Arsenal did it the whole of last season tbf. They were often played off the park but still came close to a top 4 finish due to the quality of their attackers. They've started this season no differently
The fact Man are 2nd in the league on expected points and have the best defence on expected goals against Robb shows Solskjaer as a manager is doing a great job. It's the players fault we have failed to win. Interesting to see since Solskjaer came in we consistently have easily higher expected goals than the opposition.
In Mourinho last campaign we kept having similar expected goals to the opposition and the previous season we were extremely lucky to get 2nd. Now we transformed ourselves back to a top team conceding a lot fewer chances and creating more.
Emery on other hand as well as Poch completely regressed last season on the previous season and are getting even more worse this season. Luck can only get you so far. The best teams usually dominate. Some teams can fluke a season but in long run get found out.
A top forward(s) can cover a multitude of sins. Look at Chelsea as well with Hazard. Or Liverpool before Klopp fixed the defence.
Spurs have loads of goals in them Hafi. They just smashed Palace 4-0 - we lost to them and generally looked clueless
And Arsenal just went to Frankfurt and against a tough team won 3-0 and could have scored many more.
Unless we find a way to match the goals that Arsenal and Spurs will score this season we’ll massively struggle for top 4. We should have bought Auba all those years ago
We should have signed Lewandowski instead of RVP.
Expected points expected goals.
Mean absolutely Fack all.
They don’t mean fack all, but they don’t give a complete reflection of a match either.
We created a boat load of chances today, we missed so many sitters but I’m happy the kids were able to penetrate the bus at least.
Rashford could have taken the pressure off of the younger players by finishing his chances but the positive is the youngsters didn’t panic.
Tuanzebe was solid and is ready like the OP says, Gomes and Greenwood need more cameos and another 90 minutes against Rochdale. Chong needs a loan move. Gomes is so comfortable on the ball and played well between the lines. Greenwood needs to play in the box which means he needs to be moved more centrally.
Fred my MOTM
Fred vs FC Astana:
Most touches (155)
Most passes (128)
Highest pass completion (94%)
Most recoveries (15)
Most long passes (11)
Most chances created (3)
One assist
Rashford could have taken the pressure off of the younger players by finishing his chances but the positive is the youngsters didn’t panic.
———
This right here sums up exactly where our problems lie. Rashford is 21 and we are saying this about him.
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
Rashford could have taken the pressure off of the younger players by finishing his chances but the positive is the youngsters didn’t panic.
———
This right here sums up exactly where our problems lie. Rashford is 21 and we are saying this about him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s been playing long enough to be able to finish off one of a few sitters. I say this as one of his biggest supporters. I’ll give him time with his development in decision making but he’s been a pro for a very long time and those chances should have been finished.
He should be doing better I agree. But the point I’m getting at is that he’s still youngster himself, but we’re relying in him like a senior player. I have sympathy for Rashford and Martial in this regard.
Robb if you watched that Palace match then you would have seen about 88mins attacking by Man Utd creating the chances and missing then. Palace went past half way line 4 times and scored 2 goals. Spurs 4-0 palace expected goals 1.05 vs Palace 0.58. Man Utd 1-2 Palace game 2.24 vs 0.68 for Palace. So we created over twice as many expected goals as Spurs who won 4-0.
Spurs are just insanely efficient. Man City 3.23 expected goals vs 0.07 for Tottenham. Finished 2-2. The thing about football is you can be a really bad team like Spurs and Arsenal have been 2 of the worst teams in England but if you are lucky at both ends then you can get a result. Just like we have failed to beat Burnley last 3 home games at OT despite deserving to thrash them in all 3 games. Football is one of the few sports you can be extremely lucky and unlucky consistently. Remember Mourinho 1st season at OT, one of the lowest ever win records and goals scored at home records in our history but stats suggest one of our highest shots recorded season at home and very few against.
Hafi, being efficient is a good thing.
Missing chances, missing penalties etc doesn’t mean you’re good or you deserve to win games. It’s a sign that you’re not good enough to win games.
If we're going to get into the montonous xg argument, then there needs to be an awareness that the quality of forwards isn't taken into account in the calculation. I constantly hear supposedly expert pundits reference Liverpool finishing 12-15 goals a season up on xG and calling it fortunate. As a one off, it can be. On a consistent basis it's just due to them having significantly better than average finishers in their team, and that's not factored in.
xG against is a better barometer of any good fortune imo, as you all come up against the same strikers over the course of the season.
Taken from another site .. (before the Leicester game)
According to xG measurers Understat, Man United’s xG is being inflated by the number of penalties (3) they’ve been awarded so far this season. They are actually outperforming their xG in open play, which stands at 4.52, while six real life goals scored from this situation.
This isn’t to say that creating situations where penalties are awarded is more down to luck than good play, but the 0.76 xG value assigned to a penalty kick is rarely as high as the chance which would have been created were there no foul.
