I was thinking of posting something about this yesterday.
Its a sad state of affairs that we have an EFL that allows such awful owners to take charge of clubs in their leagues, there must be a better system than that at present.
Its also sad that players earn so much per week and yet clubs face these issues for relatively small sums of money.
Maybe league could look at an emergency fund that could be used to support/purchase clubs in difficulty, with a temporary team appointed until a decent owner can be found, there is surely enough money swilling around to provide funds for such an initiative. We're not talking about billions for bailing out man u, but some tens of millions for the Burys of this world.
You're absolutely right. I saw an interview with an ex director yesterday and then two business acquaintances raised it again this morning.
They don't appear to a single coordinated approach to this, £8 million seems like a lot but the money is clearly about. It does require the existing owner to stand aside but I can't see any reason why they wouldn't accept a reasonable offer to do so.
Such a shame.
No shock whatsoever and there will be more to come.
Gap between elite clubs and from then on down the leagues just gets wider and wider and like any other market the smaller businesses cease to exist.
The customer finds better things to do of a Saturday even to the point of sitting at home or in the pub and watching wall to wall football one game after the other. Fwck the travel and standing in the winter months in sheite stadiums and conditions when most of our game is played.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
No shock whatsoever and there will be more to come.
Gap between elite clubs and from then on down the leagues just gets wider and wider and like any other market the smaller businesses cease to exist.
The customer finds better things to do of a Saturday even to the point of sitting at home or in the pub and watching wall to wall football one game after the other. Fwck the travel and standing in the winter months in sheite stadiums and conditions when most of our game is played.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a shock regarding theituation, more that nothing is happening to find a solution. If you were right, they'd be no clubs under the Championship tier......
FA Cup winners twice including the record 6-0 win only matched this year.
Yes English Football heritage being allowed to sink courtesy of our friends at the FA and Football League.
Criminal for this still to be happening in this day and age.
....Feel for the die hard supporters of these smaller clubs - still feel the pain of the memory of us being on the ropes.
Maybe league could look at an emergency fund that could be used to support/purchase clubs in difficulty
__________________________________
Why?
You'd be removing the incentive to live within your means for clubs. You could have an owner splash the cash as they chase promotion safe in the knowledge that if it all goes tiiits up then the league will bail them out. That then leads to prudent clubs being disadvantaged.
I feel sorry for the Bury fans but it is what it is. They'll be the first of many I suspect.
I do too
Forever indebted to Mr Bates for those times.....
In my experience of sport, governing bodies rarely get involved, when they are most needed, they wash their hands of doing the right thing at the coalface.
The TV deals, the golden handshakes, the fact that Shaun Harvey was seen as right man for the job just shows how unsafe the hands are that our sport is in.
You can claim its all just market forces or you can put mechanisms, robust mechanisms in place that stop the Bates, Cellinos, Oystons, and Days of this world ruining what should somehow still be a sport for the people.
The sad thing is, as others have hinted, i'm sure there's a few in a similar state.
Real shame for the fans of these clubs.
I know its a different beast, but when you see the gazillions in the PL and the money being paid for players, it's a poor state of affairs.
In the current world Harry Maguire is apparently worth the equivalent of nearly 10 Bury football clubs. Not a particularly scientific equivalent - and not a dig at Maguire particularly, but nonetheless a sad state of affairs for me.
The trouble with donating money is the fact it bails out the current owner from his responsibilities. If a precedent is set then there no stopping other owners refusing to pay players in the hope there is a fund or organisation that will sort it.
Problem is the fit and proper test can only at a snap shot in time assess whether an owner has the funds in place to run the club as a going concern. It’s impossibrl to assess whether that said person will then use those funds.
The bigger problem is the whole structure of the game and how the premier league has been allowed to grow so big. These clubs have scouts on every doorstep so the chances of a bury landing and then keeping a player at academy level to sell at a large fee are also now remote.
Options are still there.
