Except you can, you can have it both ways.
You can’t be bragging about how your sales are massive, then sell players blaming it on FFP.
Especially when the previous two seasons, you only had combined losses of £4m.
Looked like losses for last season will be in eight figures, thing that I can’t understand is wages/TO is manageable, we are selling players but still losing money, don’t think Radz is taking cash out of the club so admin expenses are the problem by the sound of it,
As the accounts don't have a breakdown of admin expenses we won't know exactly BUT
Y/E 30/06/17 Admin was £37m
Y/E 30/06/18 Admin was £53m
This was largely offset by Gains on player sales of £16m
If we assume Admin is the same for this year then..
Clarke is a £9m Gain
Pontus is a £5.5m - £3.5m / 2) = £3.75m Gain
Meaning unless the offloading of smaller players recoups the rest we'll have to sell one more player to balance the books on LAST years figures.
Actually I am being stupid....
Pontus and possibly Clarke will be in the Y/E 30/06/20 Accounts.
Vieira offsets Bamford / Douglas (almost) which means the £11,000,000 from the 49ers was purely to cover admin!
Not sure the 49ers was a P & L item, so has no affect on FFP
No, but it was a Cash Flow from Financing Activity, which means unless he is thinking of diluting more shares then he will have to sell in order to balance the books.
So is it balancing the books or FFP, why we are selling players every year.
Two very different things
Personally I think the FFP thing is a bit of a nonsense, I can't see how we are close to it.
So it is balancing the books.
Was Jansson sold for financial reasons? Is there any chance that it was to do with the manger wanting rid if him? It seemed like a strange move leaving such a big club. I can't help wonder if it is at least partly due to him not following the managers orders when he told his team to let Villa equalise.
The club put this out there, then let the fans do all the defending of the owners for them.
The massive increase in costs is a worry and bringing in Casilla and his wages, Cost and his wages and committing club to paying 13m or so at end of season to purchase Costa for another 4 years is surely going to increase our costs again this season.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 13 minutes ago
Was Jansson sold for financial reasons? Is there any chance that it was to do with the manger wanting rid if him? It seemed like a strange move leaving such a big club. I can't help wonder if it is at least partly due to him not following the managers orders when he told his team to let Villa equalise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd imagine that as soon as it became known within the club that Bielsa had had enough of Pontus, the finance bods clapped their hands together, licked their lips and sold him quickly!
017/18 £4m loss, £18m profit on player sales
2018/19 Expected £15m+ loss*, c.£7m profit on player sales**
All things being equal there's a loss of c.£22m before player sales. We're in FFP/P&S territory here.
* https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-latest/no-shortage-of-links-between-andrea-radrizzani-and-qatar-but-leeds-united-adamant-the-club-is-not-for-sale-1-9790356
** https://www.transfermarkt.com/ronaldo-vieira/profil/spieler/434676 - ballpark figure, but I doubt RV had much of a book value.
Sol
Where you getting your £7m profit on players, we bought players too during last season
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 1 minute ago
Sol
Where you getting your £7m profit on players, we bought players too during last season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, "gain on disposal of player registrations" which is included in P & L.
If the £15m+ loss is accurate then it would have been more like £22m if we hadn't sold Vieira.
Whichever way you look at it FFP/P&S has to be a consideration.
I take you point 👍🏻
I’ve just seen a report and said veira sale was in the 2017/18 accounts ???
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 1 minute ago
I take you point 👍🏻
I’ve just seen a report and said veira sale was in the 2017/18 accounts ???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that would make my figures pretty useless. Wikipedia says the deal was 1st August?
Our proximity to P&S limits is really determined by how much or how little owners inject, part from a4 mill or so from AR a year or 2 ago and 49ers I don't know about anything else.
The concerning thing would be having to show projections for next 2 years, not sure how they can show any projections that help unless the projections assume promotion and/or player sales.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/financialfootballnews.com/leeds-uniteds-2018-finances/amp/
That’s the report sol.
And not sure it’s right
From LIW's link:
What a busy transfer for Leeds! A remarkable 14 players entered Elland Road while only 2 departed.
In came (here we go) Forshaw (£4.6m), Jansson (£3.6m), Saiz (£3.2m), Roberts (£2.6m), Alioski (£2.3m), Klich (£1.5m), Sacko (£1.5m), De Bock (£1.5m), Grot (£1.4m), Cibicki (£1.4m), Ekuban (£0.5m), Ideguchi (£0.5m), Halme (£0.5m) and Wiedwald (£0.5m) for a combined £25.6m.
Out went Wood (£14.8m) and Bridcutt (£1.0m) for a combined £15.8m.
[...]
Leeds recorded a profit on player sales of £18.1m (although this does also include the sale of Viera at the end of the season) largely due to the sale of Wood. This figure helped make sure their losses weren’t far greater.
