Does everyone think backpasses should be given as backpasses even if it was not intended as a backpass? So any contact off the defender and the keeper can't handle it? It would make things more fair. And shouldn't be an indirect freekick. Should be a penalty. I think this would bring the rule in line with the handball rule and make it more fair.
Think that won the argument.
Sissoko's penalty was "unlucky" interpreted from what his intentions are. That doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble.
Sissoko's penalty was "unlucky" interpreted from what his intentions are
===============
Unlucky? so it is wrong!
Can't believe I won an argument
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Poolmyfinger - TAA & Robbo Deliver Better Than Amazon (U12438)
posted 24 seconds ago
The penalty was given because we are a big club and big clubs deserve those decisions.
You'll get all the ref help you need once you win the league 18 times and the CL six times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pipe down Steve Bannon, don’t you have a KKK meeting to attend?
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 3 hours ago
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think sticking your arm out like that should be a pen, otherwise every defender can just stick there arms up in the box and say 'well i was just pointing to cover the space'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why wasn't TAA's arm sticking out and handled the ball GIVEN?
Nice to know you pick and choose your battles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't given because the referee team decided that the ball had already crossed the dead ball line before it hit TAA's arm and so was dead. They therefore gave a corner.
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, because the sanction for a back pass is an indirect free kick. If you are asking should it be a foul, then under current interpretation - possibly? I mean the ball simply hitting a defenders hand is not automatically a foul, there are other criteria to account like the position of the arms. So in your case it would be did the defender pass the ball to the keeper or was it a deflection?
The ref was worried about losing his hubcaps !!
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, because the sanction for a back pass is an indirect free kick. If you are asking should it be a foul, then under current interpretation - possibly? I mean the ball simply hitting a defenders hand is not automatically a foul, there are other criteria to account like the position of the arms. So in your case it would be did the defender pass the ball to the keeper or was it a deflection?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The interpretation now is if it hits the defender's hand then it is a penalty. With it being in a natural position for being a human being taken into account and then ignored and given anyway.
Therefore if the player's foot is off the ground and the ball hits the foot and goes to the goalkeeper and they pick it up. That should be an indirect freekick, but it shouldn't, it should be a penalty to bring it in line with the handball rule.
Summary. It should be facking deliberate handball like it is deliberate pass back and even that's a canting indirect free kick.
How about indirect freekick for what they currently give these harsh handballs for, then penalty if the handball is blocking an obvious goalscoring opportunity? An eye for an eye, a goal for a goal. It makes sense.
I do not want my children growing up thinking that if someone tries to kill them that they themselves are going to jail and I probably don't even have any children.
The current rule is a toenail for an eye. Please do not forget that the bible says:
Matthew (5:38-42) in the New Testament, "Jesus repudiates even that notion. "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
That's pretty easy to interpret so I do not see why the refs are getting it so wrong.
"If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble."
I hate this sort of argument.
Ultimately it's either right or it isn't - we shouldn't be blaming a defender if they've done nothing wrong.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
"If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble."
I hate this sort of argument.
Ultimately it's either right or it isn't - we shouldn't be blaming a defender if they've done nothing wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston. I disagree. It is like if you get knocked off your bike whilst cycling on the road. Surely you know that if you are on a road on your bike, you are likely to get knocked off, so have no one to blame but yourself.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, because the sanction for a back pass is an indirect free kick. If you are asking should it be a foul, then under current interpretation - possibly? I mean the ball simply hitting a defenders hand is not automatically a foul, there are other criteria to account like the position of the arms. So in your case it would be did the defender pass the ball to the keeper or was it a deflection?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The interpretation now is if it hits the defender's hand then it is a penalty. With it being in a natural position for being a human being taken into account and then ignored and given anyway.
Therefore if the player's foot is off the ground and the ball hits the foot and goes to the goalkeeper and they pick it up. That should be an indirect freekick, but it shouldn't, it should be a penalty to bring it in line with the handball rule.
Summary. It should be facking deliberate handball like it is deliberate pass back and even that's a canting indirect free kick.
How about indirect freekick for what they currently give these harsh handballs for, then penalty if the handball is blocking an obvious goalscoring opportunity? An eye for an eye, a goal for a goal. It makes sense.