Money needs to come down the pyramid
Stronger rules around tapping of youngsters
Maybe Cup draws could see the smallest sides drawn away at prem sides for a pay day?
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
It can be difficult to stomach a club who have been a focal point of the community for 130 years going to the wall over £8 million, when you have players in the same football pyramid being paid £15 million a year.
It’s mirrored in life though, we have those who use food banks then get evicted because the cost of living is too much, then you have Jeff Bezos whose net worth is reported to be $165 billion.
One of the issues for the likes of Bury, Bolton, Wigan, Stockport, Oldham, Macclesfield is the shadow of United and City, especially United.
People from those towns support the two biggest teams in the area, generally, and without fans your club will struggle.
Kebab, agree that safety net can invent people not to be careful and also that test is not fit for purpose hence my suggestion for stronger mechanisms.
Firstly - a far more robust test for owners, and board members.
Secondly - business plans for 3 years requiring approval
Thirdly - a fund set aside for emergency cases such as Bury whereby the league have the right to buy the club if it meets agreed emergency criteria.
Fourthly - that fund is paid for by levy on tv deal, player salaries in Prem where all the obscene money is.
Governing bodies overhauled to ensure that they are fit for purpose.
comment by BruceAndPally (U8201)
posted 2 minutes ago
It can be difficult to stomach a club who have been a focal point of the community for 130 years going to the wall over £8 million, when you have players in the same football pyramid being paid £15 million a year.
It’s mirrored in life though, we have those who use food banks then get evicted because the cost of living is too much, then you have Jeff Bezos whose net worth is reported to be $165 billion.
One of the issues for the likes of Bury, Bolton, Wigan, Stockport, Oldham, Macclesfield is the shadow of United and City, especially United.
People from those towns support the two biggest teams in the area, generally, and without fans your club will struggle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One friendly match a year could help address some financial issues.
Perhaps a deal whereby in you have a man u/city season ticket you're entitled to some sort of deal at lower league club matches
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like numbers. So I had a look.
Annual premier league wages are about 1.5billion.
1% of that is 15,000,000.
Thats annual though, not the wages for 1 week. So we need to divide that by 52 weeks.
So 1% of of premier league players wages for one single week is:
15,000,000/52 = 290,000
Thats not going to save Bury plus another 10 clubs.
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like numbers. So I had a look.
Annual premier league wages are about 1.5billion.
1% of that is 15,000,000.
Thats annual though, not the wages for 1 week. So we need to divide that by 52 weeks.
So 1% of of premier league players wages for one single week is:
15,000,000/52 = 290,000
Thats not going to save Bury plus another 10 clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah didn't remotely look into this claim, just saw it somewhere last week
Your figure sounds low though
Kebab makes a very valid point regarding clubs being accountable
Before anyone shouts I've not done any research, just sat here during a break and thinking about this stuff.
Could L1 & L2 not split into regional divisions (i.e. north and south). At least save on some travel both for clubs and fans? Those leagues have their season, then at the end the top 4 clubs from each division go into a playoffs or mini-league to see who gets promoted into the championship? A similar sort of deal for relegation?
something has to change, I reckon there's a load more will be facing similar struggles across the country.
The diehard fans from these "smaller" clubs are getting older I suspect, with the youngsters more likely to see the big local PL clubs as successful so follow them, as hinted at above.
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like numbers. So I had a look.
Annual premier league wages are about 1.5billion.
1% of that is 15,000,000.
Thats annual though, not the wages for 1 week. So we need to divide that by 52 weeks.
So 1% of of premier league players wages for one single week is:
15,000,000/52 = 290,000
Thats not going to save Bury plus another 10 clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah didn't remotely look into this claim, just saw it somewhere last week
Your figure sounds low though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm so feckin pedantic
comment by Stevie "Oso Loco" Dee (U10061)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
No shock whatsoever and there will be more to come.
Gap between elite clubs and from then on down the leagues just gets wider and wider and like any other market the smaller businesses cease to exist.