Cutting through the xG spiel, this means that, if anything, Man United have been slightly lucky in open play rather than unlucky, and if they are going to judge bad luck based on missed penalties, then maybe they should have clearer instructions as to who should be taking them
Robb my point is Spurs are playing garbage like Arsenal consistently. We are on the other hand are playing like a title winning side. Would you prefer us to concede another 20 chances per game like Spurs and Arsenal and create fewer chances and see we fluke a few results and say all is fine? We are ahead of the current leaders Liverpool on expected points which means structurally Solskjaer got us near perfect. Now its upto the players to not let us down.
If we're going to get into the montonous xg argument, then there needs to be an awareness that the quality of forwards isn't taken into account in the calculation.
———
Yep this is the problem with it. It can reveal some things about a team’s ability to create good chances, or stop teams creating them, but it’s not exactly empirical. But this is Hafi we’re dealing with.
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 10 seconds ago
Robb my point is Spurs are playing garbage like Arsenal consistently. We are on the other hand are playing like a title winning side. Would you prefer us to concede another 20 chances per game like Spurs and Arsenal and create fewer chances and see we fluke a few results and say all is fine? We are ahead of the current leaders Liverpool on expected points which means structurally Solskjaer got us near perfect. Now its upto the players to not let us down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 Go to bed Hafi
Nor the keepers with xG. There are chances you’d expect to score against Karius that you wouldn’t against an in form De Gea, for example.
We still had higher expected goals than the opponent in all our games this season. Spurs and Arsenal are struggling to match the opposition this season which is a sign of a midtable side.
comment by Robb - Steve Smith = Legend 🏏🏆 (U21234)
posted 5 hours, 26 minutes ago
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 10 seconds ago
Robb my point is Spurs are playing garbage like Arsenal consistently. We are on the other hand are playing like a title winning side. Would you prefer us to concede another 20 chances per game like Spurs and Arsenal and create fewer chances and see we fluke a few results and say all is fine? We are ahead of the current leaders Liverpool on expected points which means structurally Solskjaer got us near perfect. Now its upto the players to not let us down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 Go to bed Hafi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you be ahead of us on expected points? Whatever rubbish that is
We are 5 from 5 and can’t have any more points you deluded lunatic
People are being harsh on Rashford. He hasn't spent that much time up front the past 24 months and if you look at the chances he missed last night, he shown great anticipation and movement to even get on the end of them.
https://understat.com/league/EPL
We deserved more points than Liverpool as we deserved to win every league game.
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Page 2 of 3
posted on 19/9/19
Arsenal did it the whole of last season tbf. They were often played off the park but still came close to a top 4 finish due to the quality of their attackers. They've started this season no differently
posted on 19/9/19
Yep Mason 👍
posted on 19/9/19
The fact Man are 2nd in the league on expected points and have the best defence on expected goals against Robb shows Solskjaer as a manager is doing a great job. It's the players fault we have failed to win. Interesting to see since Solskjaer came in we consistently have easily higher expected goals than the opposition.
In Mourinho last campaign we kept having similar expected goals to the opposition and the previous season we were extremely lucky to get 2nd. Now we transformed ourselves back to a top team conceding a lot fewer chances and creating more.
Emery on other hand as well as Poch completely regressed last season on the previous season and are getting even more worse this season. Luck can only get you so far. The best teams usually dominate. Some teams can fluke a season but in long run get found out.
posted on 19/9/19
A top forward(s) can cover a multitude of sins. Look at Chelsea as well with Hazard. Or Liverpool before Klopp fixed the defence.
posted on 19/9/19
Spurs have loads of goals in them Hafi. They just smashed Palace 4-0 - we lost to them and generally looked clueless
And Arsenal just went to Frankfurt and against a tough team won 3-0 and could have scored many more.
Unless we find a way to match the goals that Arsenal and Spurs will score this season we’ll massively struggle for top 4. We should have bought Auba all those years ago
posted on 20/9/19
We should have signed Lewandowski instead of RVP.
posted on 20/9/19
Expected points expected goals.
Mean absolutely Fack all.
posted on 20/9/19
They don’t mean fack all, but they don’t give a complete reflection of a match either.
posted on 20/9/19
We created a boat load of chances today, we missed so many sitters but I’m happy the kids were able to penetrate the bus at least.
Rashford could have taken the pressure off of the younger players by finishing his chances but the positive is the youngsters didn’t panic.
Tuanzebe was solid and is ready like the OP says, Gomes and Greenwood need more cameos and another 90 minutes against Rochdale. Chong needs a loan move. Gomes is so comfortable on the ball and played well between the lines. Greenwood needs to play in the box which means he needs to be moved more centrally.
Fred my MOTM
Fred vs FC Astana:
Most touches (155)
Most passes (128)
Highest pass completion (94%)
Most recoveries (15)
Most long passes (11)
Most chances created (3)
One assist
posted on 20/9/19
Rashford could have taken the pressure off of the younger players by finishing his chances but the positive is the youngsters didn’t panic.
———
This right here sums up exactly where our problems lie. Rashford is 21 and we are saying this about him.
posted on 20/9/19
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
Rashford could have taken the pressure off of the younger players by finishing his chances but the positive is the youngsters didn’t panic.