I do not want my children growing up thinking that if someone tries to kill them that they themselves are going to jail and I probably don't even have any children.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your contradicting yourself by saying that if it hits the hand it is a penalty and in your next sentence that hand position is taken into account.
In any case, the reason for this is quite simple. Intent is impossible to referee and the inconsistencies in different approaches creates an unfair playing field where you might get a penalty purely based on who your ref is. By limiting this (through removing the interpretation of deliberate) you lessen the impact of opinion.
People are reacting like we are used to seeing half a dozen accidental handballs per game through blocking crosses that were ignored before and will now be punished. Defenders are quite capable of blocking the ball with other body parts and always have done.
Defenders have options. They can attempt to block the ball, with or without their hands out and weigh up the risk. If they are unable to block the ball without using their hand then they shouldn't block the ball. If a slow defender cannot catch up to a striker without pulling him back, he doesnt automatically get the right to pull him back. He can do, but must accept that he will be penalised.
Regarding back passes. They are currently punished by an indirect free kick, and it is deemed easier to judge if a player has deliberately passed the ball as opposed to deliberately handled a ball. Petition IFAB to upgrade this to a penalty offence if you want, bit it currently isn't comparable.
As for your idea about obvious goal scoring opportunities. Introducing this puts us right back to extreme interpretations by the ref. If I cross it and it is handled, is it a goalscoring opportunity if I had an unmarked teammate at the far post and my cross may have reached him? Is it a goalscoring opportunity if a hand blocks a goalbound shot, because there is a chance the keeper might save it? But then he might fumble it into my teammate and so it was still a goalscoring opportunity? It creates to much uncertainty.
This is what many people overlook when moaning about things like VAR and offside. The law needs to be written with a certainty, otherwise it becomes difficult to enforce. Yes, this leads to very marginal offside calls, but they are still offside. If you move the offside line (eg both feet have to be beyond the defender; must be daylight) then you will still get just as many tight calls, they will just be at the new line. If you say ooh you should let that one slide because it was close, then you open up an undefined margin of acceptance that becomes impossible to police. The reason we used to give advantage to the attacking team is because it was impossible to be fully accurate when checking offside and so, when in doubt, play on. Now we have a much greater level of accuracy and so we don,t need to have the same level of doubt.
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
Winston. I disagree. It is like if you get knocked off your bike whilst cycling on the road. Surely you know that if you are on a road on your bike, you are likely to get knocked off, so have no one to blame but yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking of the same analogy!
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 10 minutes ago
Especially if Robbing or GT are driving
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we please keep this on the cyclist thread? Thanks in advance
Lol just off to football now and we actually have a rule that any contact off the defender cannot be picked up by the goalkeeper or it is a penalty. It gives my leprosy
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
Sissoko's penalty was "unlucky" interpreted from what his intentions are
===============
Unlucky? so it is wrong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You cannot be serious.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 51 minutes ago
"If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble."
I hate this sort of argument.
Ultimately it's either right or it isn't - we shouldn't be blaming a defender if they've done nothing wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main point is his arm was in an unnatural position. The ref was doing his job correctly, it's the rules that need changing if anything.
Sign in if you want to comment
So now they are changing VAR handball
Page 6 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 8/7/19
Does everyone think backpasses should be given as backpasses even if it was not intended as a backpass? So any contact off the defender and the keeper can't handle it? It would make things more fair. And shouldn't be an indirect freekick. Should be a penalty. I think this would bring the rule in line with the handball rule and make it more fair.
posted on 8/7/19
Think that won the argument.
posted on 8/7/19
Sissoko's penalty was "unlucky" interpreted from what his intentions are. That doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble.
posted on 8/7/19
Sissoko's penalty was "unlucky" interpreted from what his intentions are
===============
Unlucky? so it is wrong!
posted on 8/7/19
Can't believe I won an argument
posted on 8/7/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Poolmyfinger - TAA & Robbo Deliver Better Than Amazon (U12438)
posted 24 seconds ago
The penalty was given because we are a big club and big clubs deserve those decisions.
You'll get all the ref help you need once you win the league 18 times and the CL six times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pipe down Steve Bannon, don’t you have a KKK meeting to attend?
posted on 8/7/19
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 3 hours ago
comment by Adam 'The interview' Lallana (U20650)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think sticking your arm out like that should be a pen, otherwise every defender can just stick there arms up in the box and say 'well i was just pointing to cover the space'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why wasn't TAA's arm sticking out and handled the ball GIVEN?