The lack of sales this year (also considering the sale of Viera has already been taken into account), Leeds losses are likely to be much greater this season.
________________
I think he's forgotten about Charlie Taylor and used Vieira to make the numbers add up.
Rubbish somebody is creaming off millions and we all know who that is.What about the majority of other clubs in the championship who have much smaller crowds.I think they are using the fair play rules as an excuse .Nothing would convince me otherwise.
comment by The Donn (U15142)
posted 14 minutes ago
Rubbish somebody is creaming off millions and we all know who that is.What about the majority of other clubs in the championship who have much smaller crowds.I think they are using the fair play rules as an excuse .Nothing would convince me otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One could be forgiven for thinking that all of AR's travel to/from Singapore is funded, in addition to our man in the Far East who has delivered Ideguchi and that's about it, in addition to scouting network costs.
Expect costs to rise substantially again this year as rent for ER kicks in.
comment by Sol (U2745)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
From LIW's link:
What a busy transfer for Leeds! A remarkable 14 players entered Elland Road while only 2 departed.
In came (here we go) Forshaw (£4.6m), Jansson (£3.6m), Saiz (£3.2m), Roberts (£2.6m), Alioski (£2.3m), Klich (£1.5m), Sacko (£1.5m), De Bock (£1.5m), Grot (£1.4m), Cibicki (£1.4m), Ekuban (£0.5m), Ideguchi (£0.5m), Halme (£0.5m) and Wiedwald (£0.5m) for a combined £25.6m.
Out went Wood (£14.8m) and Bridcutt (£1.0m) for a combined £15.8m.
[...]
Leeds recorded a profit on player sales of £18.1m (although this does also include the sale of Viera at the end of the season) largely due to the sale of Wood. This figure helped make sure their losses weren’t far greater.
The lack of sales this year (also considering the sale of Viera has already been taken into account), Leeds losses are likely to be much greater this season.
________________
I think he's forgotten about Charlie Taylor and used Vieira to make the numbers add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone under 1.5m including Sacko and De Bock, waste...£7.8m shocking.
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posted on 16/7/19
Except you can, you can have it both ways.
posted on 16/7/19
You can’t be bragging about how your sales are massive, then sell players blaming it on FFP.
Especially when the previous two seasons, you only had combined losses of £4m.
posted on 16/7/19
Looked like losses for last season will be in eight figures, thing that I can’t understand is wages/TO is manageable, we are selling players but still losing money, don’t think Radz is taking cash out of the club so admin expenses are the problem by the sound of it,
posted on 16/7/19
As the accounts don't have a breakdown of admin expenses we won't know exactly BUT
Y/E 30/06/17 Admin was £37m
Y/E 30/06/18 Admin was £53m
This was largely offset by Gains on player sales of £16m
If we assume Admin is the same for this year then..
Clarke is a £9m Gain
Pontus is a £5.5m - £3.5m / 2) = £3.75m Gain
Meaning unless the offloading of smaller players recoups the rest we'll have to sell one more player to balance the books on LAST years figures.
posted on 16/7/19
Actually I am being stupid....
Pontus and possibly Clarke will be in the Y/E 30/06/20 Accounts.
Vieira offsets Bamford / Douglas (almost) which means the £11,000,000 from the 49ers was purely to cover admin!
posted on 16/7/19
And no one listens.
posted on 16/7/19
Not sure the 49ers was a P & L item, so has no affect on FFP
posted on 16/7/19
No, but it was a Cash Flow from Financing Activity, which means unless he is thinking of diluting more shares then he will have to sell in order to balance the books.
posted on 16/7/19
So is it balancing the books or FFP, why we are selling players every year.
Two very different things
posted on 16/7/19
Personally I think the FFP thing is a bit of a nonsense, I can't see how we are close to it.
So it is balancing the books.
posted on 16/7/19
Agree pal
posted on 16/7/19
Was Jansson sold for financial reasons? Is there any chance that it was to do with the manger wanting rid if him? It seemed like a strange move leaving such a big club. I can't help wonder if it is at least partly due to him not following the managers orders when he told his team to let Villa equalise.
posted on 16/7/19
The club put this out there, then let the fans do all the defending of the owners for them.
The massive increase in costs is a worry and bringing in Casilla and his wages, Cost and his wages and committing club to paying 13m or so at end of season to purchase Costa for another 4 years is surely going to increase our costs again this season.
posted on 16/7/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 13 minutes ago
Was Jansson sold for financial reasons? Is there any chance that it was to do with the manger wanting rid if him? It seemed like a strange move leaving such a big club. I can't help wonder if it is at least partly due to him not following the managers orders when he told his team to let Villa equalise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd imagine that as soon as it became known within the club that Bielsa had had enough of Pontus, the finance bods clapped their hands together, licked their lips and sold him quickly!
posted on 16/7/19
017/18 £4m loss, £18m profit on player sales
2018/19 Expected £15m+ loss*, c.£7m profit on player sales**
All things being equal there's a loss of c.£22m before player sales. We're in FFP/P&S territory here.
