comment by Robb : Time for a change (U21234)
posted 38 seconds ago

comment by Football Club not PLC Glazers out (U22256)
posted 45 seconds ago
A combination of both, bit of a cop out really, that!? But what you are saying now is that this is now soley Ole and not any the players? Strange?
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I’m sure it is some of the players too. But if you lose the players like Jose did and other managers have there is no way back
……………………………………
Well, there is! You back the manager, sell the trouble makers and evolve, which is what he is doing! The common themes through the JM and Ole era are the ownership and the players. Not good enough. Common theme over 6 years is constant change and spineless leadership from the top. we have to be brave now.

Comedy gold this...

comment by Football Club not PLC Glazers out (U22256)
posted 2 minutes ago
Shinjury, already said it. NO Fellaini, No Sanchez, Young not a starter, defence better. We can all now say for certain Rashford is no Striker yes, its a long overhaul needed!
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So he's gotten rid of:

Fellaini - not being funny but any manager can see he is not fit for purpose at United. Hardly warrants a line on Ole's CV.

Lukaku & Sanchez - did he get rid or did they want out? I've got a feeling it's the latter. So again, can hardly give him credence for that.

Rashford is not a striker? What??? Wait a minute? We cant judge Ole after 8 games, because he's a young manager, but we can judge Rashford after the same amount of time? Hmmm.

New Signings - again, if we have come to the conclusion that Ole's signings are good, even though we're less than a quarter of the season deep, surely we can judge Ole, especially as he's had previous matches also, unlike the new signings.

So either we can judge Ole after 8 games, in which case he should lose his head faster than Ned Stark.

Or

We can't judge Ole yet, in which case surely we can't judge his signings or whether Rashford is a striker, in which case that leaves the positives as:

- He sold Fellaini and Valencia

- Lukaku and Sanchez wanted to leave when they realised he was clueless?

"- Lukaku and Sanchez wanted to leave when they realised he was clueless?"

Lukaku wanted to leave because he was a guaranteed starter.

Sanchez never settled and nothing he tried worked. He did try when on the pitch to be fair to him, but he made little no no effort with his teammates.

"Lukaku wanted to leave because he was a guaranteed starter."

wasn't

I think this point needs making again.

We as a club are in a mess. The playing squad is not good enough, it has poor players on big money and pre-summer had an issue with age as well. I think we're all in agreement there.

In my opinion, we have three options with management:

1. Bring in a proven manager who will want to achieve results in the short term. This would most likely mean throwing hundreds of millions at players who offer instant improvement - possibly getting us to a point where we're the 3rd best team in the league and leaving us with huge wages and probably players the wrong side of 26/27.

2. Bring in a manager who can get better results with a weak squad - the Sam Allardyce approach. Sell off the overpaid crap and work with what you've got... probably get us finishing around 6th but with no real long term plan or desire to develop a style of play or players that we as fans want.

3. Bring in the fall guy. A manager who will do a lot of what is needed and potentially take the fall for the poor results this initially brings. That is Ole.

I personally don't feel it's possible to have the clear out that is necessary, change the long term outlook of the club and develop some of the youngsters without the short term pain.

I would agree that this short term pain shouldn't include a relegation battle, of course. It shouldn't even include a bottom half finish. But after 8 league games, it's too soon to say whether either of those will materialise.

We're 3 months into a project that will take at least 18 months to start seeing the benefit of, imo.

It could all go wrong. If it does, we'll be left with a young squad that can be added to.

I'd far rather that than just going after a short term fix so that we can get ourselves competing for the top four - with no real thought about how we as a club reach the heights that Liverpool are hitting right now.

Don't agree?

That's fine. But don't call this blind faith. It's a logical, credible view and one that is based on decades of supporting United.

Fair enough Pride I'll give you the Lukaku one

comment by Shinjury list (U1700)
posted 4 seconds ago

comment by Football Club not PLC Glazers out (U22256)
posted 2 minutes ago
Shinjury, already said it. NO Fellaini, No Sanchez, Young not a starter, defence better. We can all now say for certain Rashford is no Striker yes, its a long overhaul needed!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So he's gotten rid of:

1) Fellaini - not being funny but any manager can see he is not fit for purpose at United. Hardly warrants a line on Ole's CV.