Nice to know you pick and choose your battles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't given because the referee team decided that the ball had already crossed the dead ball line before it hit TAA's arm and so was dead. They therefore gave a corner.
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
posted on 8/7/19
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
posted on 8/7/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, because the sanction for a back pass is an indirect free kick. If you are asking should it be a foul, then under current interpretation - possibly? I mean the ball simply hitting a defenders hand is not automatically a foul, there are other criteria to account like the position of the arms. So in your case it would be did the defender pass the ball to the keeper or was it a deflection?
posted on 8/7/19
The ref was worried about losing his hubcaps !!
posted on 8/7/19
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
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Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
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Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
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I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
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so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
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No, because the sanction for a back pass is an indirect free kick. If you are asking should it be a foul, then under current interpretation - possibly? I mean the ball simply hitting a defenders hand is not automatically a foul, there are other criteria to account like the position of the arms. So in your case it would be did the defender pass the ball to the keeper or was it a deflection?
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The interpretation now is if it hits the defender's hand then it is a penalty. With it being in a natural position for being a human being taken into account and then ignored and given anyway.
Therefore if the player's foot is off the ground and the ball hits the foot and goes to the goalkeeper and they pick it up. That should be an indirect freekick, but it shouldn't, it should be a penalty to bring it in line with the handball rule.
Summary. It should be facking deliberate handball like it is deliberate pass back and even that's a canting indirect free kick.
How about indirect freekick for what they currently give these harsh handballs for, then penalty if the handball is blocking an obvious goalscoring opportunity? An eye for an eye, a goal for a goal. It makes sense.
I do not want my children growing up thinking that if someone tries to kill them that they themselves are going to jail and I probably don't even have any children.
posted on 8/7/19
The current rule is a toenail for an eye. Please do not forget that the bible says:
Matthew (5:38-42) in the New Testament, "Jesus repudiates even that notion. "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
That's pretty easy to interpret so I do not see why the refs are getting it so wrong.
posted on 8/7/19
"If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble."
I hate this sort of argument.
Ultimately it's either right or it isn't - we shouldn't be blaming a defender if they've done nothing wrong.
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
"If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble."
I hate this sort of argument.
Ultimately it's either right or it isn't - we shouldn't be blaming a defender if they've done nothing wrong.
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posted on 8/7/19
Winston. I disagree. It is like if you get knocked off your bike whilst cycling on the road. Surely you know that if you are on a road on your bike, you are likely to get knocked off, so have no one to blame but yourself.
posted on 8/7/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 31 minutes ago
Leaving aside whether it was handball or not, does anyone know what Sissoko was even trying to do?
Just watched it back and Trippier is standing in front of him so wouldn't be able to see him pointing, no one is overlapping Mane, and Sissoko doesn't even look like he's looking at the ball.
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pointing is a natural action in football, especially as a defender when you are organising, tracking runners, marking etc You will see it dozens of times a game and often between team mates who are even making direct eye to eye contact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is saying pointing is wrong but do it before the ball comes in. Having seen the type of pens that were being given throughout last seasons cl it's astonishing that some folk are defending Sissokos decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping for headers leads to own goals in some cases. Do you think that defenders should stop jumping for headers? They must have seen other incidents where jumping has lead to own goals? Surely??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this is a misrepresentation of the argument. Defenders don't need to avoid heading the ball because it might lead to an own goal. They need to weigh up and accept the risk that if they head the ball and mess it up then they concede an own goal, and make their decision accordingly. A defender can't demand that the own goal be disallowed because they are entitled to head the ball consequence free.
This also applies to handball. Players can point, wave, or do the saturday night fever dance in the box if they want. They simply have to accept the risk that doing so increases the chances of giving away a penalty if the ball hits their arm. So if they want to reduce that risk then they have to keep their hands to their side.
