The main problem is it will eventually lead to players too paranoid to celebrate if the goal comes from a run in behind of some sort.
Part of the beauty of football is the off the cuff emotion a goal brings.
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 26 seconds ago
The main problem is it will eventually lead to players too paranoid to celebrate if the goal comes from a run in behind of some sort.
Part of the beauty of football is the off the cuff emotion a goal brings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely - 100% agree.
Agree OP. VAR should make offside and handball easier to defind and things like clear daylight should be used.
It’s a shambles.
The people running the game don’t know enough about the laws imo - certainly the spirit of them, and they have absolutely no idea about playing the game. Handball being a prime example.
Add to that the delays it causes and the complete contractions between the guidance documents and how it has been implemented, it’s a total mess.
They’re trying to remove ‘errors’ from the game but it’s something that can’t be done because too much of it is subjective.
VAR will become the norm and future generations will be fine with it because they don’t know any better.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
It’s a shambles.
The people running the game don’t know enough about the laws imo - certainly the spirit of them, and they have absolutely no idea about playing the game. Handball being a prime example.
Add to that the delays it causes and the complete contractions between the guidance documents and how it has been implemented, it’s a total mess.
They’re trying to remove ‘errors’ from the game but it’s something that can’t be done because too much of it is subjective.
VAR will become the norm and future generations will be fine with it because they don’t know any better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sad but true!
Clear daylight wasn’t ever a law, and how does it help offside decisions anyway? You’ve still got to make the judgement, no different to the current laws. Which are easier to judge given it’s based any part of the body you can score with constituting offside.
What they should do is change it to where a player’s feet are, in my opinion, but then there’s still issues judging it accurately.
VAR does a good job if implemented correctly. If it isn’t it’s a fault of the officials, which is the same with officials getting things wrong with out it - VAR just makes errors less likely.
I just texted my mate about VAR.
VAR is helping clubs/nations to "cheat" inadvertently by virtue of bunch of suspects sitting behind monitors who are making up "debatable" points and making decisions on them?
The ref is being dumbed down by having VAR and VAR is only as good as the ref and those who are behind VAR.
I cam expecting to see 100 penalties next season everytime a ball hits a defender's arms and expect them to be given ALL.
Good point raised here, OP
good points op. i could easily live without it.
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
Clear daylight wasn’t ever a law, and how does it help offside decisions anyway? You’ve still got to make the judgement, no different to the current laws. Which are easier to judge given it’s based any part of the body you can score with constituting offside.
What they should do is change it to where a player’s feet are, in my opinion, but then there’s still issues judging it accurately.
VAR does a good job if implemented correctly. If it isn’t it’s a fault of the officials, which is the same with officials getting things wrong with out it - VAR just makes errors less likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree for the most part around VAR/officials but there is quite clearly an impact on the rules themselves - were seeing it quite clearly. Especially handball and offside.
Looked into the ‘clear daylight’ thing - you’re right it wasn’t a rule but was an instruction given to linesmen in the late 2000s. It would help because it would go back to the true reason the law was there in the first place. If any part of the attacker is level with the defender - onside - even if his knee is slightly further forward that the defenders toe.
If not, as I said in the OP. We are in serious danger of the spontaneous reaction to goals being lost and arguably nothing is worth that.
It’s being used in the opposite manner to which it was brought in for IMO, I thought the idea was to aid the officials and help eradicate OBVIOUS mistakes?
Like the OP says it’s being used to judge whether an attacker is 0.5 cm’s offside, or if a goalkeeper’s big toe has moved off the goal-line.
It’s pedantry, not obvious.
We’re going to have so many goals ruled out by centimetres (see Ligand in the Nations League). Is that really what the rule is for?
__________
Doesnt bother me that, the offside trap and timing runs in behind etc are two of the biggest skills in the game, if you are offside you are offside the defence has done well or got lucky or the attacker has facked it up i have no issue with it being cms, same as goal like technology its its over its over
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
I don't understand the argument on offside. A bit like a goal, it's either goal or no goal regardless of whether the ball stays on the line by 0.001 inch (likewise with offside, it's either offside or onside). Surely no debate there????
