Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he's gone, but hazard would have had a field day yesterday. The position barkley found himself, especially when he was into the box and shimmied left and had a low shot saved by ddg, hazards bread and butter to cut in and slot home from there.
It makes sense for the players at/not at your disposal
No way you can press high with limited energy in midfield and fairly slow center backs
Also it's unrealistic to expect this set of players to pass their way slower through a tight defense
OGS is at least playing to the teams strengths, whether it's viable against sides not willing to commit men forward is another matter
Rosso, I'm interested in whether this perspective modifies your initial critique of yesterday's game plan. Is it possible that ceding midfield possession could be a winning tactic against teams that attack us - albeit smoothing out the formational wrinkles that gave Chelsea too many half chances? Play a high press when we need to but deploy Fergie's Arsenal blueprint where relevant?
(Btw, I had to rely on highlights due to flying home from summer holidays yesterday so not claiming a meaningful view of the question myself.)
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he's gone, but hazard would have had a field day yesterday. The position barkley found himself, especially when he was into the box and shimmied left and had a low shot saved by ddg, hazards bread and butter to cut in and slot home from there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine we'd have lined up differently if we'd had to face Hazard!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he's gone, but hazard would have had a field day yesterday. The position barkley found himself, especially when he was into the box and shimmied left and had a low shot saved by ddg, hazards bread and butter to cut in and slot home from there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine we'd have lined up differently if we'd had to face Hazard!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lol of course, but is just funny, we finally have the high tempo quick passing personnel and an active striker, and hazard has now gone. A shame.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Rosso, I'm interested in whether this perspective modifies your initial critique of yesterday's game plan. Is it possible that ceding midfield possession could be a winning tactic against teams that attack us - albeit smoothing out the formational wrinkles that gave Chelsea too many half chances? Play a high press when we need to but deploy Fergie's Arsenal blueprint where relevant?
(Btw, I had to rely on highlights due to flying home from summer holidays yesterday so not claiming a meaningful view of the question myself.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it doesn’t, RR.
What I wanted to to here first and foremost was take a look at exactly what happened, then consider why as an afterthought for discussion.
Beyond that there’s the judgment of whether the plan worked, not just in terms of the result, but in terms of the football and control of the game.
And for me, tactically, it was still a mistake that we lucked out with.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
We were lucky yesterday. Very lucky in fact. We will easily be sussed out playing that way. Chelsea had some very good chances in that first half and quite frankly could have gone in 2-1 up. Then what do we do as our whole game plan is out the window and do we have the players to then create when a team sits back especially a better team.
Loved the atmosphere, intensity and passion yesterday and obviously the result however I’m not going to let it mask my judgement. Chelsea played right into our hands which I thought was naivety on Lampard part. We can’t and don’t have the players to control a game and settle things down. No plan B whatsoever and that eventually will be our downfall. I expect many games even against lesser clubs to be one of frustration. Starting with next Monday where I expect Wolves to completely dominate the centre of the pitch and if we go behind we will lose. It’s imperative in many games that we get the first goal in games this season. This team is not set up to chase games
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
It may not have been the game plan, we’re just maybe a bit schit at playing in Ole’s system at the moment. Ole said he needs 12 months for us to be where we are supposed to be and he has talked about playing on the front foot.
We’re just not very good at the moment, hopefully that changes soon.
And for me, tactically, it was still a mistake that we lucked out with.
...................
Maybe Ole didn't expect Chelsea to come at us like they did at the start. If he did, he needs to revisit the drawing board soonest.
No plan B whatsoever
.............
Hard to say on yesterdays game as we didn't need one.
Leicester won the league playing the same way in 2015/2016 with lesser players. This shows that we should win the league if we continue playing this way this season and also realistically the CL because we have better players than Leicester did.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
And for me, tactically, it was still a mistake that we lucked out with.
...................
Maybe Ole didn't expect Chelsea to come at us like they did at the start. If he did, he needs to revisit the drawing board soonest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea played very similar to how Derby played last season.