2) Lukaku & Sanchez - did he get rid or did they want out? I've got a feeling it's the latter. So again, can hardly give him credence for that.

3) Rashford is not a striker? What??? Wait a minute? We cant judge Ole after 8 games, because he's a young manager, but we can judge Rashford after the same amount of time? Hmmm.

4)New Signings - again, if we have come to the conclusion that Ole's signings are good, even though we're less than a quarter of the season deep, surely we can judge Ole, especially as he's had previous matches also, unlike the new signings.

So either we can judge Ole after 8 games, in which case he should lose his head faster than Ned Stark.

Or

We can't judge Ole yet, in which case surely we can't judge his signings or whether Rashford is a striker, in which case that leaves the positives as:

- He sold Fellaini and Valencia

- Lukaku and Sanchez wanted to leave when they realised he was clueless?
……………………….
No, no no.

1) Moyes, LVG, JM played even relied on Fellaini, as you are well aware, so actually "not being funny" think it probably is worthy of mention.

2) Sanchez has been dire for us, you know this, on huuuuuge wages, everyone wanted him out, another bad signing by the club! Lukaku wanted out for whatever reason, but the fact he wanted to go means he had to be sold, I note that it wasn't a chuffing conga line going out the door out of choice!

3) if you look at the runs Rashford isn't making in the box you will see he isn't a striker. excellent wide attacker and a first team player not an out and out striker a scorer of great goals not a great goal scorer...
4) they are good though, HM is better than anything else we had at centre back, I don't hear many saying AWB was a bad choice at RB. Young english prospect proven over a full season at the top level - yes it is a bit of a gamble, given it was only 1 season... again it is that time thing we speak of, but he has huge potential, and that was the thinking behind 2 of the transfers, all being british was the other theme.

3. Bring in the fall guy. A manager who will do a lot of what is needed and potentially take the fall for the poor results this initially brings. That is Ole.

I personally don't feel it's possible to have the clear out that is necessary, change the long term outlook of the club and develop some of the youngsters without the short term pain.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 minutes ago

"- Lukaku and Sanchez wanted to leave when they realised he was clueless?"

Lukaku wanted to leave because he was a guaranteed starter.

Sanchez never settled and nothing he tried worked. He did try when on the pitch to be fair to him, but he made little no no effort with his teammates.
Reply | Add Comment | Complain | Share
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 minutes ago

"Lukaku wanted to leave because he was a guaranteed starter."

wasn't
Reply | Add Comment | Complain | Share


Winston and Pride of the North speaking sense...

Bringing in a new manager now is solely to try and get that 'new manager bounce' to avoid a catastrophic season. There will be no long term plan with it at all.

Under the current structure, it is going to go pear shaped for any new manager down the line.

comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 50 seconds ago

Bringing in a new manager now is solely to try and get that 'new manager bounce' to avoid a catastrophic season. There will be no long term plan with it at all.

Under the current structure, it is going to go pear shaped for any new manager down the line.

…….
Absolutely this.

comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 13 minutes ago
"Lukaku wanted to leave because he was a guaranteed starter."

wasn't
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Freudian slip...

comment by Shinjury list (U1700)
posted 37 minutes ago
So can we address the positives of Ole's tenure and not the negatives ffs.

(Robb and Liverpool fans, this isn't aimed at you for the moment)

So from what I've read, positives are definitely transfers. He's got rid of some players and also brought in some good signings.

Is that correct.
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Is that a positive? You clearly needed midfielders, you had £150m to spend. You spent half of it on a centre back, where you had four experienced internationals. The rest on a right back and a potential player from the Championship. This whilst you lost a couple of midfielders, a forward and a striker. Then some people are surprised you're struggling for goals. Of course you are, you took goals away and replaced it with a centre back, a right back and a young winger with potential.

That's poor management. The manager has made you worse. In less than a year. Imagine what he can do with another year. Unfortunately he's not gonna get that chance.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think this point needs making again.

We as a club are in a mess. The playing squad is not good enough, it has poor players on big money and pre-summer had an issue with age as well. I think we're all in agreement there.

In my opinion, we have three options with management:

1. Bring in a proven manager who will want to achieve results in the short term. This would most likely mean throwing hundreds of millions at players who offer instant improvement - possibly getting us to a point where we're the 3rd best team in the league and leaving us with huge wages and probably players the wrong side of 26/27.

