comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Don't you feel that football clubs have a greater social responsibility than a supermarket?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. It’s a football club not a charitable foundation. It’s 90 minutes of escapism on a Saturday. Football clubs have been businesses for well over 4 decades now. Businesses fall by the wayside every day.
Why, in your opinion, does a football club have a greater social responsibility than a supermarket that contributes to things like obesity by the food choices it offers?
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Fair enough - I certainly don't see it that way.
I think sporting institutions in general have a big part to play in the community in many respects and that's the way it used to be before the game has become commercialised beyond recognition.
If nothing else, if the Premier League kills off it's smaller 'competition' then we're going to have a serious skills shortage in the sport for years to come, although the may argue that they can develop youth better than lower league clubs.
But for me it comes down to two things:
1. Take these clubs out of the community and you often take away more than just the first team - you take away ties with schools, youth teams and a place for young - often poor - children to be.
2. Picture a sport where we have two divisions and then non-league. What does that look like to you?
To me it looks like a sad state of affairs with many communities losing something that belongs at the heart of it.
Simply, the community is a better place for having these clubs and if the Premier League steamrollers over them because they want more and more customers, then no one wins apart from players and agents.
Winston
Whilst the work Bury FC do in the community will be missed I doubt society is going to fall apart if they go under. Plus I think young people have bigger problems, such as employment, fair pay, obesity and gambling issues (with the availability of fast food and betting shops/online betting more readily available)
Is it expected 24 clubs will go under anytime soon creating this two divisions then non league scenario you talk of?
Bolton are in as close proximity to the same number of PL clubs as Bury and are in just as much trouble at the mo. Is that down to PL clubs steamrollering or bad ownership?
Also why is supporting a PL club and attending lower league games unilateral? PL tickets are hard to come by at the NW clubs, City being the exception . Is it not possible residents of Bury can support United/City et al but still attend games at Gigg Lane every other week whilst going to Old Trafford once in a while?
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Not sure where I suggested that society would fall apart and I don't see how the fact that there are other problems in society does anything other than enhance my point.
"Is it expected 24 clubs will go under anytime soon creating this two divisions then non league scenario you talk of? "
I personally think, from what I've read, that lower league football is in real trouble and that this isn't as far fetched as it may sound.
"Also why is supporting a PL club and attending lower league games unilateral?"
Didn't say it was, but if kids are more likely to support Man City because they can watch them more easily now than before, then it is surely logical that this could lead to them caring less about their local team?
PS
"PL tickets are hard to come by at the NW clubs, City being the exception ."
Winston
I just think you’re placing too much importance on the societal impact clubs have. I’m sure if Bury go under the kids will be alright, to paraphrase The Who. Do kids nowadays place such importance on going to events outside of the match?
The football pyramid is a competitive market and the fight for rses on seats/eyes on the telly is fierce. However I think clubs, particularly lower league, aren’t just competing with PL clubs. They’re competing with the internet, computer games, on demand telly and films etc. If you’re a kid are you going to sit in the rain in January to watch a lower league club or play Call of Duty or whatever the yoof are into?
I think the point I made about Bolton is also pertinent.
They can watch City et al more easily. However most televised PL games are not in the same 3pm time slot as the vast majority of lower league games. Don’t kids nowadays support a couple of clubs? It’s not difficult to go to Gigg Lane and then watch City on telly after.
I honestly can’t see a situation where an entire division is scrapped as a result of that many clubs going under.
The case of Bury, Bolton, Blackpool et al (why all the B’s?) imo is more down to bad ownership than being steamrollered by PL clubs.
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Fair enough but I think you're overstating the impact I'm suggesting it would have.
I agree that it won't be devastating, but I do think it'd just be yet another bad thing to happen for some of the poorest in society.
And I don't disagree with the rest of what you say - but that doesn't detract, I think, that it remains logical that the PL's growth may affect lower league clubs.
I hope you're right about that last bit but the pieces I have read suggest the lower leagues are in all sorts of trouble.
I’d like to think football clubs would have a greater social responsibility but ultimately why would they? Privately owned as are supermarkets.
Is it not true Notts County helped out Juve back in the day, and when they were in trouble a few years back Juve ignored them?
http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/saveburyfc
How sad that some fans of big clubs just take the attitude that this is market forces and such is life.
I thought the football community was better than that.
Clubs are more interested in signing their next commercial partner now
Bolton, Blackpool, Charlton. There are plenty of clubs not in a fit way and it’s the regulations from the league which have ultimately failed them. As much as I’d rather see big clubs chip in for things like this than Scudamores leaving kitty, not sure why they should bail out clubs run into the ground due to the inadequacy of owners/league regs.
