I’ve been saying this for ages. It’s strange seeing the shift in perception of defenders on these shores because playing out from the back has become a big part of the game. Players that are comfortable on the ball but can’t defend were always criticised in this country, especially in comparison to players that could defend but weren’t comfortable on the ball, now it’s gone completely the opposite way.
A perfect illustration of this are the views of Smalling and Maguire. Smalling is a much better defender than Maguire. Because he’s awkward on the ball and the latter isn’t, Maguire is viewed as a better defender.
"It’s strange seeing the shift in perception of defenders on these shores because playing out from the back has become a big part of the game. "
If it's become a big part of the game, why is it strange?
Let's remember we signed Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo believing they were players comfortable on the ball, and in Europe they tend to be. They all struggle with the pressure of the PL though.
It’s strange because the perception has gone from one extreme to the other. Just because it’s a valuable attribute to have in a cb doesn’t mean that ability to defend should be so readily disregarded.
Rojo has never been comfortable on the ball... in fact he is worse than smelling which is bad considering he has often played at full back where distribution is even more important
To be fair though, always doing the opposite of whatever Duncan Castles suggests tends to be a recipe for success...
a cb needs to have good defensive abilities(captain obvious) yes but for most part how good they are is dependent on the fullbacks they play with and the protection they receive in front, go throughout history and every great cb you name you could also name a brilliant fb or two playing alongside him or a great dm in front
Is he not City bound anyway?
Why do a lot of people pay attention to this egg's comments? He's nothing but a Mendes lacky, he's got no credibility and has a record as long as your arm for terrible transfer reliability.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"It’s strange seeing the shift in perception of defenders on these shores because playing out from the back has become a big part of the game. "
If it's become a big part of the game, why is it strange?
Let's remember we signed Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo believing they were players comfortable on the ball, and in Europe they tend to be. They all struggle with the pressure of the PL though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That can't be true about Rojo. I remember watching him at left back for Argentina before we signed him thinking he had the least composure on the pitch
Doesn’t change the fact he’s right about Maguire. Or his mate from overseas, that told him Maguire can’t defend, is.
He’ll go to city and look great I reckon next to Laporte, we’ll be wummed for being rejected by another player.
Or
He’ll come to us and look terrible with the rest of our motley crew of defenders, we’ll be wummed for being ripped off.
You need to have a balance act of your defence. If a defender is good at playing out from the back and reads the game well the other one needs to be a good defender with pace so you can play a high line and he can cover the slower defender.
If you have two defenders who can not play out from the back then it is easy for the other team to press your defenders.
A Maguire and Smalling could work if you have also a Fernandinho type midfielder to drop between the two cb's to make it three vs one, two strikers or is comfortable to receive the ball in tight situations.
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 seconds ago
He’ll go to city and look great I reckon next to Laporte, we’ll be wummed for being rejected by another player.
Or
He’ll come to us and look terrible with the rest of our motley crew of defenders, we’ll be wummed for being ripped off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never believed the City links at all, I don't think he's a Pep player either.
Wouldn't it make more sense to simply buy a better defender than Maguire, it can't be that hard, he isn't that good.
The supposed desire to want Maguire is odd because a year ago Jose wanted him and Ed didn't, now he's seemingly changed his mind.
Maguire could be easily a succes in a Pep team as they dominate the ball and so less pressure on the defenders.
The defensive problem rises when there is pressure on the defence and players need to defend and have to take responsibiliy.
Maguire could be easily a succes in a Pep team as they dominate the ball and so less pressure on the defenders.
The defensive problem rises when there is pressure on the defence and players need to defend and have to take responsibiliy.
-----------
exactly that, he wouldn't have been any help in say the cl game against spurs last season, he's basically a fatter john stones
I’d love to see Maguire at City. It’d be hilarious.
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I’d love to see Maguire at City. It’d be hilarious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Benny Hill comes to mind
Depends what the defensive problem is that’s trying to be solved. Ours is set pieces.
But then it massively weakens you defensively from open play. And even then, I’ve read quite a few Leicester fans claim his defensive ability in the air is overstated, he’s better at attacking the ball rather than defending it.
Yeah I don’t agree with them
I wouldn’t choose him still though, although I don’t think if we did sign him, he’d be used in every game anyway.
Well hopefully you do. For my own entertainment and sanity.
well the fee is absurd for a player of his calibre, hope you sign him
I rate him reasonably highly. He's not a great but he's good to very good. Super in the air, at both emds of the pitch imo. Good with the ball, and seems to read the game well I think. Yes he's slow, but few are perfect, it's getting the right partnership that will be key. Eg Bruce and Pally, Rio and Vidic.
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 seconds ago
He’ll go to city and look great I reckon next to Laporte, we’ll be wummed for being rejected by another player.
Or
He’ll come to us and look terrible with the rest of our motley crew of defenders, we’ll be wummed for being ripped off.
---------------------------------------------------
That's what probably will happen if he joins either side.
While I think it's important we get in a CB, I think other positions are in much more need, and if we bring in a cb we need to get one who will bring our defence up a few notches.
Maguire isn't that.
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Duncan Castles on Maguire
Page 1 of 3
posted on 21/6/19
I’ve been saying this for ages. It’s strange seeing the shift in perception of defenders on these shores because playing out from the back has become a big part of the game. Players that are comfortable on the ball but can’t defend were always criticised in this country, especially in comparison to players that could defend but weren’t comfortable on the ball, now it’s gone completely the opposite way.