I agree VAR hasn't been used properly at this world cup. Last summer's world cup was actually good.
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is unintentional handball worthy of (pretty much) a free goal to the opposition though? Does punishment fit the crime?
Your comments about offside are spot on. This used to annoy me even before VAR was introduced but it's 10 times worse now.
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is unintentional handball worthy of (pretty much) a free goal to the opposition though? Does punishment fit the crime?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed actually made a good point. Maybe it is the law that needs changing? There's always been confusion on handballs. Refs got it wrong some many times prior VAR.
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don't understand the argument on offside. A bit like a goal, it's either goal or no goal regardless of whether the ball stays on the line by 0.001 inch (likewise with offside, it's either offside or onside). Surely no debate there????
I agree VAR hasn't been used properly at this world cup. Last summer's world cup was actually good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but borderline offside aren’t what the law was brought in for. It was to stop goal hanging. An inch here or there makes no difference and when it was done by the human eye it would be described as a ‘tight call’ or whatever and could go either way - that’s the way the law should be interpreted for me. VAR removes that.
I would be in favour of some kind of challenge system for managers to make sure massive mistakes were overturned but tight decisions stayed on the field - a bit like ‘umpires call’ for LBWs in cricket.
Barry, probably not but that’s an issue with the law being changed not VAR, that’s my point.
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is unintentional handball worthy of (pretty much) a free goal to the opposition though? Does punishment fit the crime?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed actually made a good point. Maybe it is the law that needs changing? There's always been confusion on handballs. Refs got it wrong some many times prior VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. The problem with the handball is that the law has been tinkered with so much, the essence of the law has been forgotten.
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but borderline offside aren’t what the law was brought in for. It was to stop goal hanging. An inch here or there makes no difference and when it was done by the human eye it would be described as a ‘tight call’ or whatever and could go either way - that’s the way the law should be interpreted for me. VAR removes that.
———
But the law isn’t interpreted like that, regardless of bar, so it’s not removing anything in that context - what it’s is the regularity with which errors are made in judging offsides.
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 21 seconds ago
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but borderline offside aren’t what the law was brought in for. It was to stop goal hanging. An inch here or there makes no difference and when it was done by the human eye it would be described as a ‘tight call’ or whatever and could go either way - that’s the way the law should be interpreted for me. VAR removes that.
———
But the law isn’t interpreted like that, regardless of bar, so it’s not removing anything in that context - what it’s is the regularity with which errors are made in judging offsides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly - but removing the human element has impacted on the implementation of the rule. You get 100% accuracy (or should do) but you risk losing the spontaneous reaction to a goal. Is it worth it?
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 24 minutes ago
I don't understand the argument on offside. A bit like a goal, it's either goal or no goal regardless of whether the ball stays on the line by 0.001 inch (likewise with offside, it's either offside or onside). Surely no debate there????
I agree VAR hasn't been used properly at this world cup. Last summer's world cup was actually good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I worry that selective frame choice can make an offside sit on way or another.
But you aren’t removing the human element because they are still judging the offside calls. So you won’t get 100% accuracy. You don’t risk losing the spontaneous reaction of scoring a goal either, you’ll still have that, though reviews do make it that teams have to wait in thr instances that a goal is reviewed - but it’s a small percentage of all goals scored, so for the correct decisions, or increased chance, I can live with that.
Sign in if you want to comment
We need to talk about VAR...
Page 1 of 3
posted on 23/6/19
The main problem is it will eventually lead to players too paranoid to celebrate if the goal comes from a run in behind of some sort.
Part of the beauty of football is the off the cuff emotion a goal brings.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 26 seconds ago
The main problem is it will eventually lead to players too paranoid to celebrate if the goal comes from a run in behind of some sort.