2. Bring in a manager who can get better results with a weak squad - the Sam Allardyce approach. Sell off the overpaid crap and work with what you've got... probably get us finishing around 6th but with no real long term plan or desire to develop a style of play or players that we as fans want.

3. Bring in the fall guy. A manager who will do a lot of what is needed and potentially take the fall for the poor results this initially brings. That is Ole.

I personally don't feel it's possible to have the clear out that is necessary, change the long term outlook of the club and develop some of the youngsters without the short term pain.

I would agree that this short term pain shouldn't include a relegation battle, of course. It shouldn't even include a bottom half finish. But after 8 league games, it's too soon to say whether either of those will materialise.

We're 3 months into a project that will take at least 18 months to start seeing the benefit of, imo.

It could all go wrong. If it does, we'll be left with a young squad that can be added to.

I'd far rather that than just going after a short term fix so that we can get ourselves competing for the top four - with no real thought about how we as a club reach the heights that Liverpool are hitting right now.

Don't agree?

That's fine. But don't call this blind faith. It's a logical, credible view and one that is based on decades of supporting United.
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This. I would add to this that the club since Moyes didn't qualify for the CL has panicked and has simply strived for CL qualification in the proceeding years. Where under Fergie this was taken for granted. The scatter gun approach to transfers, particularly after a year of not qualifying for the CL would be evidence of this panic. We are not built to compete. Short term pain in order to start to be able to compete again is inevitable, whether that is with Ole or not.

The problem wasn’t getting rid of Lukaku - it was not replacing him and Ole has already come out and said he was happy to go into this season with his striking options

2 league goals since August shows that folly

I actually agree that it's not worth changing the manager based on results but I also find this reductive and tbh naive.

What's not being taken into account is the dressing room and its actually this that gets managers the boot just as often as results.

I said all the way back last season, when I predicted this would happen with his set up (which imo has been found out) that if players stop believing in his methods then he's in trouble.

I dont think Jose got sacked solely on results. Nor LVG. Nor Moyes.

comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 39 seconds ago
I actually agree that it's not worth changing the manager based on results but I also find this reductive and tbh naive.

What's not being taken into account is the dressing room and its actually this that gets managers the boot just as often as results.

I said all the way back last season, when I predicted this would happen with his set up (which imo has been found out) that if players stop believing in his methods then he's in trouble.

I dont think Jose got sacked solely on results. Nor LVG. Nor Moyes.
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Very much this

It’s naive to think the players like Pogba don’t have a huge say in who comes and goes. Rightly or wrongly, Ed and the owners probably think it’s easier to change managers than a whole team

And if that manager was a huge punt to begin with, there’s no point continuing with a guy who is clearly out of his depth

comment by Robb : Time for a change (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
The problem wasn’t getting rid of Lukaku - it was not replacing him and Ole has already come out and said he was happy to go into this season with his striking options

2 league goals since August shows that folly
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Ole also said he is one striker short of what he would like.

"The manager has made you worse. In less than a year. Imagine what he can do with another year."

This is unbelievably stupid.

The point of carry on with him would be toride it out until more changes can be made, I do get that.

We'll get a pretty good indication of the dressing room when we play each other. If to a man the players are leaving it all out on the pitch then theyre still with the manager.

Yeah Mubai Martial I do agree with you, this needs to be be cut right back to start again after such an amazing period of success, it is what Moyes should have been afforded really. We can't change the past but we now, better late than never, need to learn from it.

There's a big building near me that is very old and I think is structurally unsound now.

Developers moved in last month and you should see the mess they've made of it. There's rubble everywhere.

If this is the mess they've made in two months, imagine the mess they'll make in a year.

DEVELOPERS OUT

That's possibly the worst analogy Ive ever read

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
There's a big building near me that is very old and I think is structurally unsound now.

Developers moved in last month and you should see the mess they've made of it. There's rubble everywhere.

If this is the mess they've made in two months, imagine the mess they'll make in a year.

DEVELOPERS OUT
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comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 4 minutes ago
That's possibly the worst analogy Ive ever read
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Why's that?

You have to make a bit of a mess to undergo a major rebuilding programme.

Anyone surprised that this season is not a great one for United must be naive in the extreme.

Is it worse than we expected? Probably, but it's early days.