The customer finds better things to do of a Saturday even to the point of sitting at home or in the pub and watching wall to wall football one game after the other. Fwck the travel and standing in the winter months in sheite stadiums and conditions when most of our game is played.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a shock regarding theituation, more that nothing is happening to find a solution. If you were right, they'd be no clubs under the Championship tier......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There will always be clubs blow the Championship but what I am saying is that these incidences will happen more frequently.
And as they happen you can be certain that the powers that be will take very little interest. Do it with one and they'd be obliged to do it with anyone else who claims the same circumstances and then nobody has any real incentive to work within their means.
Meanwhile Sancho is now getting 119k a week and Bury's fans are without there club.
Biggest problem in football is lack of transparency. We don't know enough about what is truly going on at our clubs and we are the ones that keep it going. It's always the same - millions in admin or other costs on the accounts. Football is unlike any other industry because people put money into their businesses on loyalty not on the quality on the product. Sure the quality does affect income - good teams get high attendances etc. but as an example Leeds fans have put money into the club despite it being awful for 15 years. We are the ones who keep this 'business' running so we should be allowed to know what the finances are.
Why are Bury in so much debt? Accounts need to be transparent and open, every club needs to have fan representation in the club and part ownership to hold owners to account.
When the FFP rules came in we saw a stop to the many clubs going into administration. Sadly these rules have fallen by the wayside and once again clubs are on the edge.
23 clubs went into administration from 2007 to 2013. None from 2014 to May 2019.
Now we have 5 in danger.
Sign in if you want to comment
Bury FC
Page 1 of 2
posted on 22/8/19
I was thinking of posting something about this yesterday.
Its a sad state of affairs that we have an EFL that allows such awful owners to take charge of clubs in their leagues, there must be a better system than that at present.
Its also sad that players earn so much per week and yet clubs face these issues for relatively small sums of money.
Maybe league could look at an emergency fund that could be used to support/purchase clubs in difficulty, with a temporary team appointed until a decent owner can be found, there is surely enough money swilling around to provide funds for such an initiative. We're not talking about billions for bailing out man u, but some tens of millions for the Burys of this world.
posted on 22/8/19
You're absolutely right. I saw an interview with an ex director yesterday and then two business acquaintances raised it again this morning.
They don't appear to a single coordinated approach to this, £8 million seems like a lot but the money is clearly about. It does require the existing owner to stand aside but I can't see any reason why they wouldn't accept a reasonable offer to do so.
Such a shame.
posted on 22/8/19
No shock whatsoever and there will be more to come.
Gap between elite clubs and from then on down the leagues just gets wider and wider and like any other market the smaller businesses cease to exist.
The customer finds better things to do of a Saturday even to the point of sitting at home or in the pub and watching wall to wall football one game after the other. Fwck the travel and standing in the winter months in sheite stadiums and conditions when most of our game is played.
posted on 22/8/19
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
No shock whatsoever and there will be more to come.
Gap between elite clubs and from then on down the leagues just gets wider and wider and like any other market the smaller businesses cease to exist.
The customer finds better things to do of a Saturday even to the point of sitting at home or in the pub and watching wall to wall football one game after the other. Fwck the travel and standing in the winter months in sheite stadiums and conditions when most of our game is played.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a shock regarding theituation, more that nothing is happening to find a solution. If you were right, they'd be no clubs under the Championship tier......
posted on 22/8/19
FA Cup winners twice including the record 6-0 win only matched this year.
Yes English Football heritage being allowed to sink courtesy of our friends at the FA and Football League.
Criminal for this still to be happening in this day and age.
posted on 22/8/19
....Feel for the die hard supporters of these smaller clubs - still feel the pain of the memory of us being on the ropes.
posted on 22/8/19
Maybe league could look at an emergency fund that could be used to support/purchase clubs in difficulty
__________________________________
Why?