A perfect illustration of this are the views of Smalling and Maguire. Smalling is a much better defender than Maguire. Because he’s awkward on the ball and the latter isn’t, Maguire is viewed as a better defender.
posted on 21/6/19
"It’s strange seeing the shift in perception of defenders on these shores because playing out from the back has become a big part of the game. "
If it's become a big part of the game, why is it strange?
Let's remember we signed Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo believing they were players comfortable on the ball, and in Europe they tend to be. They all struggle with the pressure of the PL though.
posted on 21/6/19
It’s strange because the perception has gone from one extreme to the other. Just because it’s a valuable attribute to have in a cb doesn’t mean that ability to defend should be so readily disregarded.
posted on 21/6/19
Rojo has never been comfortable on the ball... in fact he is worse than smelling which is bad considering he has often played at full back where distribution is even more important
posted on 21/6/19
To be fair though, always doing the opposite of whatever Duncan Castles suggests tends to be a recipe for success...
posted on 21/6/19
a cb needs to have good defensive abilities(captain obvious) yes but for most part how good they are is dependent on the fullbacks they play with and the protection they receive in front, go throughout history and every great cb you name you could also name a brilliant fb or two playing alongside him or a great dm in front
posted on 21/6/19
Is he not City bound anyway?
posted on 21/6/19
Why do a lot of people pay attention to this egg's comments? He's nothing but a Mendes lacky, he's got no credibility and has a record as long as your arm for terrible transfer reliability.
posted on 21/6/19
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"It’s strange seeing the shift in perception of defenders on these shores because playing out from the back has become a big part of the game. "
If it's become a big part of the game, why is it strange?
Let's remember we signed Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo believing they were players comfortable on the ball, and in Europe they tend to be. They all struggle with the pressure of the PL though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That can't be true about Rojo. I remember watching him at left back for Argentina before we signed him thinking he had the least composure on the pitch
posted on 21/6/19
Doesn’t change the fact he’s right about Maguire. Or his mate from overseas, that told him Maguire can’t defend, is.
posted on 21/6/19
He’ll go to city and look great I reckon next to Laporte, we’ll be wummed for being rejected by another player.
Or
He’ll come to us and look terrible with the rest of our motley crew of defenders, we’ll be wummed for being ripped off.
posted on 21/6/19
You need to have a balance act of your defence. If a defender is good at playing out from the back and reads the game well the other one needs to be a good defender with pace so you can play a high line and he can cover the slower defender.
If you have two defenders who can not play out from the back then it is easy for the other team to press your defenders.
A Maguire and Smalling could work if you have also a Fernandinho type midfielder to drop between the two cb's to make it three vs one, two strikers or is comfortable to receive the ball in tight situations.
posted on 21/6/19
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 seconds ago
He’ll go to city and look great I reckon next to Laporte, we’ll be wummed for being rejected by another player.
Or
He’ll come to us and look terrible with the rest of our motley crew of defenders, we’ll be wummed for being ripped off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never believed the City links at all, I don't think he's a Pep player either.
posted on 21/6/19
Wouldn't it make more sense to simply buy a better defender than Maguire, it can't be that hard, he isn't that good.
The supposed desire to want Maguire is odd because a year ago Jose wanted him and Ed didn't, now he's seemingly changed his mind.
posted on 21/6/19
Maguire could be easily a succes in a Pep team as they dominate the ball and so less pressure on the defenders.
The defensive problem rises when there is pressure on the defence and players need to defend and have to take responsibiliy.
posted on 21/6/19
Maguire could be easily a succes in a Pep team as they dominate the ball and so less pressure on the defenders.
The defensive problem rises when there is pressure on the defence and players need to defend and have to take responsibiliy.
-----------
exactly that, he wouldn't have been any help in say the cl game against spurs last season, he's basically a fatter john stones
posted on 21/6/19
I’d love to see Maguire at City. It’d be hilarious.
posted on 21/6/19
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
I’d love to see Maguire at City. It’d be hilarious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Benny Hill comes to mind
posted on 21/6/19
Depends what the defensive problem is that’s trying to be solved. Ours is set pieces.
posted on 21/6/19
But then it massively weakens you defensively from open play. And even then, I’ve read quite a few Leicester fans claim his defensive ability in the air is overstated, he’s better at attacking the ball rather than defending it.
posted on 21/6/19
Yeah I don’t agree with them
I wouldn’t choose him still though, although I don’t think if we did sign him, he’d be used in every game anyway.
posted on 21/6/19
Well hopefully you do. For my own entertainment and sanity.
posted on 21/6/19
well the fee is absurd for a player of his calibre, hope you sign him
posted on 21/6/19
I rate him reasonably highly. He's not a great but he's good to very good. Super in the air, at both emds of the pitch imo. Good with the ball, and seems to read the game well I think. Yes he's slow, but few are perfect, it's getting the right partnership that will be key. Eg Bruce and Pally, Rio and Vidic.
posted on 21/6/19
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 seconds ago
He’ll go to city and look great I reckon next to Laporte, we’ll be wummed for being rejected by another player.
Or
He’ll come to us and look terrible with the rest of our motley crew of defenders, we’ll be wummed for being ripped off.
---------------------------------------------------
That's what probably will happen if he joins either side.
While I think it's important we get in a CB, I think other positions are in much more need, and if we bring in a cb we need to get one who will bring our defence up a few notches.
Maguire isn't that.
Page 1 of 3