It also applies to other fouls. Defenders are allowed to slide tackle to win the ball. That entitlement does not mean that they shouldn't be penalised if they miss the ball and take the player. They can't make the ref overturn the foul by saying "it's natural for me to slide tackle to try to win the ball".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so what happens if the ball hits the defender's foot and then the goalkeeper picks it up? Should that be a penalty? Remember I am asking SHOULD?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, because the sanction for a back pass is an indirect free kick. If you are asking should it be a foul, then under current interpretation - possibly? I mean the ball simply hitting a defenders hand is not automatically a foul, there are other criteria to account like the position of the arms. So in your case it would be did the defender pass the ball to the keeper or was it a deflection?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The interpretation now is if it hits the defender's hand then it is a penalty. With it being in a natural position for being a human being taken into account and then ignored and given anyway.
Therefore if the player's foot is off the ground and the ball hits the foot and goes to the goalkeeper and they pick it up. That should be an indirect freekick, but it shouldn't, it should be a penalty to bring it in line with the handball rule.
Summary. It should be facking deliberate handball like it is deliberate pass back and even that's a canting indirect free kick.
How about indirect freekick for what they currently give these harsh handballs for, then penalty if the handball is blocking an obvious goalscoring opportunity? An eye for an eye, a goal for a goal. It makes sense.
I do not want my children growing up thinking that if someone tries to kill them that they themselves are going to jail and I probably don't even have any children.
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Your contradicting yourself by saying that if it hits the hand it is a penalty and in your next sentence that hand position is taken into account.
In any case, the reason for this is quite simple. Intent is impossible to referee and the inconsistencies in different approaches creates an unfair playing field where you might get a penalty purely based on who your ref is. By limiting this (through removing the interpretation of deliberate) you lessen the impact of opinion.
People are reacting like we are used to seeing half a dozen accidental handballs per game through blocking crosses that were ignored before and will now be punished. Defenders are quite capable of blocking the ball with other body parts and always have done.
Defenders have options. They can attempt to block the ball, with or without their hands out and weigh up the risk. If they are unable to block the ball without using their hand then they shouldn't block the ball. If a slow defender cannot catch up to a striker without pulling him back, he doesnt automatically get the right to pull him back. He can do, but must accept that he will be penalised.
Regarding back passes. They are currently punished by an indirect free kick, and it is deemed easier to judge if a player has deliberately passed the ball as opposed to deliberately handled a ball. Petition IFAB to upgrade this to a penalty offence if you want, bit it currently isn't comparable.
As for your idea about obvious goal scoring opportunities. Introducing this puts us right back to extreme interpretations by the ref. If I cross it and it is handled, is it a goalscoring opportunity if I had an unmarked teammate at the far post and my cross may have reached him? Is it a goalscoring opportunity if a hand blocks a goalbound shot, because there is a chance the keeper might save it? But then he might fumble it into my teammate and so it was still a goalscoring opportunity? It creates to much uncertainty.
This is what many people overlook when moaning about things like VAR and offside. The law needs to be written with a certainty, otherwise it becomes difficult to enforce. Yes, this leads to very marginal offside calls, but they are still offside. If you move the offside line (eg both feet have to be beyond the defender; must be daylight) then you will still get just as many tight calls, they will just be at the new line. If you say ooh you should let that one slide because it was close, then you open up an undefined margin of acceptance that becomes impossible to police. The reason we used to give advantage to the attacking team is because it was impossible to be fully accurate when checking offside and so, when in doubt, play on. Now we have a much greater level of accuracy and so we don,t need to have the same level of doubt.
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Declan McDaid (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
Winston. I disagree. It is like if you get knocked off your bike whilst cycling on the road. Surely you know that if you are on a road on your bike, you are likely to get knocked off, so have no one to blame but yourself.
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I was thinking of the same analogy!
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 10 minutes ago
Especially if Robbing or GT are driving
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Can we please keep this on the cyclist thread? Thanks in advance
posted on 8/7/19
Lol just off to football now and we actually have a rule that any contact off the defender cannot be picked up by the goalkeeper or it is a penalty. It gives my leprosy
posted on 8/7/19
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 2 hours, 45 minutes ago
Sissoko's penalty was "unlucky" interpreted from what his intentions are
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Unlucky? so it is wrong!
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You cannot be serious.
posted on 8/7/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 51 minutes ago
"If you stick your arm out like that in the box, you're asking for trouble."
I hate this sort of argument.
Ultimately it's either right or it isn't - we shouldn't be blaming a defender if they've done nothing wrong.
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The main point is his arm was in an unnatural position. The ref was doing his job correctly, it's the rules that need changing if anything.
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