You'd be removing the incentive to live within your means for clubs. You could have an owner splash the cash as they chase promotion safe in the knowledge that if it all goes tiiits up then the league will bail them out. That then leads to prudent clubs being disadvantaged.
I feel sorry for the Bury fans but it is what it is. They'll be the first of many I suspect.
posted on 22/8/19
I do too
Forever indebted to Mr Bates for those times.....
posted on 22/8/19
In my experience of sport, governing bodies rarely get involved, when they are most needed, they wash their hands of doing the right thing at the coalface.
The TV deals, the golden handshakes, the fact that Shaun Harvey was seen as right man for the job just shows how unsafe the hands are that our sport is in.
You can claim its all just market forces or you can put mechanisms, robust mechanisms in place that stop the Bates, Cellinos, Oystons, and Days of this world ruining what should somehow still be a sport for the people.
posted on 22/8/19
The sad thing is, as others have hinted, i'm sure there's a few in a similar state.
Real shame for the fans of these clubs.
I know its a different beast, but when you see the gazillions in the PL and the money being paid for players, it's a poor state of affairs.
In the current world Harry Maguire is apparently worth the equivalent of nearly 10 Bury football clubs. Not a particularly scientific equivalent - and not a dig at Maguire particularly, but nonetheless a sad state of affairs for me.
posted on 22/8/19
The trouble with donating money is the fact it bails out the current owner from his responsibilities. If a precedent is set then there no stopping other owners refusing to pay players in the hope there is a fund or organisation that will sort it.
Problem is the fit and proper test can only at a snap shot in time assess whether an owner has the funds in place to run the club as a going concern. It’s impossibrl to assess whether that said person will then use those funds.
The bigger problem is the whole structure of the game and how the premier league has been allowed to grow so big. These clubs have scouts on every doorstep so the chances of a bury landing and then keeping a player at academy level to sell at a large fee are also now remote.
Options are still there.
Money needs to come down the pyramid
Stronger rules around tapping of youngsters
Maybe Cup draws could see the smallest sides drawn away at prem sides for a pay day?
posted on 22/8/19
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
posted on 22/8/19
It can be difficult to stomach a club who have been a focal point of the community for 130 years going to the wall over £8 million, when you have players in the same football pyramid being paid £15 million a year.
It’s mirrored in life though, we have those who use food banks then get evicted because the cost of living is too much, then you have Jeff Bezos whose net worth is reported to be $165 billion.
One of the issues for the likes of Bury, Bolton, Wigan, Stockport, Oldham, Macclesfield is the shadow of United and City, especially United.
People from those towns support the two biggest teams in the area, generally, and without fans your club will struggle.
posted on 22/8/19
Kebab, agree that safety net can invent people not to be careful and also that test is not fit for purpose hence my suggestion for stronger mechanisms.
Firstly - a far more robust test for owners, and board members.
Secondly - business plans for 3 years requiring approval
Thirdly - a fund set aside for emergency cases such as Bury whereby the league have the right to buy the club if it meets agreed emergency criteria.
Fourthly - that fund is paid for by levy on tv deal, player salaries in Prem where all the obscene money is.
Governing bodies overhauled to ensure that they are fit for purpose.
posted on 22/8/19
comment by BruceAndPally (U8201)
posted 2 minutes ago
It can be difficult to stomach a club who have been a focal point of the community for 130 years going to the wall over £8 million, when you have players in the same football pyramid being paid £15 million a year.
It’s mirrored in life though, we have those who use food banks then get evicted because the cost of living is too much, then you have Jeff Bezos whose net worth is reported to be $165 billion.
One of the issues for the likes of Bury, Bolton, Wigan, Stockport, Oldham, Macclesfield is the shadow of United and City, especially United.
People from those towns support the two biggest teams in the area, generally, and without fans your club will struggle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One friendly match a year could help address some financial issues.
Perhaps a deal whereby in you have a man u/city season ticket you're entitled to some sort of deal at lower league club matches
posted on 22/8/19
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like numbers. So I had a look.