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 7 minutes ago
Bolton, Blackpool, Charlton. There are plenty of clubs not in a fit way and it’s the regulations from the league which have ultimately failed them. As much as I’d rather see big clubs chip in for things like this than Scudamores leaving kitty, not sure why they should bail out clubs run into the ground due to the inadequacy of owners/league regs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was pretty much what I was saying yesterday. I blame incompetent owners more than any supposed impact of PL clubs on lower league clubs for the situation clubs like Bury find themselves in.
Why I should I help the homeless guy on the street? I’ve worked hard and he obviously hasn’t. I blame the parents.
It isn’t just down to incompetent owners (although there are more than a few of those), there’s a myriad of reasons. Most lead back to the changes in allocation of match day revenue and then the formation of the PL though.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 8 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
Why I should I help the homeless guy on the street? I’ve worked hard and he obviously hasn’t. I blame the parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You shouldn't need to help them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let’s just all walk straight past then, right?
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t say it was the same.
Just drawing parallels with the attitude of some people on this thread.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 8 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
Why I should I help the homeless guy on the street? I’ve worked hard and he obviously hasn’t. I blame the parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You shouldn't need to help them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let’s just all walk straight past then, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said don't help them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 hours, 19 minutes ago
It isn’t just down to incompetent owners (although there are more than a few of those), there’s a myriad of reasons. Most lead back to the changes in allocation of match day revenue and then the formation of the PL though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree mate. First sensible comment on this post. PL has sucked the life out of football. I don't know how bad/responsible Bury owners are in all of this, but it is obvious to everyone that the financial divide between the top end and the rest is now huge. We just don't think about it because our clubs are at the top end, and won't go bust. That does not mean everyone can just turn a blind eye to a Bury situation. Will happen again, and perhaps the "have's" need to do something to protect the whole of football, not just focus on making themselves richer.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t say it was the same.
Just drawing parallels with the attitude of some people on this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit melodramatic
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t say it was the same.
Just drawing parallels with the attitude of some people on this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit melodramatic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you say so.
Sign in if you want to comment
Bury
Page 4 of 5
posted on 23/8/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Don't you feel that football clubs have a greater social responsibility than a supermarket?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really. It’s a football club not a charitable foundation. It’s 90 minutes of escapism on a Saturday. Football clubs have been businesses for well over 4 decades now. Businesses fall by the wayside every day.
Why, in your opinion, does a football club have a greater social responsibility than a supermarket that contributes to things like obesity by the food choices it offers?
posted on 23/8/19
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Fair enough - I certainly don't see it that way.
I think sporting institutions in general have a big part to play in the community in many respects and that's the way it used to be before the game has become commercialised beyond recognition.
If nothing else, if the Premier League kills off it's smaller 'competition' then we're going to have a serious skills shortage in the sport for years to come, although the may argue that they can develop youth better than lower league clubs.
But for me it comes down to two things:
1. Take these clubs out of the community and you often take away more than just the first team - you take away ties with schools, youth teams and a place for young - often poor - children to be.
2. Picture a sport where we have two divisions and then non-league. What does that look like to you?
To me it looks like a sad state of affairs with many communities losing something that belongs at the heart of it.
Simply, the community is a better place for having these clubs and if the Premier League steamrollers over them because they want more and more customers, then no one wins apart from players and agents.
posted on 23/8/19
Winston
Whilst the work Bury FC do in the community will be missed I doubt society is going to fall apart if they go under. Plus I think young people have bigger problems, such as employment, fair pay, obesity and gambling issues (with the availability of fast food and betting shops/online betting more readily available)
Is it expected 24 clubs will go under anytime soon creating this two divisions then non league scenario you talk of?
Bolton are in as close proximity to the same number of PL clubs as Bury and are in just as much trouble at the mo. Is that down to PL clubs steamrollering or bad ownership?
Also why is supporting a PL club and attending lower league games unilateral? PL tickets are hard to come by at the NW clubs, City being the exception . Is it not possible residents of Bury can support United/City et al but still attend games at Gigg Lane every other week whilst going to Old Trafford once in a while?
posted on 23/8/19
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Not sure where I suggested that society would fall apart and I don't see how the fact that there are other problems in society does anything other than enhance my point.
"Is it expected 24 clubs will go under anytime soon creating this two divisions then non league scenario you talk of? "
I personally think, from what I've read, that lower league football is in real trouble and that this isn't as far fetched as it may sound.
"Also why is supporting a PL club and attending lower league games unilateral?"
Didn't say it was, but if kids are more likely to support Man City because they can watch them more easily now than before, then it is surely logical that this could lead to them caring less about their local team?
posted on 23/8/19
PS
"PL tickets are hard to come by at the NW clubs, City being the exception ."
posted on 23/8/19
Winston
I just think you’re placing too much importance on the societal impact clubs have. I’m sure if Bury go under the kids will be alright, to paraphrase The Who. Do kids nowadays place such importance on going to events outside of the match?