Part of the beauty of football is the off the cuff emotion a goal brings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely - 100% agree.
posted on 23/6/19
Agree OP. VAR should make offside and handball easier to defind and things like clear daylight should be used.
posted on 23/6/19
*define
posted on 23/6/19
It’s a shambles.
The people running the game don’t know enough about the laws imo - certainly the spirit of them, and they have absolutely no idea about playing the game. Handball being a prime example.
Add to that the delays it causes and the complete contractions between the guidance documents and how it has been implemented, it’s a total mess.
They’re trying to remove ‘errors’ from the game but it’s something that can’t be done because too much of it is subjective.
VAR will become the norm and future generations will be fine with it because they don’t know any better.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
It’s a shambles.
The people running the game don’t know enough about the laws imo - certainly the spirit of them, and they have absolutely no idea about playing the game. Handball being a prime example.
Add to that the delays it causes and the complete contractions between the guidance documents and how it has been implemented, it’s a total mess.
They’re trying to remove ‘errors’ from the game but it’s something that can’t be done because too much of it is subjective.
VAR will become the norm and future generations will be fine with it because they don’t know any better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sad but true!
posted on 23/6/19
Clear daylight wasn’t ever a law, and how does it help offside decisions anyway? You’ve still got to make the judgement, no different to the current laws. Which are easier to judge given it’s based any part of the body you can score with constituting offside.
What they should do is change it to where a player’s feet are, in my opinion, but then there’s still issues judging it accurately.
VAR does a good job if implemented correctly. If it isn’t it’s a fault of the officials, which is the same with officials getting things wrong with out it - VAR just makes errors less likely.
posted on 23/6/19
I just texted my mate about VAR.
VAR is helping clubs/nations to "cheat" inadvertently by virtue of bunch of suspects sitting behind monitors who are making up "debatable" points and making decisions on them?
The ref is being dumbed down by having VAR and VAR is only as good as the ref and those who are behind VAR.
I cam expecting to see 100 penalties next season everytime a ball hits a defender's arms and expect them to be given ALL.
posted on 23/6/19
Good point raised here, OP
posted on 23/6/19
good points op. i could easily live without it.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
Clear daylight wasn’t ever a law, and how does it help offside decisions anyway? You’ve still got to make the judgement, no different to the current laws. Which are easier to judge given it’s based any part of the body you can score with constituting offside.
What they should do is change it to where a player’s feet are, in my opinion, but then there’s still issues judging it accurately.
VAR does a good job if implemented correctly. If it isn’t it’s a fault of the officials, which is the same with officials getting things wrong with out it - VAR just makes errors less likely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree for the most part around VAR/officials but there is quite clearly an impact on the rules themselves - were seeing it quite clearly. Especially handball and offside.
Looked into the ‘clear daylight’ thing - you’re right it wasn’t a rule but was an instruction given to linesmen in the late 2000s. It would help because it would go back to the true reason the law was there in the first place. If any part of the attacker is level with the defender - onside - even if his knee is slightly further forward that the defenders toe.
If not, as I said in the OP. We are in serious danger of the spontaneous reaction to goals being lost and arguably nothing is worth that.
posted on 23/6/19
It’s being used in the opposite manner to which it was brought in for IMO, I thought the idea was to aid the officials and help eradicate OBVIOUS mistakes?
Like the OP says it’s being used to judge whether an attacker is 0.5 cm’s offside, or if a goalkeeper’s big toe has moved off the goal-line.
It’s pedantry, not obvious.
posted on 23/6/19
We’re going to have so many goals ruled out by centimetres (see Ligand in the Nations League). Is that really what the rule is for?
__________
Doesnt bother me that, the offside trap and timing runs in behind etc are two of the biggest skills in the game, if you are offside you are offside the defence has done well or got lucky or the attacker has facked it up i have no issue with it being cms, same as goal like technology its its over its over
posted on 23/6/19
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
posted on 23/6/19
I don't understand the argument on offside. A bit like a goal, it's either goal or no goal regardless of whether the ball stays on the line by 0.001 inch (likewise with offside, it's either offside or onside). Surely no debate there????