High intensity pressing and pushed the full backs right up. Creates overloads in attack but ultimately leaves them exposed on the break.
comment by Dave Better (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
Of course there is a plan B and more. We've seen Ole set us up in deferent ways already. To say there's no plan B is simply odd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see how him setting us up to be polite is a plan B
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Dave Better (U11711)
posted 3 minutes ago
Of course there is a plan B and more. We've seen Ole set us up in deferent ways already. To say there's no plan B is simply odd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really....I don’t see it.
Our plan is to sit back, let teams come at us and play on the counter. We can’t control a football match. We can’t keep possession for long periods of time and wear out the opposition. We can’t keep sustained attacks with pressure high up the pitch. Even at home we can’t dominate games. We are a counter attacking side now sitting deep and playing with a lot of speed up top.
Bring Fred into this team and we'd see far more control.
To be serious though I think 2 of our 3 midfield spots are in place now in McT and Pogba. We just need one of Fred, Pereira, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Gomes etc to show that they can be the third. Some of those can as well be used in the forward three positions or in a diamond 4 in midfield.
Really....I don’t see it.
...............
Python
Of course you didn't. We didn't need one.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Bring Fred into this team and we'd see far more control.
..............
My choice in the starting line up differed to Ole's only by Fred in for Pereira and James in for Lingard. I knew neither would happen.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 55 seconds ago
Really....I don’t see it.
...............
Python
Of course you didn't. We didn't need one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure about that after 60 mins. Hindsight is a wonderful thing I suppose but at that point we were struggling to keep hold of the ball. Said it all along we need a player who can keep hold of possession and take the sting out of games. We simply don’t have that
comment by Dave Better (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
We've just spent 6 weeks of preseason pressing high up the pitch and had multiple games where we dominated possession.
Why have we spent most of preseason playing completely differently from how you've described we do?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you watch the pre season games?
Spurs excellent first half second half they dominated
Milan game we far from controlled the game
Inter game was very good I agree
Other games aren’t worth even mentioning due to opposition
Sign in if you want to comment
Direct football?
Page 1 of 4
posted on 12/8/19
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he's gone, but hazard would have had a field day yesterday. The position barkley found himself, especially when he was into the box and shimmied left and had a low shot saved by ddg, hazards bread and butter to cut in and slot home from there.
posted on 12/8/19
It makes sense for the players at/not at your disposal
No way you can press high with limited energy in midfield and fairly slow center backs
Also it's unrealistic to expect this set of players to pass their way slower through a tight defense
OGS is at least playing to the teams strengths, whether it's viable against sides not willing to commit men forward is another matter
posted on 12/8/19
Rosso, I'm interested in whether this perspective modifies your initial critique of yesterday's game plan. Is it possible that ceding midfield possession could be a winning tactic against teams that attack us - albeit smoothing out the formational wrinkles that gave Chelsea too many half chances? Play a high press when we need to but deploy Fergie's Arsenal blueprint where relevant?
(Btw, I had to rely on highlights due to flying home from summer holidays yesterday so not claiming a meaningful view of the question myself.)
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he's gone, but hazard would have had a field day yesterday. The position barkley found himself, especially when he was into the box and shimmied left and had a low shot saved by ddg, hazards bread and butter to cut in and slot home from there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine we'd have lined up differently if we'd had to face Hazard!
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Mike (U1170)
posted 8 minutes ago
Might work in some games, but teams with better players in the positions Barkley and Mount were easily able to take up with regularity will hurt us, with relatively little difficulty imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously he's gone, but hazard would have had a field day yesterday. The position barkley found himself, especially when he was into the box and shimmied left and had a low shot saved by ddg, hazards bread and butter to cut in and slot home from there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine we'd have lined up differently if we'd had to face Hazard!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
lol of course, but is just funny, we finally have the high tempo quick passing personnel and an active striker, and hazard has now gone. A shame.
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
Rosso, I'm interested in whether this perspective modifies your initial critique of yesterday's game plan. Is it possible that ceding midfield possession could be a winning tactic against teams that attack us - albeit smoothing out the formational wrinkles that gave Chelsea too many half chances? Play a high press when we need to but deploy Fergie's Arsenal blueprint where relevant?
(Btw, I had to rely on highlights due to flying home from summer holidays yesterday so not claiming a meaningful view of the question myself.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it doesn’t, RR.
What I wanted to to here first and foremost was take a look at exactly what happened, then consider why as an afterthought for discussion.