The football pyramid is a competitive market and the fight for rses on seats/eyes on the telly is fierce. However I think clubs, particularly lower league, aren’t just competing with PL clubs. They’re competing with the internet, computer games, on demand telly and films etc. If you’re a kid are you going to sit in the rain in January to watch a lower league club or play Call of Duty or whatever the yoof are into?
I think the point I made about Bolton is also pertinent.
They can watch City et al more easily. However most televised PL games are not in the same 3pm time slot as the vast majority of lower league games. Don’t kids nowadays support a couple of clubs? It’s not difficult to go to Gigg Lane and then watch City on telly after.
I honestly can’t see a situation where an entire division is scrapped as a result of that many clubs going under.
The case of Bury, Bolton, Blackpool et al (why all the B’s?) imo is more down to bad ownership than being steamrollered by PL clubs.
posted on 23/8/19
FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
Fair enough but I think you're overstating the impact I'm suggesting it would have.
I agree that it won't be devastating, but I do think it'd just be yet another bad thing to happen for some of the poorest in society.
And I don't disagree with the rest of what you say - but that doesn't detract, I think, that it remains logical that the PL's growth may affect lower league clubs.
I hope you're right about that last bit but the pieces I have read suggest the lower leagues are in all sorts of trouble.
posted on 24/8/19
I’d like to think football clubs would have a greater social responsibility but ultimately why would they? Privately owned as are supermarkets.
Is it not true Notts County helped out Juve back in the day, and when they were in trouble a few years back Juve ignored them?
posted on 24/8/19
http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/saveburyfc
posted on 24/8/19
How sad that some fans of big clubs just take the attitude that this is market forces and such is life.
I thought the football community was better than that.
posted on 24/8/19
Clubs are more interested in signing their next commercial partner now
posted on 24/8/19
Bolton, Blackpool, Charlton. There are plenty of clubs not in a fit way and it’s the regulations from the league which have ultimately failed them. As much as I’d rather see big clubs chip in for things like this than Scudamores leaving kitty, not sure why they should bail out clubs run into the ground due to the inadequacy of owners/league regs.
posted on 24/8/19
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 7 minutes ago
Bolton, Blackpool, Charlton. There are plenty of clubs not in a fit way and it’s the regulations from the league which have ultimately failed them. As much as I’d rather see big clubs chip in for things like this than Scudamores leaving kitty, not sure why they should bail out clubs run into the ground due to the inadequacy of owners/league regs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was pretty much what I was saying yesterday. I blame incompetent owners more than any supposed impact of PL clubs on lower league clubs for the situation clubs like Bury find themselves in.
posted on 24/8/19
Why I should I help the homeless guy on the street? I’ve worked hard and he obviously hasn’t. I blame the parents.
posted on 24/8/19
It isn’t just down to incompetent owners (although there are more than a few of those), there’s a myriad of reasons. Most lead back to the changes in allocation of match day revenue and then the formation of the PL though.
posted on 24/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/8/19
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
posted on 25/8/19
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 8 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
Why I should I help the homeless guy on the street? I’ve worked hard and he obviously hasn’t. I blame the parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You shouldn't need to help them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let’s just all walk straight past then, right?
posted on 25/8/19
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t say it was the same.
Just drawing parallels with the attitude of some people on this thread.
posted on 25/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/8/19
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 8 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
Why I should I help the homeless guy on the street? I’ve worked hard and he obviously hasn’t. I blame the parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You shouldn't need to help them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So let’s just all walk straight past then, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never said don't help them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
posted on 25/8/19
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 hours, 19 minutes ago
It isn’t just down to incompetent owners (although there are more than a few of those), there’s a myriad of reasons. Most lead back to the changes in allocation of match day revenue and then the formation of the PL though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree mate. First sensible comment on this post. PL has sucked the life out of football. I don't know how bad/responsible Bury owners are in all of this, but it is obvious to everyone that the financial divide between the top end and the rest is now huge. We just don't think about it because our clubs are at the top end, and won't go bust. That does not mean everyone can just turn a blind eye to a Bury situation. Will happen again, and perhaps the "have's" need to do something to protect the whole of football, not just focus on making themselves richer.
posted on 25/8/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t say it was the same.
Just drawing parallels with the attitude of some people on this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit melodramatic
posted on 25/8/19
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Lol I don’t think a football club folding is quite the same a helping a less fortunate human being. If anything Prem clubs should be helping the homeless before they help other clubs 🤓
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t say it was the same.
Just drawing parallels with the attitude of some people on this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit melodramatic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you say so.
posted on 25/8/19
Have you donated?
Page 4 of 5