———
This right here sums up exactly where our problems lie. Rashford is 21 and we are saying this about him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s been playing long enough to be able to finish off one of a few sitters. I say this as one of his biggest supporters. I’ll give him time with his development in decision making but he’s been a pro for a very long time and those chances should have been finished.
posted on 20/9/19
He should be doing better I agree. But the point I’m getting at is that he’s still youngster himself, but we’re relying in him like a senior player. I have sympathy for Rashford and Martial in this regard.
posted on 20/9/19
Robb if you watched that Palace match then you would have seen about 88mins attacking by Man Utd creating the chances and missing then. Palace went past half way line 4 times and scored 2 goals. Spurs 4-0 palace expected goals 1.05 vs Palace 0.58. Man Utd 1-2 Palace game 2.24 vs 0.68 for Palace. So we created over twice as many expected goals as Spurs who won 4-0.
posted on 20/9/19
Spurs are just insanely efficient. Man City 3.23 expected goals vs 0.07 for Tottenham. Finished 2-2. The thing about football is you can be a really bad team like Spurs and Arsenal have been 2 of the worst teams in England but if you are lucky at both ends then you can get a result. Just like we have failed to beat Burnley last 3 home games at OT despite deserving to thrash them in all 3 games. Football is one of the few sports you can be extremely lucky and unlucky consistently. Remember Mourinho 1st season at OT, one of the lowest ever win records and goals scored at home records in our history but stats suggest one of our highest shots recorded season at home and very few against.
posted on 20/9/19
Hafi, being efficient is a good thing.
Missing chances, missing penalties etc doesn’t mean you’re good or you deserve to win games. It’s a sign that you’re not good enough to win games.
posted on 20/9/19
If we're going to get into the montonous xg argument, then there needs to be an awareness that the quality of forwards isn't taken into account in the calculation. I constantly hear supposedly expert pundits reference Liverpool finishing 12-15 goals a season up on xG and calling it fortunate. As a one off, it can be. On a consistent basis it's just due to them having significantly better than average finishers in their team, and that's not factored in.
xG against is a better barometer of any good fortune imo, as you all come up against the same strikers over the course of the season.
posted on 20/9/19
Taken from another site .. (before the Leicester game)
According to xG measurers Understat, Man United’s xG is being inflated by the number of penalties (3) they’ve been awarded so far this season. They are actually outperforming their xG in open play, which stands at 4.52, while six real life goals scored from this situation.
This isn’t to say that creating situations where penalties are awarded is more down to luck than good play, but the 0.76 xG value assigned to a penalty kick is rarely as high as the chance which would have been created were there no foul.
Cutting through the xG spiel, this means that, if anything, Man United have been slightly lucky in open play rather than unlucky, and if they are going to judge bad luck based on missed penalties, then maybe they should have clearer instructions as to who should be taking them
posted on 20/9/19
Robb my point is Spurs are playing garbage like Arsenal consistently. We are on the other hand are playing like a title winning side. Would you prefer us to concede another 20 chances per game like Spurs and Arsenal and create fewer chances and see we fluke a few results and say all is fine? We are ahead of the current leaders Liverpool on expected points which means structurally Solskjaer got us near perfect. Now its upto the players to not let us down.
posted on 20/9/19
If we're going to get into the montonous xg argument, then there needs to be an awareness that the quality of forwards isn't taken into account in the calculation.
———
Yep this is the problem with it. It can reveal some things about a team’s ability to create good chances, or stop teams creating them, but it’s not exactly empirical. But this is Hafi we’re dealing with.
posted on 20/9/19
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 10 seconds ago
Robb my point is Spurs are playing garbage like Arsenal consistently. We are on the other hand are playing like a title winning side. Would you prefer us to concede another 20 chances per game like Spurs and Arsenal and create fewer chances and see we fluke a few results and say all is fine? We are ahead of the current leaders Liverpool on expected points which means structurally Solskjaer got us near perfect. Now its upto the players to not let us down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 Go to bed Hafi
posted on 20/9/19
Nor the keepers with xG. There are chances you’d expect to score against Karius that you wouldn’t against an in form De Gea, for example.
posted on 20/9/19
We still had higher expected goals than the opponent in all our games this season. Spurs and Arsenal are struggling to match the opposition this season which is a sign of a midtable side.
posted on 20/9/19
comment by Robb - Steve Smith = Legend 🏏🏆 (U21234)
posted 5 hours, 26 minutes ago
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 10 seconds ago
Robb my point is Spurs are playing garbage like Arsenal consistently. We are on the other hand are playing like a title winning side. Would you prefer us to concede another 20 chances per game like Spurs and Arsenal and create fewer chances and see we fluke a few results and say all is fine? We are ahead of the current leaders Liverpool on expected points which means structurally Solskjaer got us near perfect. Now its upto the players to not let us down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 Go to bed Hafi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you be ahead of us on expected points? Whatever rubbish that is
We are 5 from 5 and can’t have any more points you deluded lunatic
posted on 20/9/19
People are being harsh on Rashford. He hasn't spent that much time up front the past 24 months and if you look at the chances he missed last night, he shown great anticipation and movement to even get on the end of them.
posted on 20/9/19
https://understat.com/league/EPL
We deserved more points than Liverpool as we deserved to win every league game.
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