* https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-latest/no-shortage-of-links-between-andrea-radrizzani-and-qatar-but-leeds-united-adamant-the-club-is-not-for-sale-1-9790356
** https://www.transfermarkt.com/ronaldo-vieira/profil/spieler/434676 - ballpark figure, but I doubt RV had much of a book value.
posted on 16/7/19
Sol
Where you getting your £7m profit on players, we bought players too during last season
posted on 16/7/19
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 1 minute ago
Sol
Where you getting your £7m profit on players, we bought players too during last season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, "gain on disposal of player registrations" which is included in P & L.
If the £15m+ loss is accurate then it would have been more like £22m if we hadn't sold Vieira.
Whichever way you look at it FFP/P&S has to be a consideration.
posted on 16/7/19
I take you point 👍🏻
I’ve just seen a report and said veira sale was in the 2017/18 accounts ???
posted on 16/7/19
comment by LIW Radchancer (U8453)
posted 1 minute ago
I take you point 👍🏻
I’ve just seen a report and said veira sale was in the 2017/18 accounts ???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that would make my figures pretty useless. Wikipedia says the deal was 1st August?
posted on 16/7/19
Our proximity to P&S limits is really determined by how much or how little owners inject, part from a4 mill or so from AR a year or 2 ago and 49ers I don't know about anything else.
The concerning thing would be having to show projections for next 2 years, not sure how they can show any projections that help unless the projections assume promotion and/or player sales.
posted on 16/7/19
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/financialfootballnews.com/leeds-uniteds-2018-finances/amp/
That’s the report sol.
And not sure it’s right
posted on 16/7/19
From LIW's link:
What a busy transfer for Leeds! A remarkable 14 players entered Elland Road while only 2 departed.
In came (here we go) Forshaw (£4.6m), Jansson (£3.6m), Saiz (£3.2m), Roberts (£2.6m), Alioski (£2.3m), Klich (£1.5m), Sacko (£1.5m), De Bock (£1.5m), Grot (£1.4m), Cibicki (£1.4m), Ekuban (£0.5m), Ideguchi (£0.5m), Halme (£0.5m) and Wiedwald (£0.5m) for a combined £25.6m.
Out went Wood (£14.8m) and Bridcutt (£1.0m) for a combined £15.8m.
[...]
Leeds recorded a profit on player sales of £18.1m (although this does also include the sale of Viera at the end of the season) largely due to the sale of Wood. This figure helped make sure their losses weren’t far greater.
The lack of sales this year (also considering the sale of Viera has already been taken into account), Leeds losses are likely to be much greater this season.
________________
I think he's forgotten about Charlie Taylor and used Vieira to make the numbers add up.
posted on 16/7/19
Rubbish somebody is creaming off millions and we all know who that is.What about the majority of other clubs in the championship who have much smaller crowds.I think they are using the fair play rules as an excuse .Nothing would convince me otherwise.
posted on 16/7/19
comment by The Donn (U15142)
posted 14 minutes ago
Rubbish somebody is creaming off millions and we all know who that is.What about the majority of other clubs in the championship who have much smaller crowds.I think they are using the fair play rules as an excuse .Nothing would convince me otherwise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One could be forgiven for thinking that all of AR's travel to/from Singapore is funded, in addition to our man in the Far East who has delivered Ideguchi and that's about it, in addition to scouting network costs.
Expect costs to rise substantially again this year as rent for ER kicks in.
posted on 16/7/19
comment by Sol (U2745)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
From LIW's link:
What a busy transfer for Leeds! A remarkable 14 players entered Elland Road while only 2 departed.
In came (here we go) Forshaw (£4.6m), Jansson (£3.6m), Saiz (£3.2m), Roberts (£2.6m), Alioski (£2.3m), Klich (£1.5m), Sacko (£1.5m), De Bock (£1.5m), Grot (£1.4m), Cibicki (£1.4m), Ekuban (£0.5m), Ideguchi (£0.5m), Halme (£0.5m) and Wiedwald (£0.5m) for a combined £25.6m.
Out went Wood (£14.8m) and Bridcutt (£1.0m) for a combined £15.8m.
[...]
Leeds recorded a profit on player sales of £18.1m (although this does also include the sale of Viera at the end of the season) largely due to the sale of Wood. This figure helped make sure their losses weren’t far greater.
The lack of sales this year (also considering the sale of Viera has already been taken into account), Leeds losses are likely to be much greater this season.
________________
I think he's forgotten about Charlie Taylor and used Vieira to make the numbers add up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone under 1.5m including Sacko and De Bock, waste...£7.8m shocking.
Page 1 of 2