Annual premier league wages are about 1.5billion.
1% of that is 15,000,000.
Thats annual though, not the wages for 1 week. So we need to divide that by 52 weeks.
So 1% of of premier league players wages for one single week is:
15,000,000/52 = 290,000
Thats not going to save Bury plus another 10 clubs.
posted on 22/8/19
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like numbers. So I had a look.
Annual premier league wages are about 1.5billion.
1% of that is 15,000,000.
Thats annual though, not the wages for 1 week. So we need to divide that by 52 weeks.
So 1% of of premier league players wages for one single week is:
15,000,000/52 = 290,000
Thats not going to save Bury plus another 10 clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah didn't remotely look into this claim, just saw it somewhere last week
Your figure sounds low though
posted on 22/8/19
Kebab makes a very valid point regarding clubs being accountable
posted on 22/8/19
Before anyone shouts I've not done any research, just sat here during a break and thinking about this stuff.
Could L1 & L2 not split into regional divisions (i.e. north and south). At least save on some travel both for clubs and fans? Those leagues have their season, then at the end the top 4 clubs from each division go into a playoffs or mini-league to see who gets promoted into the championship? A similar sort of deal for relegation?
something has to change, I reckon there's a load more will be facing similar struggles across the country.
The diehard fans from these "smaller" clubs are getting older I suspect, with the youngsters more likely to see the big local PL clubs as successful so follow them, as hinted at above.
posted on 22/8/19
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
If every pro footballer in the UK donated just 1% of their wages for just one single week then Bury would be saved and there would be enough money in the kitty to save the next 10-12 clubs that face a similar fate over the next decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like numbers. So I had a look.
Annual premier league wages are about 1.5billion.
1% of that is 15,000,000.
Thats annual though, not the wages for 1 week. So we need to divide that by 52 weeks.
So 1% of of premier league players wages for one single week is:
15,000,000/52 = 290,000
Thats not going to save Bury plus another 10 clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah didn't remotely look into this claim, just saw it somewhere last week
Your figure sounds low though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm so feckin pedantic
posted on 22/8/19
comment by Stevie "Oso Loco" Dee (U10061)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
No shock whatsoever and there will be more to come.
Gap between elite clubs and from then on down the leagues just gets wider and wider and like any other market the smaller businesses cease to exist.
The customer finds better things to do of a Saturday even to the point of sitting at home or in the pub and watching wall to wall football one game after the other. Fwck the travel and standing in the winter months in sheite stadiums and conditions when most of our game is played.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a shock regarding theituation, more that nothing is happening to find a solution. If you were right, they'd be no clubs under the Championship tier......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There will always be clubs blow the Championship but what I am saying is that these incidences will happen more frequently.
And as they happen you can be certain that the powers that be will take very little interest. Do it with one and they'd be obliged to do it with anyone else who claims the same circumstances and then nobody has any real incentive to work within their means.
posted on 22/8/19
Meanwhile Sancho is now getting 119k a week and Bury's fans are without there club.
posted on 22/8/19
Biggest problem in football is lack of transparency. We don't know enough about what is truly going on at our clubs and we are the ones that keep it going. It's always the same - millions in admin or other costs on the accounts. Football is unlike any other industry because people put money into their businesses on loyalty not on the quality on the product. Sure the quality does affect income - good teams get high attendances etc. but as an example Leeds fans have put money into the club despite it being awful for 15 years. We are the ones who keep this 'business' running so we should be allowed to know what the finances are.
Why are Bury in so much debt? Accounts need to be transparent and open, every club needs to have fan representation in the club and part ownership to hold owners to account.
posted on 22/8/19
When the FFP rules came in we saw a stop to the many clubs going into administration. Sadly these rules have fallen by the wayside and once again clubs are on the edge.
posted on 22/8/19
23 clubs went into administration from 2007 to 2013. None from 2014 to May 2019.
Now we have 5 in danger.
Page 1 of 2