I agree VAR hasn't been used properly at this world cup. Last summer's world cup was actually good.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is unintentional handball worthy of (pretty much) a free goal to the opposition though? Does punishment fit the crime?
posted on 23/6/19
Your comments about offside are spot on. This used to annoy me even before VAR was introduced but it's 10 times worse now.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is unintentional handball worthy of (pretty much) a free goal to the opposition though? Does punishment fit the crime?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed actually made a good point. Maybe it is the law that needs changing? There's always been confusion on handballs. Refs got it wrong some many times prior VAR.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don't understand the argument on offside. A bit like a goal, it's either goal or no goal regardless of whether the ball stays on the line by 0.001 inch (likewise with offside, it's either offside or onside). Surely no debate there????
I agree VAR hasn't been used properly at this world cup. Last summer's world cup was actually good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but borderline offside aren’t what the law was brought in for. It was to stop goal hanging. An inch here or there makes no difference and when it was done by the human eye it would be described as a ‘tight call’ or whatever and could go either way - that’s the way the law should be interpreted for me. VAR removes that.
I would be in favour of some kind of challenge system for managers to make sure massive mistakes were overturned but tight decisions stayed on the field - a bit like ‘umpires call’ for LBWs in cricket.
posted on 23/6/19
Barry, probably not but that’s an issue with the law being changed not VAR, that’s my point.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
But var isn’t impacting the rules, they are still the same.
The handball rule has been years in the making due to the problem of ascertaining intent, by taking intent out of the equation it makes the job easier for the officials- it’s nothing to do with var.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is unintentional handball worthy of (pretty much) a free goal to the opposition though? Does punishment fit the crime?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed actually made a good point. Maybe it is the law that needs changing? There's always been confusion on handballs. Refs got it wrong some many times prior VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. The problem with the handball is that the law has been tinkered with so much, the essence of the law has been forgotten.
posted on 23/6/19
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but borderline offside aren’t what the law was brought in for. It was to stop goal hanging. An inch here or there makes no difference and when it was done by the human eye it would be described as a ‘tight call’ or whatever and could go either way - that’s the way the law should be interpreted for me. VAR removes that.
———
But the law isn’t interpreted like that, regardless of bar, so it’s not removing anything in that context - what it’s is the regularity with which errors are made in judging offsides.
posted on 23/6/19
comment by Ed The King Woodward (U10026)
posted 21 seconds ago
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but borderline offside aren’t what the law was brought in for. It was to stop goal hanging. An inch here or there makes no difference and when it was done by the human eye it would be described as a ‘tight call’ or whatever and could go either way - that’s the way the law should be interpreted for me. VAR removes that.
———
But the law isn’t interpreted like that, regardless of bar, so it’s not removing anything in that context - what it’s is the regularity with which errors are made in judging offsides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly - but removing the human element has impacted on the implementation of the rule. You get 100% accuracy (or should do) but you risk losing the spontaneous reaction to a goal. Is it worth it?
posted on 23/6/19
comment by {honestlivpool~five~times} 👽 🐎 #worldpeace (U1661)
posted 24 minutes ago
I don't understand the argument on offside. A bit like a goal, it's either goal or no goal regardless of whether the ball stays on the line by 0.001 inch (likewise with offside, it's either offside or onside). Surely no debate there????
I agree VAR hasn't been used properly at this world cup. Last summer's world cup was actually good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I worry that selective frame choice can make an offside sit on way or another.
posted on 23/6/19
But you aren’t removing the human element because they are still judging the offside calls. So you won’t get 100% accuracy. You don’t risk losing the spontaneous reaction of scoring a goal either, you’ll still have that, though reviews do make it that teams have to wait in thr instances that a goal is reviewed - but it’s a small percentage of all goals scored, so for the correct decisions, or increased chance, I can live with that.
Page 1 of 3