Beyond that there’s the judgment of whether the plan worked, not just in terms of the result, but in terms of the football and control of the game.
And for me, tactically, it was still a mistake that we lucked out with.
posted on 12/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/8/19
We were lucky yesterday. Very lucky in fact. We will easily be sussed out playing that way. Chelsea had some very good chances in that first half and quite frankly could have gone in 2-1 up. Then what do we do as our whole game plan is out the window and do we have the players to then create when a team sits back especially a better team.
Loved the atmosphere, intensity and passion yesterday and obviously the result however I’m not going to let it mask my judgement. Chelsea played right into our hands which I thought was naivety on Lampard part. We can’t and don’t have the players to control a game and settle things down. No plan B whatsoever and that eventually will be our downfall. I expect many games even against lesser clubs to be one of frustration. Starting with next Monday where I expect Wolves to completely dominate the centre of the pitch and if we go behind we will lose. It’s imperative in many games that we get the first goal in games this season. This team is not set up to chase games
posted on 12/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/8/19
It may not have been the game plan, we’re just maybe a bit schit at playing in Ole’s system at the moment. Ole said he needs 12 months for us to be where we are supposed to be and he has talked about playing on the front foot.
We’re just not very good at the moment, hopefully that changes soon.
posted on 12/8/19
And for me, tactically, it was still a mistake that we lucked out with.
...................
Maybe Ole didn't expect Chelsea to come at us like they did at the start. If he did, he needs to revisit the drawing board soonest.
posted on 12/8/19
No plan B whatsoever
.............
Hard to say on yesterdays game as we didn't need one.
posted on 12/8/19
Leicester won the league playing the same way in 2015/2016 with lesser players. This shows that we should win the league if we continue playing this way this season and also realistically the CL because we have better players than Leicester did.
posted on 12/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
And for me, tactically, it was still a mistake that we lucked out with.
...................
Maybe Ole didn't expect Chelsea to come at us like they did at the start. If he did, he needs to revisit the drawing board soonest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea played very similar to how Derby played last season.
High intensity pressing and pushed the full backs right up. Creates overloads in attack but ultimately leaves them exposed on the break.
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Dave Better (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
Of course there is a plan B and more. We've seen Ole set us up in deferent ways already. To say there's no plan B is simply odd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see how him setting us up to be polite is a plan B
posted on 12/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Dave Better (U11711)
posted 3 minutes ago
Of course there is a plan B and more. We've seen Ole set us up in deferent ways already. To say there's no plan B is simply odd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really....I don’t see it.
Our plan is to sit back, let teams come at us and play on the counter. We can’t control a football match. We can’t keep possession for long periods of time and wear out the opposition. We can’t keep sustained attacks with pressure high up the pitch. Even at home we can’t dominate games. We are a counter attacking side now sitting deep and playing with a lot of speed up top.
posted on 12/8/19
Bring Fred into this team and we'd see far more control.
To be serious though I think 2 of our 3 midfield spots are in place now in McT and Pogba. We just need one of Fred, Pereira, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Gomes etc to show that they can be the third. Some of those can as well be used in the forward three positions or in a diamond 4 in midfield.
posted on 12/8/19
Really....I don’t see it.
...............
Python
Of course you didn't. We didn't need one.
posted on 12/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 12/8/19
Bring Fred into this team and we'd see far more control.
..............
My choice in the starting line up differed to Ole's only by Fred in for Pereira and James in for Lingard. I knew neither would happen.
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 55 seconds ago
Really....I don’t see it.
...............
Python
Of course you didn't. We didn't need one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure about that after 60 mins. Hindsight is a wonderful thing I suppose but at that point we were struggling to keep hold of the ball. Said it all along we need a player who can keep hold of possession and take the sting out of games. We simply don’t have that
posted on 12/8/19
comment by Dave Better (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
We've just spent 6 weeks of preseason pressing high up the pitch and had multiple games where we dominated possession.
Why have we spent most of preseason playing completely differently from how you've described we do?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you watch the pre season games?
Spurs excellent first half second half they dominated
Milan game we far from controlled the game
Inter game was very good I agree
Other games aren’t worth even mentioning due to opposition
Page 1 of 4