jose and all of our managers post SAF have been backed hugely and at great cost though.
ADM - LVG didnt say he didnt want him and he was happy with his signing. LVG also referred to a list of players he wanted, so there was a list and Ed and Judge get who they can. No clubs gets everyone they want.
Falcao - so the facts are that LVG hasnt said he never wanted Falcao. Just that he was on a list of targets.
Fellaini and Baines - show me evidence of actual bids, being made for Fellaini and Baines, not speculation and newspaper gossip.
Pogba and Sanchez being Ed's decisions forced on the manager. So despite the manager being very happy with their signing and their being no EVIDENCE they were forced on him by Ed, you insist this was the case?
"Jose was vetoed on getting in players deemed too old and on another CB" And the quotes or.evidenxe are where ?
Hiring a DOF just means another opinion. They can come and go as often as a manger does. With this set up up you are limiting yourselves to a very small number of people available, capable of the job, happy to work with each other, that want to play the system the club wants and with the current players. If you get it right, it's great. Get it wrong and it's just a other person to blame.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 6 hours, 3 minutes ago
Also, on Mata, Moyes seemed to say he was surprised about several things with that transfer. Surprised he signed. Surprised Chelsea sold him. Surprised it happened in January.
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Because he disnt think we could get him, not that he didnt know we were trying.
posted on 14/6/19
Because he disnt think we could get him, not that he didnt know we were trying.
...
Do you have factual evidence of that RDD?
posted on 14/6/19
Interference in the team would be to demand a player is picked. Not saying that we wont sell a player.
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Then we disagree on what that means and no point discussing it further.
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Do you have quotes of Jose saying he wanted Perisic or evidence that Ed said he was too old?
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Other than press speculation, we don't have any solid evidence of most of these. Take your rebuttal to my point on Moyes take in signing Mata. There is no solid evidence of your point.
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CB - No club gets everyone they want. Jose and all of our managers post SAF have been backed hugely and at great cost though.
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Jose made a big thing about not getting one in. Then referred to himself as Head coach rather than Manager. Now, Ed has backed him. He also decided when not to. Once that happened, he should have e
sacked him.
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ADM - LVG didnt say he didnt want him and he was happy with his signing. LVG also referred to a list of players he wanted, so there was a list and Ed and Judge get who they can. No clubs gets everyone they want.
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Di Maria wasn't his signing, Van Gaal has said that. We can agree there was a list. Who decided who are 1st or 5th choice is not clear by what Van Gaal said.
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Falcao - so the facts are that LVG hasnt said he never wanted Falcao. Just that he was on a list of targets.
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Did he clearly say that? It seems a bit ambiguous. Could be due to English not being good native language.
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Fellaini and Baines - show me evidence of actual bids, being made for Fellaini and Baines, not speculation and newspaper gossip.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2377656/Roberto-Martinez-confirms-Man-United-bids-Leighton-Baines-Marouane-Fellaini.html
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/07/manchester-united-marouane-fellaini-leighton-baines
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/23753129
From the press reporting our interest to bids being made. We dithered in trying to sign both of them and ended up getting one for about what we wanted for both.
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Pogba and Sanchez being Ed's decisions forced on the manager. So despite the manager being very happy with their signing and their being no EVIDENCE they were forced on him by Ed, you insist this was the case?
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Being happy getting a player is not the same as him being your choice. Sanchez was City bound. Leaks suggest he was brought in due to his profile and to appease Jose as his choice of Perisic was rejected. I can't provide evidence as these are from the media. Can you provide evidence that these were both chosen by Jose himself?
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Jose was vetoed on getting in players deemed too old and on another CB" And the quotes or.evidenxe are where ?
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Again, press has reported it. While we can't believe everything, we can't dismiss them. Especially when more than one outlet reports them over a period of time.
https://www.football365.com/news/the-reasons-why-man-utd-vetoed-mourinhos-transfer-wishlist
http://hilltopmonitor.com/2018/08/why-manchester-united-vetoed-jose-mourinhos-short-term-fixes/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8131311/manchester-united-vetoed-jose-mourinho-toby-alderweireld/
====
Hiring a DOF just means another opinion. They can come and go as often as a manger does. With this set up up you are limiting yourselves to a very small number of people available, capable of the job, happy to work with each other, that want to play the system the club wants and with the current players. If you get it right, it's great. Get it wrong and it's just a other person to blame.
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As I've said, I've countered those points.
We already have those above the manager preventing what players he wants, but why are people who know little about the sport making decisions?
We also have seen that this set up works across Europe such as Ajax, Sevilla, Dortmund, Roma, etc. and City and Liverpool have a team that deal with it rather than just an individual.
We also seen teams in other approaches that also work, such as Bayern and Lyon, who have people who have football know how to deal with these (ex players, those who worked in other background roles). We have two guys who don't and have been called out on by our former Manager(s).
====
The hiring of Jose had the fans split and was a short sighted appointment- I agree on the fans being split, I disagree it was short sighted. It wasn’t inevitable Jose would have a meltdown. And who was a better candidate at the time? For all his faults, Jose was free, wanted the job, and had a great record of winning major titles, something United desperately needed after 3 relatively poor seasons post SAF.
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Also, I forgot to address the point about Jose. You said we didn't know he would do what he did. Something quite funny as this was predicted to happen. Had happened a few times before. He was also known as a short term manager and his short termism wasn't backed, that led to his meltdown. Something that happened at his previous job. Its odd to hire someone known for his traits and then don't break him in what he does.
posted on 15/6/19
So basically you are quoting media speculation as fact.
I think iv clearly won that one.
posted on 15/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/6/19
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Super Ed (U22147)
posted 31 minutes ago
So basically you are quoting media speculation as fact.
I think iv clearly won that one.
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I don't think I've ever seen you win anything on here RDD
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You have now treacle
posted on 15/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/6/19
Nope what? I asked the guy for facts in support of his claims. He provided newspaper speculation.
posted on 15/6/19
You haven't provided much in the way of evidence either. For example, I quoted Moyes being surprised by the Mata signing. You gave your own opinion on what he meant. Where is the evidence for your interpretation of what he meant?
I linked to papers saying we were interested in signing both Baines and Fellaini, and then another that's a few weeks later that were bids being rejected for the pair (with quotes from Everton in them). The latter shows that the former "speculation" was correct. Yet you dismissed these.
Jose himself complained about not getting signings in and labeled himself a "headcoach" when it happened. You have dismissed this as well (do you know the difference between the a manager and a headcoach in football?).
Where are your facts to back up your own claims. You didn't post any.
posted on 15/6/19
According to Moyes, we couldn't even sign Matic from Benfica. His quote just says he didn't want Fellaini to be his first signing. Nothing mentioned about the delaying the bid. Nor that he didn't want him.
posted on 15/6/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 9 hours, 12 minutes ago
You haven't provided much in the way of evidence either. For example, I quoted Moyes being surprised by the Mata signing. You gave your own opinion on what he meant. Where is the evidence for your interpretation of what he meant?
I linked to papers saying we were interested in signing both Baines and Fellaini, and then another that's a few weeks later that were bids being rejected for the pair (with quotes from Everton in them). The latter shows that the former "speculation" was correct. Yet you dismissed these.
Jose himself complained about not getting signings in and labeled himself a "headcoach" when it happened. You have dismissed this as well (do you know the difference between the a manager and a headcoach in football?).
Where are your facts to back up your own claims. You didn't post any.
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Its you stating opinion as fact. I'm simply pointing out they aren't facts and that all you have provided is newspaper gossip.
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